Why would the DT not use a mental defense?

[Broderick]

Killers aren't insane, especially the ones that plan and are evil. They know right from wrong. They are just evil. If we start categorizing every killer that is a psychopath or sociopath as having mental illness our jails will be a lot thinner - but the hospitals will be full. You can't fix evil.

 

[Marple]

Keep in mind that people who lie a lot will play dumb when caught in an inconsistency and can often get the reputation as an "airhead" or as "forgetful" if not outright stupid.

The sociopath in my life, when questioned about an inconsistency says, "Oh, I'm sorry. You must have misunderstood." And if pressed that no, I did not misunderstand, he says, "I'm sorry. I must have miscommunicated what I was saying."

ETA: This particular socio is a former coworker who drove everyone batty before he was unceremoniously dumped by the company for doing sneaky and underhanded things for SPORT. The key word being SPORT. It's a cat/mouse game for sociopaths to see what they can get away with.

 

[kathyn2]

Casey is not crazy. She is evil. Pure and simple. A bad seed as in the movie from the 1960s. Very scary but not crazy. She knows exactly what she does and she knows right from wrong but she has no conscience, only thinks of herself and has no feelings for anyone else. She enjoys pulling things over on people. Her parents didn't teach her to lie. She made an art form out of it and her whole family fell for it hook, line and sinker. They all walked on eggshells around her so poor Casey wouldn't get upset. She ruled the roost. I wonder how the heck that Baez thought he was going to pull this defense off on these jurors? Its so apparent what she is. I wonder if Baez is going to spend his life trying to save this woman who is just evil? I can just see him spending years trying to get her out of jail or off death row. The prosecution has shown that this woman tried to use every single person she knew and was evil to them to. I wish they could have shown them she was a thief etc. Now I just pray the State can prove that she murdered her baby that she no longer wanted or needed.

 

[onamission]

Hi all

FWIW and my little ole :twocents: ... Perhaps the DT won't use mental issues as a defense ... simply b/c KC may have just been another irresponsible, reckless, unreliable teen in the run-up to her pregnancy?

Maybe KC was used to 'fibbing' from the moment she could string 2 words together; those grew into "tales" in pre-school years; as a child she may have become used to her broad smile winning people over ... with an "angelic look" to melt hearts ... and the customary fibs grew into bigger, wilder stories as a teen ... and all the while, KC's stories brought her added attraction and attention ... and lies became her crutch.

Until ... her totally self-centered lifestyle caught up with her. This crime was (in KC's mind) one little "whooops" of a dispose-and-hide that exploded into a monumental story ... and became waayyyyy "too much" for even KC's typically fabricated and embellished lifestyle could manage.

Maybe KC's just a totally spoiled brat - never been anchored in life; always forgiven, pandered to, believed & supported - to such a heightened degree ... that KC has to this day, never grasped responsibility. Perhaps she never will, either. Until, of course, her audience and demographic completely changes. Then, and only then, may we see KC crying "victim". Right now her head may actually genuinely remain in "I'm gonna get outta this and be forgiven for a naughty lil ole lie.. and a big mistake" mode?

Essentially: there may be absolutely nothing mentally wrong whatsoever with KC - as many have also alluded to. KC may just have been in front of too many cameras all her life. To her it's the face & fun, not the person & reality, that really counts.

Crying shame; shocking role model; heinous crime - the wake-up call is but around the corner, methinks.

I could not agree more, KC has never been held accountable for her bad deeds, she is a spoiled brat who thinks that she is insurmountable. A few weeks with no car, no phone or other consequences (imposed upon her as a teen) may have had an impact instead she now faces the ultimate punishment.

 

[Marple]

I always wonder what would have happened if the Cowboy hadn't swooped into Orlando and posted her bond. I think the lie would have stopped if she'd just had to sit there a while longer. JMHO

 

[kaRN]

She doesn't have a treatable or diagnosable mental illness and she knows the difference between right and wrong so no insanity defense for ICA. Mercy will keep her off death row and free to mingle with all the other sociopaths.

 

[miss plum]

They would have just mucked up a mental defense anyway:

"Since my client was six years old, or was she fourteen, no she was defintely eight, she has been a 'Biped' I mean she has been 'Bipolar' and A-ha! that why she seems as cold as the North and South Poles, I rest my case."

 

[BD1]

If I was on the jury I'd really hope to hear from a shrink as to her mental state. I'd be really, really wondering right about now just what her deal was.

 

[krkrjx]

If I was on the jury I'd really hope to hear from a shrink as to her mental state. I'd be really, really wondering right about now just what her deal was.

Same here. I would be thinking what much of the rest of the nation is thinking...that KC must be crazy. And I think right about now DT hopes like crazy (no pun) to get a mistrial declared so they can change their defense into one that includes mental illness. I am not sure KC would automatically win on a mental defense but I bet jurors are wondering why DT didn't go that way.

 

[Kreeblim]

I always wonder what would have happened if the Cowboy hadn't swooped into Orlando and posted her bond. I think the lie would have stopped if she'd just had to sit there a while longer. JMHO

She's sat for years now and she still doubled down on the bull.

 

[1Chump]

I hope I am doing this right, knowing everything that's out there for the jury to see and hear, why in the world would the defense not use a mental defense? I feel this was a big big mistake that they have made. Does anyone agree?

For a mental defense, Casey would have to admit to killing Caylee.

 

[sweetmop]

This is strictly personal. My husband is psychopathic narcissist. In my 15 years of therapy. I have been told this isn't a MENTAL disease. It's a personal choice.. Not sure I agree but I've been told repeatedly it is not a disease, they know right from wrong and CHOOSE wrong. 27 years with a man like this ...I'm thinking more and more the Dr's are right. He isn't ill he's evil.
MOO

Dear gngr~snap, God bless you.

 

[sweetmop]

The only reason I can think of for the defense to propose a sexual abuse victim theory (a form of diminished capacity) and refuse to present psychological testing is because the tests are seriously unfavorable for the defendant.

Exactly! They probably labeled her as a sociopath!:maddening:

 

[sweetmop]

Killers aren't insane, especially the ones that plan and are evil. They know right from wrong. They are just evil. If we start categorizing every killer that is a psychopath or sociopath as having mental illness our jails will be a lot thinner - but the hospitals will be full. You can't fix evil.

Oh, I sooooo agree with this!!!

 

[costalpilot]

For a mental defense, Casey would have to admit to killing Caylee.

bingo. i was wondering, but THAT is the anser

but they could have if she had said it was an accident and my "mental state" prevented me from admitting it for so long (right?)

and, imo, that may have really worked for the jury----but she couldnt do it.

WILL NOT ADMIT to anything that might even remotely make her look bad

imo

 

[NocturnalLady]

The reason that the defense is not using a mental health defense is fairly simple and can be found in the Motion in Limine as to Testimony of Mental Health Experts filed by Jeff Ashton, where he states: The reports do not diagnose the defendant as suffering from any clinical or personality disorders as recognized by the American Psychiatric Association.

So if she does not suffer from any recognized disorders, her defense cannot raise any mental health defenses.

Thanks. I missed that somehow.

My question is - can the defense doctor shop for a psychiatrist that will say whatever they want? Or is it the case that any doctor that sees Casey will produce a report which will then be available to the prosecution as well as part of discovery? I think the doctor's report does not become discovery unless the defense wants to use it in the case, correct? So if the defense got a doctor that came up with a diagnosis that the defense did not want made public could they ever toss that report aside in favor of a report they liked? Or do ALL doctor reports come into discovery even if the defense only wanted to use certain ones?

Hope I'm making sense there. I'm just shocked that Casey has not been diagnosed with any disorder when it seems so clear that SOMETHING is wrong with her. My immediate response is to think that whatever doctor the DT hired is about as good as the rest of their "experts" and they just missed whatever is wrong with Casey. That just seems more likely than the idea that nothing is wrong with her!

 

[NocturnalLady]

She's sat for years now and she still doubled down on the bull.

Agree - she's definitely an "all in" kind of gal.

 

[USARDOG]

Both the lawyer and the client share similar personality traits that let them think they can pull off anything. In addition there was a lot of fame and fortune to be made from this case and it appealed to both.

 

[Leomoon80]

I haven't read all these many posts on any of these threads, yet I know from the tone of other threads I've been on, that the majority of people wish to see Casey dead, in retaliation of her daughter's death, i.e. the Death Penalty.

I find this immensely sad as the human condition in the U.S. seems to be as in the Middle East, or "an eye for an eye" Retribution.

There is no doubt and never has been for me, that Casey is mentally ill.

We need only look at her fantasy life, all contrived as well as the so-called evidence of "heart stickers" which personally, I think she did put on the duct tape.

Why would someone do this if they were not mentally ill?

Certainly, IF it were someone in your family, your child, your granddaughter in such a terrible state as this, and being lambasted on that awful NG show each night for 3 years, (how can they ever find someone on a jury who didn't see this show?)
Certainly, you would be able then to put yourself, in their shoes.

I just don't know why they did not opt for the mental illness defense from the "get-go" and took the attitude with the protective cocoon around her as this family did for months (how many months was it I forgot?)

All those months of appearing on TV insisting that Zanny was "real".......and all those months of flat out denial did nothing to help their daughter's growing, real and oppressive mental illnesses which must be legion by now.

 

[USARDOG]

I haven't read all these many posts on any of these threads, yet I know from the tone of other threads I've been on, that the majority of people wish to see Casey dead, in retaliation of her daughter's death, i.e. the Death Penalty.

I find this immensely sad as the human condition in the U.S. seems to be as in the Middle East, or "an eye for an eye" Retribution.

There is no doubt and never has been for me, that Casey is mentally ill.

We need only look at her fantasy life, all contrived as well as the so-called evidence of "heart stickers" which personally, I think she did put on the duct tape.

Why would someone do this if they were not mentally ill?

Certainly, IF it were someone in your family, your child, your granddaughter in such a terrible state as this, and being lambasted on that awful NG show each night for 3 years, (how can they ever find someone on a jury who didn't see this show?)
Certainly, you would be able then to put yourself, in their shoes.

I just don't know why they did not opt for the mental illness defense from the "get-go" and took the attitude with the protective cocoon around her as this family did for months (how many months was it I forgot?)

All those months of appearing on TV insisting that Zanny was "real".......and all those months of flat out denial did nothing to help their daughter's growing, real and oppressive mental illnesses which must be legion by now.

I thought the insanity defence only applied to people who could not tell right from wrong. ICA definitly knew right from wrong as evidenced by her attempting to hide the crime. As far as mentaly ill, I'm sure she is, IMO she is one sick little girl IMO, but did she know it was wrong to kill her daughter... She sure did!