Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #35

[Karinna]

Thank you Katydid23.
ABSOLUTELY SHE WAS NOT INVOLVED!

No she wasn't. She is the victim of a double homicide of her parents and the kidnapping of a minor.
Just a FYI for newcomers on the thread that might not know that.

 

[mickey2942]

I apprec

Great post, I was feeling the same way. I think it may be empowering for her to testify and something she may regret not doing. I bet she is tougher than some think. She did nothing wrong, she is a survivor. If she did indeed suffer sexual assault the shame would be feeling she had to be protected from it. She is strong, she will get through this. I understand wanting to protect her but that's not real nor therapeutic in my opinion

I agree. When you don't face people who wronged you, you feel powerless, like you ran away, and let them "win".

True self awareness and empowerment comes from the strength to face evil. It is not easy. But in the end, you feel vindicated.

 

[MassGuy]

It was just a question. Often times in these type of cases there is a love connection and it isn’t random. If you really want to sleuth, you have to be open minded about these things.

Yes. Some of us thought that might be the case early on, before we were privy to many of the details.

Now that we have learned the circumstances of the murders, her abduction, and her captivity, there is no doubt that she is nothing more than an innocent victim.

This guy has no known connection to any Closs family member, to include Jayme.

We don’t know why he selected Jayme, but we do know that she had absolutely no part in it.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I’m finally caught up (this thread has been moving at lightning speed and have a question. I am a little confused as to how no one knew JTP was living there, given the accounts that say there were people in & out of the residence frequently? Forgive me but due to the fast pace of the thread, I do not have a link to those statements, I did read it here somewhere. If I am incorrect in anyway, please correct me MOO

 

[Shelby2]

It was just a question. Often times in these type of cases there is a love connection and it isn’t random. <modsnip>

Right now she is considered a victim so we can't discuss that. Only persons of interest or suspects can be sleuthed.

 

[heed101]

It was just a question. Often times in these type of cases there is a love connection and it isn’t random. <modsnip>

I agree...if we are playing detective every avenue needs to be explored. I don't think it is the case here, but there have been cases in the past. No one is blaming the victim.

 

[Shelby2]

I’m finally caught up (this thread has been moving at lightning speed and have a question. I am a little confused as to how no one knew JTP was living there, given the accounts that say there were people in & out of the residence frequently? Forgive me but due to the fast pace of the thread, I do not have a link to those statements, I did read it here somewhere. If I am incorrect in anyway, please correct me MOO

I am also confused about this.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Maybe the Army does it differently, or times have changed since I went through Marine boot camp several years ago.

Regardless, we still don’t know if he ever enlisted, or what branch if he did.

I know some vets aren't comfortable hearing it but thank you for your service.
Father (Korean war/Heartbreak Ridge survivor); 2 sons OEF & OIF (#22)

 

[Pharmasgirl]

Wait.....what?? There are many people and families that live in small rural communities. Most have schools, healthcare, LE, grocery stores, convenience stores, etc,. either in town or a town close by.
jmo

Gordon no longer has a grocery store; IGA closed many years ago. We have a church, post office, convenience store/gas station & the Buckhorn Bar & Grill & let's not forget the Bowling Alley if it's still open. This is Gordon proper...right off the highway. Anything else is a drive so fill up!

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

She won’t ever have to see a courtroom.

100% agree

 

[BelleinDixie]

I didn't think he looked doughy his shoulders seem broad but maybe he is. I would think he would have prepared himself for this which means physically too. I liked what someone said, that he may lived in Barron for awhile since he had a job there.

IMHO, I believe he thought himself a Rambo of sorts, and killing the parents, was all part of the plan. Some kind of twisted fantasy of taking a girl against her will. He gives me a vibe. A bad one.

 

[cluciano63]

Yikes, I never watch the PC’s...I trust WS snd follow along, it has not failed me. I can’t buy into all the “body language”scrutiny, the debates about how long a pause is, etc...just want to know the words they said.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Did you forget he worked one day at Jennie O? He was set!
(I wonder about that too.)

According to the article that @oviedo linked above, he had friends over while Jayme was secreted somewhere in the house. I wonder if any of them will speak out? Every murderer/serial killer has an oblivious good friend. (I was shocked when an ex-neighbor told me she and a boyfriend had been in prison for murder. BF still in prison. Later she said “I hope you don’t hold that against me.”) Umm...

Jayme’s bravery and moxie astounds me.

Think about how when you watch a scary movie in which someone escapes their attacker, your heart pounds hard, you cover your eyes and kinda peek through your fingers while yelling ‘RUN RUN!’

Now imagine being 13 years old, aware your parents were murdered by your abductor, being held captive for three months while enduring God knows what, and still having the guts to escape and make a run for it. She must have been dreading he was going to catch her the entire time.

I have a feeling his “friends” were just there to buy and smoke some pot. I doubt they will speak out.

 

[esayer]

It was just a question. Often times in these type of cases there is a love connection and it isn’t random. If you really want to sleuth, you have to be open minded about these things.

Except that LE has said over and over there was no connection. <modsnip>

 

[MCDRAW]

I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the autistic spectrum.

My daughter and my nephew are on the spectrum, high functioning, neither would think to hurt anyone. Neither, would go looking for friends. They have friends but they don't mind being alone. I think there is a lot of people that don't understand the spectrum. JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I need to know more about how Jayme is, so I came back to read tons of really GREAT posts!!
In the midst of my almost Evelyn Wood fast speed- reading of all these many wonderful happy posts ( and anger at the suspect, justifiably) , I was stopped by the wise words of a fellow poster who is very respected and admired here, for good reason.

It was posted on the locked thread,# 34, so I wanted to bring it over with credit to her:
Gitana1, a verified attorney who has posted here for a long time, wisely wrote this post this AM in response to someone who asked " How can there be no evidence of where Jayme was, who had her, that sort of question we may all have wondered in 3 months ( I know I have as well)
Gitana1 said. BEGIN QUOTE:

"We need to learn why there was no evidence? I'm sorry. Not following that. Sometimes there just isn't anything that can help solve the case. LE did all they could do. They weren't just "waiting" around. There is no magic way to predict what some secret psychopath is planning unless they actually tell LE or someone else does.

This is the real world. Not a tv show like CSI which has, IMO, led to the attitude that if the cops don't find evidence or solve it within an hour, they didn't know what they were doing.

Nope. Most of these crimes can't be predicted or prevented. Sometimes perps are good at not leaving DNA or other clues.

That's reality.

It's a needle in a haystack issue. If a person doesn't have a criminal record, isn't a sex offender, hasn't done or said anything that others are able to notice that would be obvious enough for them to suspect he's hiding a live person in his house, etc., there's nothing that can be done and nothing LE needs to learn so they can do "better" the next time.

*Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah." END QUOTE

I wanted to add a few thoughts of my own to the overall reactions by some that LE were praising themselves too much when Jayme escaped, thus saving herself with little to no prior LE intervention that we know of at this time.

IF LE does not maintain both a respectful presence to their citizenry, as well as giving the facts, and being both so happy and also standing for their proper role in LE in the press conferences, then what about the next child, teen or adult who is abducted and remembers a sort of " shrugs shoulders" and says " She was very lucky and we missed it all" statements?

Will they try harder to do whatever is necessary to live ( sometimes any struggle will get the hostage killed- this was what I faced. The abducted MUST know how to read and respond to the abductor if immense anger and possession is present) and trust that their loved ones and LE will find them?

Added to this is the huge spectrum of knowledge of the individual abductor or group of abductors. Some abductions are crude and escapable by an able- bodied person with quick reflexes. Some abductors will shoot their victim if they resist anything. That's another factor which WE, the public, cannot adequately assess after the fact, because we were not there. We do not know the force of violence, the threats used, but we do know the threat present in the fact that in Jayme's case, her parents were murdered.

Acute fear, panic, even intermittent fugue states in an almost unlivable acute situation will be used by the person's mental defense mechanisms to stay alive and well as best as possible. The violence level, the goal of the abduction ( ransom, retaliation, sexual predation, or other) all play into the response of the victim during the acute situation. Chances are, most victims do know exactly why they were kidnapped/ abducted pretty early on.

Do press conferences by LE after a successful escape/ rescue have an effect on the public? I believe they definitely do have because each of us likely knows, from MSM news on a daily basis if nothing else, that we may be one breath away from being the next person hurt and taken. No one can predict who will be next in the absence of high- risk behavior ( I hate saying that but we know what high risk behavior is and some serial killers always went for the easiest prey to grab).

They general public may not watch the pressers, but they will likely hear their co-workers, parents, schoolmates, and friends talking about " the sheriff and his people" and they will remember " These were good people who put in so much time and effort to find the missing little girl and they'd work just as hard to find me if I went missing" or they'll decide " They slacked off. They ate donuts while that girl was in a shack. Those people might not help me if I get into trouble, either". ( I do not believe this happened in Jayme Closs's case at all). I believe what Gitana1 has posted, obviously.

The police at the presser were sending a message of " We are trustworthy" in their press conference, as I saw it. Also, they DID NOT LIE. Trust vs. mistrust is both basic and essential when speaking with authority about an event this significant and all other kidnappings and murders we weather and grieve as well.

They did not say " You can trust us to solve the case" or " We found her despite great odds". They gave the bare facts of how she escaped, was found, and suspect was apprehended close by, which I DO give them credit for the apprehension.
I'm going to say it now: Because of what happened to me in the blink of an eye, I had wondered if a former cop or related experienced person might have kidnapped Jayme- because one kidnapped ME. The mindset of " If it happened to me, it could happen to her" and because it happened in the blink of an eye when I was aware of him following me in his state car, of stalking me relentlessly. ( The police had no anti-stalking laws in the timeframe when this happened to me but this all changed soon afterwards, and my case was a part of it changing in the former state where I resided).

However, for those who don't know and want to know how a mature savvy person has this happen to them, briefly he was a lying stranger, a psychopathic State Policeman who lied and stole my natural trust and misused it. I was the RN director of an acute care in- home 24 hour care agency and I called my state nursing board for assistance from their investigators authorized to investigate the theft of drugs from a patient's home by a lone nurse on duty on the night we believe the drugs disappeared. I had to work with him regarding one of my home health nurses who apparently stole a large amount of a controlled drug. It was a matter of giving him personnel records related to the past year, the drug records from the patient's home and the nursing notes they wrote during their shifts for 2 whole days before they decided they couldn't find the morphine drip and needed to make the dreaded call to their Director ( me).
Probably, I should have seen the signs of obsession developing after the very cut and dried work was done, but I was already in an unusual position historically.

I still do not understand the reasons, but for many years, I was the young nurse who got flowers delivered by florists from unknown admirers and patients and former patients expressing their gratitude, and poems, portraits drawn or painted by long term patients like burn patients. I was the one who got the presents left in my office with no I.D. from male co-workers and also male co-worker strangers to the point that I had a warped sense of what " normal" behavior was. I gave back many gifts of jewelry, cash, you name it, because nurses can't accept any compensation from clients. Our patients could have 8 or more nurses in and out their rooms in 24 hours, but over and over, regardless of the time of day or night, they'd call out my not common name over the intercom.

I cared very much during the years I refer to about being safe while still living a carefree, happy, giving professional demeanor, but as Gitana1 says, you cannot reliably predict what's never happened to you before.

Because of Jayme's very young age and lack of experience with a grown man who was almost an absolute stranger or was an absolute taking a young girl from her home like she was a specimen of a butterfly instead of a human being with a life of her own, it absolutely could not have been predicted from what is known at this time.

Also, some guys can act totally over the moon crazy about a girl or young woman and NEVER do anything improper.. It's a good world, but sometimes, it's a very wild world.

We need mental health care screenings for everyone, and free care and medications including inpatient care for over 48 hours ( the current norm) more than we need almost anything else in this country for the safety of all of us.

A victim is not at fault, and with the grace of God and luck, becomes a survivor. Jayme is a fellow survivor and I am so proud of her and happy for her safety!

Thank you for sharing your story, and thank God you are alive to tell it. Hugs.

 

[KariKae]

PEOPLE.com | Celebrity News, Exclusives, Photos, and Videos

Sorry - I don't know how to do the photograph thing

 

[MCDRAW]

Keeping kids in yards does not help, if they are being stalked and you don’t know how. We may never know, if ne does not confess.

It's scary when you realize, regardless of how hard we try we may not be able to protect our children.

 

[Tim Constas]

And what could possibly have helped LE identify this killer sooner

Apparently nothing. He outsmarted LE and the FBI but he grossly underestimated his 13 year old captive. I'm in no way disparaging LE, they appear to have done what they could, it's more luck that JP got away with it.

 

[Inthedetails]

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[kkdj]

I am finally caught up and I don't know where to begin.

I did not expect this outcome. The moment the sheriff stated in that interview that he insisted Jayme was alive because of his "gut feeling" I'd given up hope that she would be found alive.

She is a badass. No other words can describe her. The dog walker is also incredibly wise to quickly get her away from the public, especially now that we know the criminal was prowling to find her. If there's a legitimate account set up for Jayme, I would happily donate. I have a feeling her case is one that I will follow for years to come.

BBM
Couldn't have said it better! She's been thru so much and found her way out!
She still has a lot to go thru, but with love and kindness now. She's a hero in my eyes!