WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

[punklove]

I'm not a parent so this is my best guess on what I would do and my thoughts on it.

I would probably try to get in the house too but I could see not wanting to break in as that would look really, really bad if someone heard/saw you doing so and then come to find the daughter is missing. After all, family is usually the first to be speculated about.

I do agree that 39 minutes is a really long time. I could see searching frantically and freaking out for maybe 15 minutes tops. Probably had to figure out what to do with the baby too. Maybe it took him a while to find a neighbor that was home? And then when the guy opens the door and sees this strange man having a panic attack, probably wants to know what the heck is going on, so then he rehashes the whole story before they call.

I guess I could think of reasons why it took so long but in my opinion it shouldn't have been more than 15 minutes after he found her.

He left the baby in the bed the ran to the house directly across the street and called 911 and police were there within minutes. AT that time a lot of people were already home so Im sure he saw several houses that looked like people were there. Its not even that I think he did something bad, something about it just bothers me.

Here is a photo of her parents and little sister. The look on her mothers face is heartbreaking. Link

And here is a photo of Evelyn Ive never seen before. (you have to scroll down a little) http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xugwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Mt4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=7251,483117&dq=evelyn+hartley+missing&hl=en

 

[joellegirl]

One thought about a witness seeing the car in question backing out of the driveway, maybe they were just turning around and not parked there. You know how one does that to avoid going in a direction they don't want too? I have seen this neighborhood in person, and if the car was facing east on Coulee Dr, they would have wanted to turn around to go in the direction to the quickest way out the of the subdivision and onto Losey Blvd, the closest large thouroughfare. I also read somewhere one neighbor was in his basement and heard the sounds of people rushing by his basement window, could have been the perps and Evelyn. Seems like neighbors did hear plenty, but no one thought any more about it.

 

[joellegirl]

One tidbit I remember reading about Evelyn's father, I think in the book "Where's Evelyn?" is that when he saw the blood, he first said maybe it was Evelyn's menstrual blood (as she was on her period at the time and her pads are still with other evidence of the case--I'm assuming the pads were taken from the garbage of her home or the Rasmussen's). Even the investigators thought that was an odd comment, as no way that much blood was from her period. Also kind of an odd thing for a father to say, they thought. He could have been in shock and was saying it hoping that was all it was, who knows? Just a tidbit I remember reading. Good question why it took him over 30 minutes to ask for help.

One thing there was no 911 then. So some time finding the numnber to call. It does make sense maybe he rehashed to story to the neighbors, and maybe he and the neighbors even went back to the scene before calling?

I am a parent,( my youngest even born on Oct 24, of all days, I thought of that when she was born) and I would be calling ASAP, but it seems people back then weren't as quick to call police, ambulances(which were just cars, no life saving equipment on them) etc..I can almost picture the neighbor and Evelyn's father walking back to the scene together before calling, though I have never read that happened. Just that he went to the neighbors and called police.

 

[joellegirl]

Interesting newspaper article, Evelyns mother made Evelyn go babysit that night. Evelyn didnt want to babysit (though she promised she would) and her mother made her, saying that she said she would babysit so she needed to honor her word. Link

Thats really got to make you beat yourself up, poor woman.

And that poor mother lived way into her 90's. She lived about 50 years after Evelyn vanished. Such a long time to live with such an awful tragedy.

 

[joellegirl]

She DID tell a friend once she would fight, not run, if a person ever tried to hurt her or a baby. Or something like that.

I've read about her saying that too. There had a been a kidnapping of a young boy in the news just weeks before Evelyn herself vanished, and she and her friends discussed what they would do if it ever happened to them...

 

[punklove]

One thought about a witness seeing the car in question backing out of the driveway, maybe they were just turning around and not parked there. You know how one does that to avoid going in a direction they don't want too? I have seen this neighborhood in person, and if the car was facing east on Coulee Dr, they would have wanted to turn around to go in the direction to the quickest way out the of the subdivision and onto Losey Blvd, the closest large thouroughfare. I also read somewhere one neighbor was in his basement and heard the sounds of people rushing by his basement window, could have been the perps and Evelyn. Seems like neighbors did hear plenty, but no one thought any more about it.

Would the person have had to be familiar with the neighborhood to get in/out without confusion? Thats neat youve seen the houses, do you mind me asking questions?

I was wondering how close the homes are together.. If the man that heard the screams lived three houses over how did nobody else? Sure, a lot of people were at the game but there were some people home.

As far as the scream, I honestly think its a kitty genovese type of situation.. there is a huge difference in someone screaming as they are being stabbed nearly to death and children playing (not to forget that it was dark out and really cold out). He heard three screams from three houses over so its not like he couldnt hear her clearly or that she was unable to scream loudly, he just decided to ignore it.

Dont get me wrong, I doubt that he knew something so serious was going on - he very well could have thought neighbors were fighting or something and just decided he didnt want to get involved.

Do you know how long the people owned the house she was taken from?

 

[punklove]

One tidbit I remember reading about Evelyn's father, I think in the book "Where's Evelyn?" is that when he saw the blood, he first said maybe it was Evelyn's menstrual blood (as she was on her period at the time and her pads are still with other evidence of the case--I'm assuming the pads were taken from the garbage of her home or the Rasmussen's). Even the investigators thought that was an odd comment, as no way that much blood was from her period. Also kind of an odd thing for a father to say, they thought. He could have been in shock and was saying it hoping that was all it was, who knows? Just a tidbit I remember reading. Good question why it took him over 30 minutes to ask for help.

One thing there was no 911 then. So some time finding the numnber to call. It does make sense maybe he rehashed to story to the neighbors, and maybe he and the neighbors even went back to the scene before calling?

I am a parent,( my youngest even born on Oct 24, of all days, I thought of that when she was born) and I would be calling ASAP, but it seems people back then weren't as quick to call police, ambulances(which were just cars, no life saving equipment on them) etc..I can almost picture the neighbor and Evelyn's father walking back to the scene together before calling, though I have never read that happened. Just that he went to the neighbors and called police.

The police say the call was logged at 9:49 and the police were there within 3 minutes, not sure if everyone was the same but I remember when I was young my grandmothers phone had a thing actually on the phone that you would write important numbers on like the police, maybe they had something like that.

I dont recall any interviews with the neighbors that called 911 (I keep saying 911 even though wasnt around then haha) but id love to be able to ask them some questions.. You actually just made me think of something..

So, the father says that he came to the home.. looked around the house and "Bloodstains were found around that window and in the grass of the yard, and there was a bloody handprint on the side of the house next door."

1) The whole menstrual blood thing really creeps me out - why would he know she was on her period? 15 year old girls dont typically talk to their fathers about such things, even less so in 1953. If the blood was found in the home Id be more willing to understand.. but a huge pool of blood outside? Her mother started to scream/cry the moment she saw the blood because she knew that nobody could survive after losing that much blood.

2) To see the blood on the ground he would have had to see the handprints/blood on the house next door since the blood in the grass was on the ground in front of the blood on the wall. Even if he thought what was on the ground was her period (no clue how he could ever think that) how would that explain bloody smears and handprints on the house next door?

Im sure things are much more clear for us that her father at the time, hindsight and all.. but 39 minutes is just weird. 10-15 even 20 minutes seems excessive but explainable.

Its worth note that the father took a lie detector test and passed. Even so, It still confuses me.

 

[punklove]

And that poor mother lived way into her 90's. She lived about 50 years after Evelyn vanished. Such a long time to live with such an awful tragedy.

Thats whats so awful about these types of cases.. it would have almost been a blessing had they found her body, at least then she wouldnt have had to spend every day wonder if Evelyn was being held somewhere, if she was hungry.. cold.. And entire life of 'what ifs'.

 

[joellegirl]

Punklove, according to the book "Where's Evelyn? "the Rasmusens moved in the house over the summer of 1953, so they only lived there a few months. The houses were quite close, typical subdivision lots.
Still several empty lots at that time, including the lot on the side of the famous basement window. At that time, that was a large open lot, but there were houses across the street, on the north side and behind the house.The book I mentioned above has several pics taken at that time, including a pic of the trail Evelyn was most likely taken through the backyards and onto Coulee Dr where her scent ended.

Also one pic shows how the house had the picture window facing the backyard.
In that one You Tube video I linked earlier, there are the neighbors who heard the screams and thought they sounded like some one in trouble or who just got in trouble. I believe they looked out but saw nothing. I agree about with it being dark and cold out, so no small children would be out making noise.

I hope I can ever figure out how to post the pictures I have taken.

On a completely off the topic side note, on of my uncles had Professor Hartley (her dad) for a teacher at the Univ. of Wis La Crosse in the 1960's, and he said he had a very quiet voice. It was rumoured his voice became that way after the tragedy, but my uncle said he wasn't sure that was really true, since he didn't know him before he had his class.

 

[punklove]

Punklove, according to the book "Where's Evelyn? "the Rasmusens moved in the house over the summer of 1953, so they only lived there a few months. The houses were quite close, typical subdivision lots.
Still several empty lots at that time, including the lot on the side of the famous basement window. At that time, that was a large open lot, but there were houses across the street, on the north side and behind the house.The book I mentioned above has several pics taken at that time, including a pic of the trail Evelyn was most likely taken through the backyards and onto Coulee Dr where her scent ended.

Also one pic shows how the house had the picture window facing the backyard.
In that one You Tube video I linked earlier, there are the neighbors who heard the screams and thought they sounded like some one in trouble or who just got in trouble. I believe they looked out but saw nothing. I agree about with it being dark and cold out, so no small children would be out making noise.

I hope I can ever figure out how to post the pictures I have taken.

On a completely off the topic side note, on of my uncles had Professor Hartley (her dad) for a teacher at the Univ. of Wis La Crosse in the 1960's, and he said he had a very quiet voice. It was rumoured his voice became that way after the tragedy, but my uncle said he wasn't sure that was really true, since he didn't know him before he had his class.

You can go here http://tinypic.com/ and click browse, find the photo you want to upload, leave the settings on default, click upload. Click on the address in the first box (HTML for Websites) and then come back here and come back here and post it like you would any address.

Cant wait to see them! Do you happen to have copies of the photos that were in the book? Id love to see them if you do..

 

[joellegirl]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...d=R6F_wC53jphaX7xiLTMCHQ&cbp=12,97.89,,0,5.14

Here is the street view from Google maps of house where Evelyn's scent ended at the curb on Coulee Dr. Her scent went between these two houses.

Thanks Punklove for the info on posting pics! I will try that but for now here is the street view.

 

[joellegirl]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...noid=RkL_6gEPW_Qj_AalDOaRsw&cbp=12,69.01,,0,5

Here is the view of the corner of Coulee Dr and Hoeschler. The first house facing the road on Hoeschler with the large white garage door is the house Evelyn was abducted from. Then if you look straight ahead on Coulee, the blue house in the distance on the right side of Coulee is where her scent ended at the street. So you can kind of picture how she was taken on kind of a diagonal angle though the connecting backyards. One can see this is not two blocks away, it is just around the corner.

 

[Claudette]

Wait....so, the house she was in was a corner house??

This makes it even more plausible, imo, that someone was just driving around looking for a "good opportunity". Blech.

Poor Evelyn, I think about her everyday. Sadly, we most likely will never find her or figure out what happened.

 

[joellegirl]

Kind of on the corner. The house exactly on the corner faces Coulee Dr(it was there at the time of the abduction) and the house she was abducted from is right behind it facing Hoeschler. I still consider it a corner house though because the house can certainly be seen from all angles from that intersection, even more so in 1953 when there were not any mature trees and the neighborhood was very open looking.
I think about Evelyn every day too, I know what you mean.

 

[punklove]

I wonder if they still have all the bloody clothing? If so, why havent they run DNA tests on it? There were so many things found it seems that there has to be DNA on something..

 

[joellegirl]

I "think" they still have the bloody clothes that were found along the road, but I could be wrong. The jacket(believed to have belonged to one of the perps) that was found was paraded all over the area in hopes someone recognized it. I'm not sure if that has survived. According the the book "Where's Evelyn?" they still have her menstrual pads. This is a quote from the book
"La Crosse police did decide to ask(circa 2003) the State Crime Laboratory to use it's DNA capabilities on the blood left at the scene. With Evelyn's menstrual pads among the evidence, they could compare her known blood with blood at the scene. Perhaps they can learn whether the blood was that of Evelyn's or if there were even two different persons bleeding at the site. If sufficient evidence became available to warrant such an action, the bodies of Tywee Peterson and/of Gaulthair (two men from LaFarge) theoretically could be exhumed of DNA comparison."

The book also mentions it would be very helpful if Evelyn's two surviving siblings, a sister in Oregon and a brother in Australia, would give their DNA, even just a swab of their mouths,but they have refused.

All of this info is from 2003 when the tape surfaced with the men talking about taking Evelyn. As I have said before, from this tape , police seem to know the exact house she was taken(if the story is true of course). Why will they not do testing? They could use Luminol to see if there was ever blood there, the could search the property! Maybe they have and are being silent. but it has been 7 years! It seems they were on to something and just quit.

 

[joellegirl]

A little interesting tidbit, supposedly one of Evelyn's friends had the exact same outfit that Evelyn was wearing the night she disappeared. They had bought them while shopping together. I think the girl gave her outfit to the police and they still have it in the crime lab for comparison.

In one of the old newspaper articles, I read Evelyn took a coat with her to the babysitting job, which makes sense being late October, but I have never read what became of the coat. Was it left behind? Is it in the crime lab now? I can't imagine the perps letting her take the time to grab her coat, let alone she herself even thinking of it while trying to get away. We do know she was without her shoes and glasses. Poor Evelyn, I can't imagine the terror she felt.

 

[punklove]

Did her sister and brother give a reason as to why they refused? It seems odd that they wouldnt do such a small thing in hopes that they would finally have answers..

Its odd they wouldnt have tested the stuff ages ago, Some of the things belonged to the perp so you would certainly think some sort of DNA (semen, blood.. whatever) would be on them.

 

[joellegirl]

I'm not sure really why the siblings won't cooperate. They have been approached and refused, according to the book, and when the author tried to contact them they weren't friendly and not happy about the book or any attention to the case.
I assume families of missing people react two ways. There are those who embrace the interest and attention and will do whatever it takes to maybe solve the case,(as in Anna Water's mom, Janice Pockett's sister, Beverly Potts sister--before her own death a few years back. They are/were all actively involved in hoping the cases will be solved and welcome people like us who want to help) then there are those like the Hartleys that just want it to go away, it hurts too much, they have given up hope and don't want any reminders.

I understand them being numb after so many false hopes back then, but today we have ways like DNA that could really solve it. I wish they would embrace the technology and that those of us who care aren't exploiting anything , we just truly care and would like to see it solved. If they could just leave their DNA, if Evelyn is ever found, she could be given a proper burial.

 

[punklove]

Its sad they wont do it - there are so many cases that have nothing to test for DNA so its frustrating where there is ample evidence in her case that could be very helpful in finally solving this.

Im sure they have reasons but I dont see the big deal oh allowing them to test their DNA if it could result in answers in this 57 year old case.