Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Mistermagoo]

I was simply saying that if they saw the stolen plates, they would be able to id the owner of the stolen car plates.

It reminds me of the Wetterling case where info was out there but ignored. Sorry, but that Taurus was on the scene. Right there. That person could have been a witness to seeing something. They did not know it was the perp, but xertainly they knew the car was there.

They were getting info about the id’d cars from all over the US. They could have run the info as to who owned such a car in WI. The DVM has that info.

That was a big error, I feel. One that is a no brainer. That is an old junker.

And someone said that a worker at fhe cheese factory might be skeeved out by him . It freaks me out that info was not put out there.

That is the other thing. I forgot about the Cheese Factory. If they would have put out that they were looking for the Taurus and one distinction that they may know the car has is a black thing sticking out from its front grill then maybe one of his co workers would have said hey this guy stopped working here around that time and he had a car like that.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't feel the need to re-hash the actions of LE at this point. Jayme is safe now...for all we know she would have been killed if LE had closed in on JP and her any sooner. Although this will always be a tragic, immeasurably sad story, as far as endings go, this is as good as we could have hoped for at this point.
We now know (which I believed all along), that little Jayme was not in any way complicit in this.....she is the pure innocent little girls she always was, plus she is a brave heroine! Her parents would be so very proud.
I am so glad she has additional family she is already close to, that can stay by her side through all the upcoming difficult times. Childhood trauma and PTSD is all too real, and if you've never witnessed it, consider yourself blessed indeed. I'd give any amount of money to be ignorant of the horrors of it.
My prayers will continue for her, and for her family.

 

[Tim Constas]

Maybe this was already mentioned, but Wisconsin requires both front and back license plates. Wouldn’t a missing front plate raise the suspicion of LE, at least in retrospect?

Ordinarily he may have been pulled over but the 911 call took precedent ovet a motor vehicle violation.

 

[JCzMum]

Mother of JTP is a Barron County School bus driver...... WHAT???!

LE are not calling this anything more than an “uncomfortable coincidence”

Just wow

Mother of 21-year-old accused of kidnapping Jayme Closs is 'scared to leave home' | Daily Mail Online

 

[MsJosie]

It’s easy to sit back now and second guess the police for what they didn’t do on the way to the scene. Second guessers have the luxury of knowing what happened in the house and the eventual outcome. The officers responding to the house knew almost nothing except for a 911 hang up call with the sound of screaming. Believe it or not in real police work this kind of call is nothing to get excited about because it happens from time to time.

Some posters are of the opinion that the police should have stopped or recorded the tag number of the red Ford. Let’s examine the option of recording the tag number. Since this car didn’t have a front tag it would have meant that police car #1, traveling at 60-70 mph, meeting the getaway car traveling at 40-50 mph, would have a closing distance of about 110 mph. Think about that. It would have taken police car #1 a minute to turn around and then maybe 2 minutes to catch up with the red Ford. Complete waste of time because 9999 times out of 10,000 the occupants of the Ford would have been Aunt Sally and her neighbor returning from church.

What about the other cars on the road going in the opposite direction? Should they all be stopped? Of course not.

Then you run the chance of a 4th Anendment issue. Let’s say the Ford is stopped with Jayme in the trunk with absolutely no probable cause. None except for the fact that it was traveling in the opposite direction of a house where (in the minds of the police) no crime had been committed. Had that been the case the entire case could have been thrown out of court due to a 4th Amendment violation. No probable cause to stop the car and as a result everything that flows from the traffic stop is inadmissible and you would have a guy walk from two murder charges and a Kidnapping charge.

Thank you for the input. It is hard for some people ‘on the other side’ to understand....I will leave it there....just Thank You.

 

[human]

I, for one, don't consider them intentional lies. I think in some cases it is hard to keep facts in mind when the situation is changing rapidly. Just consider this website. Also, we seemed to take any comment from LE as a solid fact ( four/for minutes, 5 feet, red cars and black SUVs to name a few) we put a lot more weight on those comments that LE did when they said them because we have to or what else would we discuss and dissect endlessly. And, I guess I don't feel that LE owes me anything as a member of the general public except to warn me if I am in danger.

Yes, they owe the public and the family and the child. They made a huge error in not reporting the car to the public.

People were scouring everything to find the reported cars, I have no doubt people would have been turning over every rock for that Taurus.

Huge mistakes were made in the Wetterling case. Here is another huge mistake that I hope is instructive for LE.

Not only does the public exist with info, but they have access to the DVM.

 

[human]

Last evening I listened to the 911 call.

I was overwhelmed by the calmness of the 911 operator, Amy Pullen, and how she used her gift to keep the others on the line calm.

Ms. Pullen's reassurances and her clear instructions, along with continuing to ask how everyone was doing, showed how outstanding she is. Her voice was so calm and she explained everything that would happen.

I listened in wonder at the kind and calming voices of the people in the cabin, in the background, as they spoke with Jayme.

They somehow instilled an atmosphere of "normalness" in the situation which was anything but normal.

Even the occasional laughter from them in the background, talking about the dog hopping onto Jayme's lap, may have even kept Jayme from going into shock.

Such an amazing group of people, who, thankfully, found themselves in the midst of a kidnapped girl who courageously escaped and ran for help.

I still find it all astonishing and am deeply grateful, as we all are, how this all came about after Jayme escaped.

Officials release 911 call in Jayme Closs case

I do not know the training of WI, but I assume it is the same. There is one year of training which is very intense. They go along on calls with LE to see how that works.

I have a friend whose relative recently finished the training.

 

[Karinna]

That is the other thing. I forgot about the Cheese Factory. If they would have put out that they were looking for the Taurus and one distinction that they may know the car has is a black thing sticking out from its front grill then maybe one of his co workers would have said hey this guy stopped working here around that time and he had a car like that.

Do we know how long JP drove that particular vehicle for? It was apparently his sister's car. It also had a stolen tag on it too didn't it and no front tag?
I gather his sister up and left her vehicle at the property and JP lived at the property all by himself?

 

[Quill]

If he had it with him and loaded it may have. If Denise had it I would hope she would of blown a hole in that 's chest. A mistake James made was looking out that door window. I wouldn't do that but my life experience is probably different than James.

The real issue is that good, none violent people, are never prepared for violence. The violent person is ready and willing to inflict harm. Good people don't expect violence and many freeze rather than flee or fight. Not that I am a violent person by any means. Rather I understand the possible threats.

That Jayme didn't freeze and stay under the bed is a testament to her moving beyond being cowered and frozen with fear. So many people freeze or surrender to fear rather than turning it around and fighting back.

BBM

This is so very well said. This situation has me thinking about how I would handle a situation like this. I think cameras are in my future. I can see my driveway from a window that no one would know I was looking through, but not my immediate front door.

 

[human]

Last evening I listened to the 911 call.

I was overwhelmed by the calmness of the 911 operator, Amy Pullen, and how she used her gift to keep the others on the line calm.

Ms. Pullen's reassurances and her clear instructions, along with continuing to ask how everyone was doing, showed how outstanding she is. Her voice was so calm and she explained everything that would happen.

I listened in wonder at the kind and calming voices of the people in the cabin, in the background, as they spoke with Jayme.

They somehow instilled an atmosphere of "normalness" in the situation which was anything but normal.

Even the occasional laughter from them in the background, talking about the dog hopping onto Jayme's lap, may have even kept Jayme from going into shock.

Such an amazing group of people, who, thankfully, found themselves in the midst of a kidnapped girl who courageously escaped and ran for help.

I still find it all astonishing and am deeply grateful, as we all are, how this all came about after Jayme escaped.

Officials release 911 call in Jayme Closs case

Also, teachers especially middle school teachers are used to volatile situations and have to use good techniques all day everyday. I forget how many decisions teachers have to make each mimute.

Teachers are therapists, social workers, etc all day long everyday.

The social worker worked in the most volatile of situations so she knows the most ugly of people.

The people that the police deal with were students once upon a time, usually , unless homeschooled. The right words and techniques are needed especially in middle school when hormones are at play.

This was mind blowing but I bet the teacher and the CPS worker have been in some mind blowing situations already in the past

 

[ACG2x]

Strong assumption that some type of SA happened - why else would he want a 13-year old - however investigators have said they aren't going to push Jayme to talk about everything related to her abduction. She can share at her pace. It's a very smart move because you aren't forcing her to relive the horrific ordeal so soon and give her time to heal. He's locked up and isn't getting out so there's really no rush to push a SA case as they have him confessing to kidnapping and double homicide.

At this point, I'm assuming that investigators hope the killer pleads guilty and they can lock him up forever without having to even go the SA route. That too may be best for Jayme so she can talk about that only in private to family members or a therapist if she chooses.

 

[Falcon500]

Falcon500, I think the question people are asking is: why the Sheriff didn't asked the public for information about a red Ford Taurus ? Not why the deputies didnt pull the car over on the way to the crime scene. The only thing I can think of: is that the FBI didnt want to spook Patterson in to murdering Jayme, since they were so sure that she was still alive; which in my mind, would make sense.

As another thought: my question is - why none of the deputies did a BOLO, or search for the Taurus, once they realized they were looking at a double homicide, with no weapons on scene? Out in those woods Falcon500, seeing ANY car on the road at that time of night would be unusual. It's not like the city.

Why not the green Toyota, the blue Chevrolet, the gray Honda, and all of the other cars that were traveling the opposite way. I am still sure that I haven’t gotten the point across that hindsight is 20-20.

 

[ilovechili]

That is weird. Was she visible to some people?

That is what it made me wonder.... Do they have all perps or at least all people that knew? (Even if they pretended they did not in front of her...?) just wondering, imo.

 

[Quill]

With respect, I don’t think we know that he wasn’t schizophrenic. I don’t think we know he was not hurt or abused or that he didn’t fall through any cracks.

There’s still very little known about and his family. The few reports from schoolmates have been very conflicting. So it’s sheer speculation (not fact) that no one was alarmed about him. It seems to me the only people we’ve heard of that have encountered him in recent years is his family (dad, grandparents) and they aren’t talking.

The ex-boyfriend of JP's sister sheds a different light on JP than anyone else I have seen interviewed. He also gives more insight into the family dynamics.

'There was something very flat and emotionless about him. There was nothing behind his eyes. I remember feeling that even back then.'


Here: Mother of 21-year-old accused of kidnapping Jayme Closs is 'scared to leave home' | Daily Mail Online

 

[stephlovescheese]

Dear @stephlovescheese,

You'll want to watch this video as well!

Thank you @Rallibella, for posting this link. It is wonderful to hear the 911 dispatcher, Ms. Pullen, share her experience of the call, in her own words.

@zencompass Thank you! I'll watch it tonight too!

 

[appleeye]

Gosh I hope people leave his parents and siblings alone. Victims also in this. No one has a child in hopes that they turn out this way. Makes me feel ill.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs, whose parents were murdered during her abduction, will not have to testify in court, prosecutors said today.

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs will not have to give evidence in court against her abductor | Daily Mail Online

I’m really glad about this.

With respect, that is not exactly what the DA actually said.

The question was: “If this goes to trial are you going to have to have JC testify?”.

DA answered: “That’s a decision that will be made much later than today. At this point we have no intention of having her testify in any proceedings coming up”.

Source: press conference with Barron & Douglas county DAs, immediately following first court hearing 14/1/2019.

 

[human]

I just watched John Walsh on GMA and he said in his ten years with Missing and Exploited Children, he doesn't find him seeing her at a bus stop and zeroing in on her all that rare. He stated children are most vulnerable going and coming from school and that there are "bus surfers" who are pedophiles who follow school busses and watch for children.

I don't have a link because I watched this live on TV just now.

Years ago in MN, a boy was taken from a rural bus stop. He was the grandson of a politician. I forget if he was killed or what.

Anyway, in all my years as a teached and a parent, I have never heard of vus surfing. This info should be giving to all parents every year.

After Jacob Wetterling was kidnapped, I saw in town that kids always waited in groups with a parent.

Because it is so cold, some people have made little bus shelters for their kids at the end of their driveways out in the country. But this is simply for one family as the bus stops at each driveway .

What a nightmare.

 

[bellyup]

Even if someone in your family expresses some characteristics of mental illness, what do you suggest they should do? There is no help for uninsured people in the US. He tried to get into the military, he likely is not disabled enough to file for SSI. If a 21 year old family member can't hold down a job and seems "off" - there is almost nothing you can do. You can't even legally take their firearms. They have done nothing wrong - yet. The only thing you can do is wait for them to break the law so you can get the police involved. That's it.

This isn’t true.
There’s a LOT that can be done.

For starters in many states you can dial 211 (United Way First Call for help). They can get social workers involved who will work to get the necessary mental health services involved usually at the states cost.

If 211 isn’t available you have the option of going directly to your center for families and children or “welfare” office. They too, have information on how to obtain free or low cost mental health services (out or in patient).

Finally, you CAN call police on someone who is exhibiting mental health concerns. Once police are called in many states there’s an involuntary transfer to a mental health facility for a 24-48 hour evaluation. After that time the person can check themselves out.

But NOT if you immediately petition the courts with evidence as to why it should last longer or why the adult needs in hospital treatment, a guardian or someone supervising them. You can ask the judge to name you guardian or ask that the person become a ward of the state (who then assigns social workers to get involved).

Please, let’s not perpetuate the “there is nothing you can do” line of thinking. There’s a lot you can do. A lot of it is timeconsuming and demanding but it can be done and people need to be aware of the vast amount of services that are available to them.

 

[taximama24]

Have not read all previous threads so apologies if already discussed. With regard to the 911 call, dispatch said they heard screaming but did not indicate they heard conversation. JC said when JP came into the bathroom he told her mom to hang up the phone (JP doesn't mention the phone or knowing DC had called 911 at all in his account). They had to be pretty close to each other in the bathroom, I would expect the dispatcher would have been able to hear him say that if he did (and if dispatch heard a voice say "hang up the phone" I would expect LE would have known for sure they were heading into an active crime and radioed to have a backup follow the only car leaving the area).

Also, JC said JP told DC to tape JC's mouth, and she did. She doesn't mention that it was JP that did it or that it went all the way around her head either (and that would have been memorable because duct tape in hair is not just "coming off", that is either getting cut out which there would be evidence of, or painfully ripping hair from the scalp). However, JP says he gave DC the roll to tape JC's mouth but she was struggling so he did it himself. And he said he wrapped it all the way around her head, and then did her ankles and wrists too. So why did he add that embellishment when it doesn't appear to be what he did. JP also says he had two pair of gloves on, how was he able to work with the Gorilla duct tape roll at all with two pairs of gloves on?

And the timing seems almost implausible, I don't know why it jumps out at me, but the call came in at 12:53 and in that time he gets into the bathroom, struggles with some duct tape with gloves on, wraps her head, hands, and ankles, shoots DC, picks up JC and struggles to get her out of the house (slips in blood, tries to carry her, etc), then drags her across a yard, stops to open the drivers door and pop the trunk, drags to the trunk, lifts her and gets her into it and then gets in the car and removes his mask and leaves the driveway...that just seems like a lot to do in 7 min for the average guy. (and we don't know if DC started the call right after the shots were fired, if so then JP also says he ran around and checked the rest of the house before forcing his way into the bathroom, so add that into the 7 min)