Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[kkdj]

Agree, it could of been someone passing through on a road trip.

Could have been. But it was the only car they passed on the way to the Closs's. Of course getting to the Closs's right away was of upmost importance, but then realizing the crime scene being homicides, that one vehicle should have had a bolo put out immediately imo.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Just FYI - It appears that all neighboring states that share a land border with WI require two license plates. Here’s the map. It makes it more likely that the Taurus actually had a missing plate.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/10/how-many-states-require-front-license-plates/

ETA - “almost all”

 

[kkdj]

The initial crime of kidnapping and murder feels well thought out (he bought a mask, changed the license plate, wiped down the bullets, chose a gun that would be hard to trace, staked out their house, modified his vehicle,etc). The aftermath of crime, actually holding Jayme at his house, doesn't feel well thought out at all.

BBM
Except he kept her for 3 months before she escaped. Plus he kept doing the same way of keeping her imprisoned. It wasn't elaborate, as he had no money, but it worked for 3 months.

 

[Karinna]

...then why are more kidnappings not like this one?
....this kind seems like a lot could go wrong--for one [ a huge mistake ]--the police are called immediately during the crime!

Yes, he wouldn't really know or be able to predict anything until he went through with it.

 

[bronk4]

The initial crime of kidnapping and murder feels well thought out (he bought a mask, changed the license plate, wiped down the bullets, chose a gun that would be hard to trace, staked out their house, modified his vehicle,etc). The aftermath of crime, actually holding Jayme at his house, doesn't feel well thought out at all.

...a well thought out crime does not have the cops being called during the crime--plain and simple
...maybe he was organized--but it was not well thought out

 

[Auntie Cipation]

It had an empty plate holder, though, and so it appeared that something was missing. I don’t know about the other states that border WI, but Illinois also requires two plates.

Car manufacturers are going to include brackets for both front and rear plates on pretty much all cars, since they don't know where (in which state, with which front-plate laws) each car will be sold/reside. IMO

 

[mtnlites]

BBM
Except he kept her for 3 months before she escaped. Plus he kept doing the same way of keeping her imprisoned. It wasn't elaborate, as he had no money, but it worked for 3 months.

It did work for 3 months, but I"m not sure it's because it was well thought out. When you look at other people who have kidnapped women and held them for long periods of time, they've already created a "place" in which to hold them-usually rooms with restraints. Jaycee Duggard was kept in a compound built outside. Castro's victims were chained up in the basement and later in separate rooms. Fritzl constructed a series of rooms in his basement. Natascha Kampusch was held in a basement room with a hidden door constructed for her kidnapping. For all the work he put into modifying his vehicle, for Jayme's place of captivity he put her under his bed. And not in a box, like in the Colleen Stan case, but literally just under his bed. It seems that he relied on terror to keep her there, not physical restraints that others have used. And perhaps that was his plan all along. I don't know.

 

[mtnlites]

...a well thought out crime does not have the cops being called during the crime--plain and simple
...maybe he was organized--but it was not well thought out

A plan can be well thought out and still go wrong.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Car manufacturers are going to include brackets for both front and rear plates on pretty much all cars, since they don't know where (in which state, with which front-plate laws) each car will be sold/reside. IMO

True. But in the two states I lived in that didn’t require a front plate, most people either put something in that bracket (some kind of plate that was personal to them) or they removed the bracket. Seeing an empty bracket was very rare. I noticed this type of thing simply because I never got used to the way a car looked with only one plate, having grown up in a state with two plates. It always looked “off” to me, so I noticed. I assume it would also look “off” to a cop whose job it is to notice things like this.

 

[Karinna]

Could have been. But it was the only car they passed on the way to the Closs's. Of course getting to the Closs's right away was of upmost importance, but then realizing the crime scene being homicides, that one vehicle should have had a bolo put out immediately imo.

But would a perp. that had just committed a double murder and kidnap of a minor with her in the vehicle be driving around so calmly on a highway not drawing any attention to themselves by not speeding away from the crime scene? But i see what you're saying, at least LE could of thought the person they seen could of witnessed something?

 

[kkdj]

...then why are more kidnappings not like this one?
....this kind seems like a lot could go wrong--for one [ a huge mistake ]--the police are called immediately during the crime!

Now we know for sure that he was aware 911 had been called as he ordered Denise to hang it up. This put him in a hurry. Otherwise he might have stayed a little longer doing who knows what.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

True. But in the two states I lived in that didn’t require a front plate, most people either put something in that bracket (some kind of plate that was personal to them) or they removed the bracket. Seeing an empty bracket was very rare. I noticed this type of thing simply because I never got used to the way a car looked with only one plate, having grown up in a state with two plates. It always looked “off” to me, so I noticed. I assume it would also look “off” to a cop whose job it is to notice things like this.

Actually, on second thought, I can tell you that two of our cars that were bought new at dealerships in the south had NO brackets in the front. Currently, one of those vehicles now has a front plate on it with no brackets. So technically, manufacturers only need to include the screw holes for a plate. Front brackets are not a given, at least not in the state I was in that required only one plate.

 

[bronk4]

A plan can be well thought out and still go wrong.

dog + locked door/etc= time to call 911-which she did
we have a dog and inside/outside doors locked = time to call 911 if some even attempts to break in

so he shoots into the house and thinks no one will call 911??!
he should know the kids should have cell phones 24/7/etc
something ''goes wrong'' immediately
bold for emphasis only

 

[ilovepierre]

Does anyone remember what kind of car the two women were in who were driving around after the crime took place?

IIRC, it was a truck.

 

[Karinna]

I imagine per the CC that LE still didn't really know about the vehicle in question even after Jayme's rescue, because as the red vehicle drove past the female LE officer she asked Jayme if that was the perp.'s vehicle and Jayme said she didn't know.

 

[mtnlites]

dog + locked door/etc= time to call 911-which she did
we have a dog and inside/outside doors locked = time to call 911 if some even attempts to break in

so he shoots into the house and thinks no one will call 911??!
he should know the kids should have cell phones 24/7/etc
something ''goes wrong'' immediately
bold for emphasis only

I didn't say that it was a good plan or one that would work, just that it was thought out beforehand, which remains my opinion.

 

[Lavender Moon]

every one every where should lock their doors
not be looking for murderers everyday every where, but should be aware

Amen

 

[Gracie55]

Did he have a place to hide the red Taurus out of sight?
I feel pretty sure LE was targeting the car. They're not going to ignore a vehicle they have on camera going away from the scene they passed on the way.

Maybe they'd have followed up on any stolen plate incidents and got some sort of evidence from that scene.

I just remember hearing something on tv where le seemed so sure Jayme was still out there.

They had something his certainty was based on. I'm so glad she got out before JP got tired of her and she became a liability he had to discard.

 

[Quill]

I think if anything should be learned from this situation. It would be not to answer the door, but find a safe spot, away from doors and windows, and keep your phone and firearm in hand. Wait and listen to what the person does.

I think the bottom line here is: no stranger should be knocking on your door in the middle of the night.

This should be a message to all of us to ramp up security around our homes.

I have to admit to feeling the same as you although it does make me sad. My family lived along a rural state highway when I was a teenager and we heard scratching and bumping on our front screen door in the middle of the night. After looking out the windows and seeing no cars or people, my dad went back to bed. The sounds did not stop so he finally opened the door and was shocked to find a badly injured and bleeding young guy laying at our door on our porch. He had wrecked his car on the highway and had dragged himself more that the length of a football field. Who knows what would have happened had my dad not gone back to the door? Evil in this world makes it risky for good people to do good things for others. SMH

 

[Quill]

If Jayme had not been awakened by her barking dog and hadn't gone to her parents' room, I honestly think that JP would have simply broken into the house and killed the parents in their beds while they slept. I don't think there's anything they could've done differently in this case.

I 100% agree with you on this.