GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[Ausgirl]

Representative of the Creepypasta Community even launched a crowd-sourced fundraiser on YouCaring.com to raise $10,000 for the stabbing victim over the next month.

snipped

As of Wednesday morning, it had 45 supporters had raised $370.

This is pretty awesome of them, they didn't have to do that - and creepypasta isn't the kind of place to care much about bad press, either, I think.

 

[Spice]

This is about mental illness. Not "Goth", "Death Metal", 420, or the internet. Re read what Geyser stated. As a Social Worker and mental health professional I can tell you that her statements are delusional and are not based in reality. The friend that held this poor victim down is obviously also troubled and may be the weaker personality. Let us not forget that developmentally,adolescents are ALL about being accepted by their peers. It's THE most important thing in their lives at this time.

Parents that are not neglectful or abusive can have mentally ill children. It is an oversimplification to blame parents and the internet without having any information about them other than the music they listen to and that they may engage in recreational marijuana use. Many many parents are abusing and high on prescription drugs all across America, its epidemic actually, but we will stand on a pedestal and get all judgey about marijuana. (And no, I don't smoke it so I have no horse in this race)

Most problems are layered and not just any one thing. But it is obvious that mental illness is the primary factor here. Again, we will scream about 50 other things instead of the reality of it just as we do with every single school shooter/ rampage, most of whom are very mentally ill. While I agree that too much exposure to violent imagery is unhealthy, we have had that violent imagery and aggression since the inception of our country. It's part of our culture. War, guns, and violence, misogyny,oppression, power struggles, sexism. All a part of our culture, add that to mental illness and a sick mind and you have a problem. We as a society help produce the individuals in our society and the dominant culture of our society plays a role in this as well.

And as far as the 50's....as a woman you could not PAY me to go back to that time. Not only was this pre civil rights but why it is idealized I will never understand. Women could not get credit without their husbands, they could not own property without their husbands, and their career "choices" were secretary, mother or housewife. Period.

I have all the respect in the world for stay at home moms and believe their jobs are just as hard if not harder than any other job out there, especially single moms or moms without supportive husbands. Its about choice. If you can stay home with your children and that is what you WANT then all the power too you. If you have children and want to work and build a career that is okay too. But let's not idealize a time in a America that was actually very dark and oppressive for people of color and women.

"Leave it to Beaver" was just television show. And there was just as much darkness in society in the 50's as there is now, it just manifested itself differently and we did not have a 24 hour media cycle. The human condition doesn't change with each decade. The underlying issues tend to stay the same but play out in their own way in their era.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This is about mental illness. Not "Goth", "Death Metal", 420, or the internet. Re read what Geyser stated. As a Social Worker and mental health professional I can tell you that her statements are delusional and are not based in reality. The friend that held this poor victim down is obviously also troubled and may be the weaker personality. Let us not forget that developmentally,adolescents are ALL about being accepted by their peers. It's THE most important thing in their lives at this time.

Parents that are not neglectful or abusive can have mentally ill children. It is an oversimplification to blame parents and the internet without having any information about them other than the music they listen to and that they may engage in recreational marijuana use. Many many parents are abusing and high on prescription drugs all across America, its epidemic actually, but we ill stand on a pedestal and get all judgey about marijuana. (And no, I don't smoke it)

Most problems are layered and not just any one thing. But it is obvious that mental illness is the primary factor here. Again, we will scream about 50 other things instead of the reality of it just as we do with every single school shooter/ rampage, most of whom are very mentally ill. While I agree that too much exposure to violent imagery is unhealthy, we have had that violent imagery and aggression since the inception of our country. It's part of our culture. War, guns, and violence, misogyny,oppression, power struggles, sexism. All a part of our culture, add that to mental illness and a sick mind and you have a problem.

And as far as the 50's....as a woman you could not PAY me to go back to that time. Not only was this pre civil rights but why it is idealized I will never understand. Women could not get credit without their husbands, they could not own property without their husbands, and their career "choices" were secretary, mother or housewife. Period.

I have all the respect in the world for stay at home moms and believe their jobs are just as hard if not harder than any other job out there, especially single moms or moms without supportive husbands. Its about choice. If you can stay home with your children and that is what you WANT then all the power too you. If you have children and want to work and build a career that is okay too. But let's not idealize a time in a America that was actually very dark and oppressive for people of color and women.

"Leave it to Beaver" was just television show. And there was just as much darkness in society in the 50's as there is now.

Im sorry. I don't believe this is mental illness. I think this is two kids in the worst emotional times in their lives left to go awry.

I don't believe that the 50's were oppressive. I think that it was the way people liked it and when they didn't any more people changed it, But what have we gotten???

Less kid supervision, Less humanness, Less less less.

I am not saying we need be connected to our kids. And know what they are doing and where they are online and what their friends are into.

This reeks to me of parents not plugged in.

 

[Elley Mae]

This is about mental illness. Not "Goth", "Death Metal", 420, or the internet. Re read what Geyser stated. As a Social Worker and mental health professional I can tell you that her statements are delusional and are not based in reality. The friend that held this poor victim down is obviously also troubled and may be the weaker personality. Let us not forget that developmentally,adolescents are ALL about being accepted by their peers. It's THE most important thing in their lives at this time.

Parents that are not neglectful or abusive can have mentally ill children. It is an oversimplification to blame parents and the internet without having any information about them other than the music they listen to and that they may engage in recreational marijuana use. Many many parents are abusing and high on prescription drugs all across America, its epidemic actually, but we ill stand on a pedestal and get all judgey about marijuana. (And no, I don't smoke it so I have no horse in this race)

Most problems are layered and not just any one thing. But it is obvious that mental illness is the primary factor here. Again, we will scream about 50 other things instead of the reality of it just as we do with every single school shooter/ rampage, most of whom are very mentally ill. While I agree that too much exposure to violent imagery is unhealthy, we have had that violent imagery and aggression since the inception of our country. It's part of our culture. War, guns, and violence, misogyny,oppression, power struggles, sexism. All a part of our culture, add that to mental illness and a sick mind and you have a problem. We as a society help produce the individuals in our society and the dominant culture of our society plays a role in this as well.

And as far as the 50's....as a woman you could not PAY me to go back to that time. Not only was this pre civil rights but why it is idealized I will never understand. Women could not get credit without their husbands, they could not own property without their husbands, and their career "choices" were secretary, mother or housewife. Period.

I have all the respect in the world for stay at home moms and believe their jobs are just as hard if not harder than any other job out there, especially single moms or moms without supportive husbands. Its about choice. If you can stay home with your children and that is what you WANT then all the power too you. If you have children and want to work and build a career that is okay too. But let's not idealize a time in a America that was actually very dark and oppressive for people of color and women.

"Leave it to Beaver" was just television show. And there was just as much darkness in society in the 50's as there is now, it just manifested itself differently and we did not have a 24 hour media cycle. The human condition doesn't change with each decade. The underlying issues tend to stay the same but play out in their own way in their era.

I am glad I didn't grow up where you did. I was born in the fifties, 1 of 5 kids to a cop w/a stay at home mom. We had a great life and my mother was not held back from anything she wanted to do, yes she worked in a factory with men before she married. I agree the girls have a mental illness, sane people don't want to kill others. jmo idk

 

[Spice]

I am glad I didn't grow up where you did. I was born in the fifties, 1 of 5 kids to a cop w/a stay at home mom. We had a great life and my mother was not held back from anything she wanted to do, yes she worked in a factory with men before she married. I agree the girls have a mental illness, sane people don't want to kill others. jmo idk

Its not about geography, so I'm not understanding your point? I grew up in a great place and my mother was a single mother who worked her entire life to support me. So I am not really sure what you are trying to say about where and how I 'grew up."

What i was trying to get across was that idealizing the 50's as some wholesome era with no violence or problems or oppressions is just inherently FALSE and not at all realistic. When I spoke to women's issues, I was speaking to pre feminist era where women were overwhelmingly expected to comply to rigid roles, a well documented historical reality. I'm not making it up. lol. This is not something that I idealize nor do I fool myself into thinking that violence, murder, and crime did not exist in the 50s. I was responding to a previous post that addressed those issues and lamented the "kids of today."

Geysers' comments sound like CLASSIC paranoid delusions. Slenderman " teleporting" "going to kill her family" etc. She may be showing likely signs of a schizoaffective disorder of some type. Early onset of schizophrenia would be rare at her age and for her gender but not totally impossible. What I am saying is let's see it for what it is instead of judging 5,000 other things that may or may not be inconsequential. There is already a ton of judging of her parents without knowing much about them at all, because what we do know does not fit into the dominant paradigm of what some find "acceptable". Its ridiculous. We should know more before we judge.

 

[Nymeria]

Oh and another odd thing that distinguishes many of these stories from the old urban legends where scary "adult" monsters killed teenagers.

Most of the victims are kids however many of the killers are kids too! Instead of adults doing things to teens it seems kids stabbing other kids is a popular theme. That also seems to speak to the fact the average age of participants is probably very young.

Here is an example, story is based on a popular "Jeff the Killer" character that is featured in many other stories, notice the comments at the bottom in which people critique the writing. http://www.creepypasta.com/jeff-the-killer/

Thanks for the link, bookmarked it to read later.
Having not read it yet, I just had to remark that naming the villain/killer/creep "Jeff" is in it's own way almost genius. When I read your post I actually laughed a little....Jeff the killer? Just "Jeff"?
Something about that normal name makes it almost higher on the creepy meter.

I have to be honest, if the internet had been around when I was 12 or so, this is exactly the kind of site I would probably have frequented.
I bet many of us WS'ers here started out reading true crime novels. And not just your basic stuff but very descriptive, semi-gory crime details (Helter Skelter, Bundys bios, Ramirez, etc.). I used to grab any book of my parents and read away, I do not recall them ever censoring me.
I thank gods for that now, and I raised my son the same way.
The difference is, my son is now compassionate, respectful and a decent human. He has his faults but as a person, I am proud of what he grew up to be.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I do not blame the information being put into the childrens brains, I blame mental issues combined with a lack of direction and/or instilling of certain values from parents (with a heavy emphasis on the mental issues).

 

[Spice]

Im sorry. I don't believe this is mental illness. I think this is two kids in the worst emotional times in their lives left to go awry.

I don't believe that the 50's were oppressive. I think that it was the way people liked it and when they didn't any more people changed it, But what have we gotten???

Less kid supervision, Less humanness, Less less less.

I am not saying we need be connected to our kids. And know what they are doing and where they are online and what their friends are into.

This reeks to me of parents not plugged in.

You do not have to believe the 50's were oppressive. ( they weren't if you were a white able bodied man for sure) That is your perspective and that is fine. I am stating that as a mental health professional paid to do assessments and with a higher degree in human and societal behavior (Social Work) Geyser appears or is showing signs of being possibly mentally ill. Classically. Her statements tell you that, her actions tell you that even more. And the more we ignore mental illness in this country and find 50 other things to scapegoat antisocial and psychotic behavior for the more problems we will continue to have.

We know nothing about her parents. NOTHING. And until we do, we cannot sit here and say that they were not "plugged" in. You may be right, but we do not know that at this point. Just as a lot of people here are blaming their actions on everything and anything but mental illness her parents may have done the same. They may very well have been unplugged when it came to how sick she really was.

I see families like that every single day and you would be shocked how common it is. It's not that they are bad parents, rather they are in denial, scared of the stigma of mental illness and keeping up appearances to themselves and to others. It is extremely prevalent. "Not my family" "Not in my town" "Not my kid". Yes. Your family, your kid, your town. It is what it is now lets deal with it, let's be preemptive, open, understanding, and deal with the problem before something like this happens as it does all too regularly.

 

[Ausgirl]

My (admittedly pre-emptive) criticism of the parents is that I find it hard to see kids this disturbed, who've also shown no previous sign of violent or anti-social behaviours. So I suspect there might have indeed been a rather profound lack of "plugging in" there. Also, the current research I posted earlier shows that 80% of violent kids are exposed to violence in the home.

Mind you, I think there's such a thing as being wayyyy too "plugged in". Which could also cause issues. But I somehow think that's not the case here.

 

[gitana1]

I think we need to start making parents more responsible for their minor children. Today, kids raise themselves. They have all kinds of access to insane sites and I don't think parents even care who their kids are friends with.

It is funny. People say the 50's were an awful time, but when I talk to people who grew up then, It wasn't. Everyone knew each other, People looked out for other people's kids, You had to be present when you were with people, if you had no money in your pocket you could not spend it or go into debt.

Sure there was crime and horrible people, But as a rule I think society was better because it was connected in a different way. I think that now kids have this disassociation with other humans because the internet dehumanizes people. It has taken the value out of humanness and compassion. In an early mind this is dangerous.

I think that kids today are becoming more and more immunized to compassion and basic morality.

In the 1950's, if you beat your wife, the police took you on a walk around the block to calm down. There was no term for child abuse and child abuse was rampant. Mothers little helper was meds widely prescribed for isolated, depressed and disillusioned housewives. Alcoholics didn't routinely utilize AA.

Black people sat at the back of the bus.

I get what you're saying. I do think the speed of technology, and ease of access, plus the culture of today, makes it harder for parents and other adults to keep kids away from harmful content and makes it less likely that kids will be outside playing rather than inside obsessing over something they shouldn't.

But every era has it's problems.

 

[appleeye]

You do not have to believe the 50's were oppressive. ( they weren't if you were a white able bodied man for sure) That is your perspective and that is fine. I am stating that as a mental health professional paid to do assessments and with a degree in human and societal behavior Geyser is mentally ill. Classically. Her statements tell you that, her actions tell you that even more. And the more we ignore mental illness in this country and find 50 other things to scapegoat antisocial and psychotic behavior for the more problems we will continue to have.

We know nothing about her parents. NOTHING. And until we do, we cannot sit here and say that they were not "plugged" in. You may be right, but we do not know that at this point. Just as a lot of people here are blaming their actions on everything and anything but mental illness her parents may have done the same. They may very well have been unplugged when it came
to how sick she really was.

I agree with you 100 percent.

Reaks of psychosis.

Also, It is very easy to blame parents until you are the parent that has the kid do something outrageous.

One more point, It is Websleuths policy that you are not allowed to sleuth the innocent for a reason. Leave the parents out of it and stick to what we know about the girls.

 

[Ausgirl]

Who's sleuthing the parents?

 

[appleeye]

At this point, we have not heard anything about the kids to find out if they have displayed other behaviours that are troubling. It is not that there was nothing, it is that we have heard no evidence either way.

We have no idea if there was school, psychiatric involvement, anything.

We can not blame the parents unless they planned it out and were involved. They did not lure a girl into the woods to kill her. They are victims at this point also.

We have no idea how plugged in or not plugged in they were. It is so easy to point a finger until it happens to you.

 

[appleeye]

Who's sleuthing the parents?

The people that have been on dad's instagram and have seen 420 in his profile picture, etc. The judgements on the parents have come from people looking for a reason.

You won't find it , IMO. These girls did this. Why? I think they are very seriously mentally ill.

And evil.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Im sorry. I don't believe this is mental illness. I think this is two kids in the worst emotional times in their lives left to go awry.

I don't believe that the 50's were oppressive. I think that it was the way people liked it and when they didn't any more people changed it, But what have we gotten???

Less kid supervision, Less humanness, Less less less.

I am not saying we need be connected to our kids. And know what they are doing and where they are online and what their friends are into.

This reeks to me of parents not plugged in.

BBM.

You can believe what you want, but facts do not support this. I strongly encourage you to read The Feminine Mystique for a in depth discussion of the oppression women faced during that time. For example, there was a shift in women's education from the 1940s to the early 1960s, in which many women's schools concentrated on non-challenging classes that focused mostly on marriage, family, and other subjects deemed suitable for women, as educators influenced by functionalism felt that too much education would spoil women's femininity and capacity for sexual fulfillment. Where women were once able to pursue more serious subjects in limited numbers, during this time, even as higher education for women became more widespread, general education became more tightly focused on home and hearth. This conservativism and idealization of the home was a response to the Great Depression and and WWII, and can be understood in that context, but could be hellish to live in - look at the numbers for unhappy women and the prevalence of alcohol and drugs as "mothers' helpers."

As others have pointed out, women were unable to obtain credit cards without their husband's permission. A woman giving birth in the hospital was at the mercy of her doctors with no real autonomy - twilight birth stories are pretty horrific. This was before the advent of many forms of birth control, and some women struggled deeply with having many children. Marital rape was permitted. In fact, with rapes, unless you had proof of fighting back with physical injury, you weren't believed to have been raped. Even with physical injuries, you were likely "asking for it."

The list goes on and on.

And this is for middle class white women. I haven't even scratched the surface of oppression for minority men and women in America at this time. Remember, this is pre-Civil Rights Movement.

So you may believe that women weren't oppressed in the 1950s. You're entitled to that belief. But history doesn't support this belief in the slightest. A subset of people today idolize the 1950s, but this is usually based on misguided ideas of the time, filtered through television programming or other entertainment. Leave it to Beaver was no more indicative of reality than the Kardashians are today.

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay, so here's some MSM info on the parents -- who are decent folks according to their neighbours.

Emily said that as far as the girl she babysat, she often saw her family laughing and smiling together. She described the girl’s parents as “such nice people” who seem devoted to their two kids.

...

“Anyone who knows them knows these are good people, a normal middle-class family,” said Plotkin, 44. “It just goes to show, no matter how hard you try to instil good morals, good values, things can still go wrong.”

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/year+gir...s+neighbours/9901401/story.html#ixzz33gclCRH6

So colour me wrong, perhaps home life isn't a factor here. Which makes this an extremely rare case, much like the parallel NZ case mentioned earlier.

 

[Spice]

BBM.


The list goes on and on.

And this is for middle class white women. I haven't even scratched the surface of oppression for minority men and women in America at this time. Remember, this is pre-Civil Rights Movement.

So you may believe that women weren't oppressed in the 1950s. You're entitled to that belief. But history doesn't support this belief in the slightest. A subset of people today idolize the 1950s, but this is usually based on misguided ideas of the time, filtered through television programming or other entertainment. Leave it to Beaver was no more indicative of reality than the Kardashians are today.

Amen! Brava....just BRAVA! I just finished The Feminist Mystique and my only criticism is that it totally left out the voices of women of color......not ok. But Ms. Friedman was a woman of her time I guess.

 

[Ausgirl]

"She's 12 and she has mental health issues," Cotton said. "There's no question that she needs to go to the hospital."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/slende...tabbing-is-mentally-ill-lawyer-says-1.2664136

Okay I tend to agree. Though he's a lawyer, not a psychiatrist...

My question here is: there's a kid charged with murder talking like she's utterly delusional, and she hasn't had a psych evaluation yet? How does that work? Is that usual?

 

[appleeye]

Just came across the Official Slenderman Twitter account. @OfficSlenderMan

"Ignorant children... Do you really believe you will be able to win my favoritism? How dare you try to act as though you know my agenda"

18 hours ago

"I am everywhere. You cannot hide your children from me"

18 hours ago

"you are of no use to me if it takes 19+ stab wounds and your victim STILL survives... useless children"

18 hours ago

"children are like Easter Eggs, you have to hunt for them" April 5

"seek me out and I will show ya how I bury me treasure, lass!"

Highly disturbing. Would be interested to see if these girls were following this "gent" on twitter

 

[Spice]

Just came across the Official Slenderman Twitter account. @OfficSlenderMan

"Ignorant children... Do you really believe you will be able to win my favoritism? How dare you try to act as though you know my agenda"

18 hours ago

"I am everywhere. You cannot hide your children from me"

18 hours ago

"you are of no use to me if it takes 19+ stab wounds and your victim STILL survives... useless children"

18 hours ago

"children are like Easter Eggs, you have to hunt for them" April 5

"seek me out and I will show ya how I bury me treasure, lass!"

Highly disturbing. Would be interested to see if these girls were following this "gent" on twitter

What??? I wonder who is running the account? And what kind of sicko responds to the attempted murder of this child as some sort of "failure" tempting others to up the ante if there is a next time. This is seriously insane in light of what just happened. And egregious.

 

[Sonya610]

Also, the current research I posted earlier shows that 80% of violent kids are exposed to violence in the home.

Violence in the home meaning parents/relatives were violent, or their mother was so comfortable with violence she had violent boyfriends.

Nature vs. Nurture. I say it is 70% nature.