Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[MassGuy]

sounds like he was worried she would escape
bold mine
Complaint reveals chilling details of Jayme Closs' abduction, captivity

Of course he was. But he wasn’t worried enough to leave her unsupervised.

 

[AbbyG]

She will. Just like Elizabeth Smart did. And Jaycee Dugard. And Katie Beers. It won't be easy, but she will not only survive, but thrive. I have no doubt about that.

The difference is that they had a loving parent or parents to return home to. I believe she will survive and thrive with her loving aunts, but that difference is enormous. It is a difficult grief to lose both parents at once in the best of circumstances. This is just beyond. I did wonder when people said she looked tired or sad in some pictures -- well she lost her parents! It may be that as she recovers from the ordeal of the kidnapping, that grief of losing her beloved mom and dad will be worse for a time.

 

[SeekingJana]

I don’t believe him because he seems truthful, I believe him because what he says jibes with the known facts here.

This all rings true for me.

The fact that " What he says jibes with the known facts" means 2 related things to me.

1) Sociopaths want to look extremely important and successful and powerful in evil criminal ways.

2) There's SO MUCH we do not know except from the Criminal Complaint. I am not meaning SA, but a captor and captive living in the same house for 88 days. Unless he was almost inert, he did things and it's likely he knows he made what he considers to be " mistakes". He just can't admit it. Bundy never did! Never.

IMO, IF anything happened that night and for the 88 days in total which wasn't " what a killer and kidnapper SHOULD DO" , I do not think he will volunteer the information. Like, maybe Jayme wasn't the only one with wet clothing in that car. Anything that would make him look inept or incompetent to the police and the public are things we will have to find out another way, IMO, IF we actually have a need to know these things.

 

[ab01]

Who said anything about opening the garage door? That's how fast I would have been moving after seeing someone shot and killed..

No you probably would have froze like many people would. How does it help to speculate about what they could or could not of done? They were innocent victims who were awoken and probably disoriented and confused. SMH

 

[MassGuy]

not if each went a different way
the shotgun would hinder his running
Jayme would be ''hell bent'' on surviving

Absolutely not. The shotgun wouldn’t hinder anything.

A mother is not going to let her terrified child go in a different direction.

A terrified child is not going to leave her mother.

This is absolutely pointless.

 

[bechk45]

not if each went a different way
the shotgun would hinder his running
Jayme would be ''hell bent'' on surviving

How??? The only way out was through the living area where JP was. Are they going to shove him out of the way? The best bet was to hope the police got there fast enough.

 

[bronk4]

Of course he was. But he wasn’t worried enough to leave her unsupervised.

so he's worried--but that is not causing him to stress?
....well, we know he's not a brainiac---so leaving her unsupervised does not prove he wasn't worrying about her escaping per my link--yes?

 

[MassGuy]

so he's worried--but that is not causing him to stress?
....well, we know he's not a brainiac---so leaving her unsupervised does not prove he wasn't worrying about her escaping per my link--yes?

My point is this:

Over time, his stress would have dissipated.

Leaving her alone for long periods of time, is an indication that his stress dissipated.

This does not mean that it was nonexistent.

 

[The Dude]

The difference is that they had a loving parent or parents to return home to. I believe she will survive and thrive with her loving aunts, but that difference is enormous. It is a difficult grief to lose both parents at once in the best of circumstances. This is just beyond. I did wonder when people said she looked tired or sad in some pictures -- well she lost her parents! It may be that as she recovers from the ordeal of the kidnapping, that grief of losing her beloved mom and dad will be worse for a time.

I never said it would be easy.

I'd just rather send out optimistic vibes than the alternatives.

 

[bronk4]

My point is this:

Over time, his stress would have dissipated.

Leaving her alone for long periods of time, is an indication that his stress dissipated.

This does not mean that it was nonexistent.

ok--roger that

 

[Jabarn]

My point is this:

Over time, his stress would have dissipated.

Leaving her alone for long periods of time, is an indication that his stress dissipated.

This does not mean that it was nonexistent.

I wonder what JP’s stress level was like on Saturdays when his dad came to visit? Did he expect to be hiding Jayme under the bed and turning up the music for years to come?

The pictures of that house from the inside look like they were taken 30 years ago. Nothing has changed... pictures, decorations and furniture all look like I remember my grandmother’s house from when I was small. Nothing personal like a 21 year old would have to suggest this was his space. All in all, it’s a depressing, neglected house. IMO.

 

[SeekingJana]

Demolition costs a fortune.

Why would she ever want to see the house of horror again?

In the US, as far as I know, it's against the law to start that type of fire with gas lines around and so forth. We don't burn down structures as far as I know. We have them taken apart and the land is cleanly reclaimed and vacant.

It is a place where death and great harm was inflicted one night, but if we knew the histories and addresses of many homes, we might find out that they once had a violent event ending in murder as well. There are people who will purchase and live in a house where a violent crime occurred and they are aware that it happened. Some people have little to no awareness or personal perception of violence and horror... We are all different.

Time will tell and we may never know what happens to the house. It could stand empty and decay on its own. IDK the legalities, if any, regarding vacant property in that area.

 

[PommyMommy]

Lengthy article but well worth the read.

How did Jake Patterson's life lead to Jayme Closs?
Teachers and classmates at his small country school described him as smart and quick-witted — quiet, but not a loner. He had friends and was well-accepted among the 34 members of the Class of 2015 at Northwood School, most of whom had been together since kindergarten.

He played video games, board games — “Risk” was a favorite — and devoured Tom Clancy spy novels.

So what could possibly have transformed this lean, prematurely balding and reserved young man into the alleged perpetrator of a brutal crime that shocked a nation?

“Something just got stuck in his head,” said JM, Patterson’s maternal grandfather. “I can’t imagine anybody thinking about this, let alone doing it.”

In Haugen, a village of about 270 residents some 45 miles south of Gordon and home to Patterson’s mother, DF, few noticed Jake when he visited. “It’s a very close-knit town,” said one resident. “If you haven’t been here three generations, people don’t really know you.”

Frey, who drives a school bus for the nearby Rice Lake district, has lived in town only a short time, but locals know who she is by the bus that’s sometimes parked in front of her home.

“She’s friendly. She’d wave when she went by,” said JH, owner of the Village Grocery. Hill said last week that he didn’t see Jake often, but remembers him stopping in the store occasionally for cigarettes.

“Marlboros,” Hill said.

“It’s profoundly sad. It’s not ordinary sad,” Moyer said softly. “We lost our grandson, too. It’s like a death.”

Said Fisher, Patterson’s best friend: “I’ve been trying to figure it out, and I can’t.”

(names changed to initials by me)

 

[Anance]

I think the bottom line here is: no stranger should be knocking on your door in the middle of the night.

This happened to me. I was up late working (3AM) and a man parked his small pickup (w/darkened windows) and knocked on the door asking for directions and pointing north. He was clean cut and had an educated accent. My neighborhood is relatively safe. I immediately started screaming, ran to my sister room and woke her up and she started screaming and the pug went insane (she barks above her weight), all the lights went on including the porch light. Finally, I said, what do want (yes, I made the mistake of trying to interact) and young man just apologized, said was leaving and left in the opposite direction (south).

I wondered what it was that made me so afraid of this man - apart from time, he was clean cut, well-spoken, he had small but well-maintained pickup. Thinking back it was his knock. He knocked like a person with authority - 3 knocks - like you would give to a kid's (who's in trouble) closed door, or a like boss needing to enter a closed room. Not the knock of person looking for help.

My answer to someone knocking at an odd time of night: commotion, threats to the call the police and all lights on!! Don't be afraid to make a scene. And, yes, I think I saw him later walking his dog and he turned around and walked the other way when he saw me.

 

[MemPat]

It's good to remember that lots of people are murdered by someone they know so all the locks in the world might not help.

 

[The Dude]

In the US, as far as I know, it's against the law to start that type of fire with gas lines around and so forth. We don't burn down structures as far as I know. We have them taken apart and the land is cleanly reclaimed and vacant.

It is a place where death and great harm was inflicted one night, but if we knew the histories and addresses of many homes, we might find out that they once had a violent event ending in murder as well. There are people who will purchase and live in a house where a violent crime occurred and they are aware that it happened. Some people have little to no awareness or personal perception of violence and horror... We are all different.

Time will tell and we may never know what happens to the house. It could stand empty and decay on its own. IDK the legalities, if any, regarding vacant property in that area.

FWIW, there are times when single family homes are used for fire training. Police, too. I'm not seeing that happening with this house (if only because of all the trees). You may be right about someone buying that house and not caring what happened there. I wouldn't live there, but I've considered purchasing it just to find out where the stairs are.

 

[moonlessnight]

I have wondered this too. The disbelief of what you're seeing and from what I've heard, James was pretty capable of handling most situations, maybe kept James off balance enough that things didn't register, or maybe he felt he could get rid of the creep.

I am curious about his walking down the driveway and the dad shining the flashlight.

Wouldn’t his gun be visible?

And the face covering?

Not that I am criticizing James. No, a million times no.

He kind of thought the killer may be LE but not really.

I don’t think most people in their wildest dreams would imagine the monster from he**

 

[SeekingJana]

I wonder what JP’s stress level was like on Saturdays when his dad came to visit? Did he expect to be hiding Jayme under the bed and turning up the music for years to come?

The pictures of that house from the inside look like they were taken 30 years ago. Nothing has changed... pictures, decorations and furniture all look like I remember my grandmother’s house from when I was small. Nothing personal like a 21 year old would have to suggest this was his space. All in all, it’s a depressing, neglected house. IMO.

One thing- He would perceive " stress" as YOU ANNOYING MAN, JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY AND GROCERIES I DESERVE AND LEAVE NOW.

The house looks like it does because his family may have been eccentric when they lived there.. Later, when it became his property to inhabit, a Sociopath has little to NO need for THINGS beyond their own internal list of pleasurable activities or pursuits whether legal or illegal.

We can probably describe the disorder of the entire setting better than he can by a HUGE measure. HIS world is not OUR world as far as the upkeep of a house or even interest in the house.

What I wonder is " Did his father KNOW this young man was so sick?" He'd had years to form sociopathic traits. He was adept at hiding almost every emotion by this age. But did his dad leave him alone in that house because of fear and possibly loathing?

 

[CuriousMaine]

No you probably would have froze like many people would. How does it help to speculate about what they could or could not of done? They were innocent victims who were awoken and probably disoriented and confused. SMH

I recall I said early on: I carry a firearm every day, everywhere (lawful). I'm a certified pistol instructor and rifle(wo)man who trains regularly on the range (as well as in a boxing gym). Yet I'm under no false delusion that I could have survived this.

Few people are prepared to run, fight or engage in a shootout in their home; awakened in the middle of the night, dog barking, guns going off, loved ones screaming...geesh, no.

Sure, I could write some delightful Hollywood script ending where I, although traumatized after seeing my husband shot at close range, still manage to flee with my also traumatized teen; dodging and outrunning bullets, we outsmart the well-prepared/planned and armed perpetrator; plowing our car (which the gunman luckily doesn't hear start) through a closed garage door.

But that's not how real life work, unfortunately.

 

[PommyMommy]

There are some details in this article about JP's earlier years that I don't think I've read before.

How did Jake Patterson's life lead to Jayme Closs?
The divorce decree provided scant details other than outlining the financial arrangements and joint child custody. Both parents were required to take a class titled “Effects of Divorce on Children.”

Moyer said the divorce bothered Jake, “like it would any kid.” But he’s not sure of the lasting impact.

As Frey moved from one local town to another over the years, Jake began spending more time at his father’s home in Gordon, according to VF, whose son Dylan was a close friend of Jake’s through middle school and high school.

Fisher said to his knowledge, Patterson never dated. In fact, he never discussed the topic. “He never said anything [about girls],” Fisher said. “It never seemed to be a pressing concern.”

Three months after graduating, Patterson headed for the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. But he returned to Gordon after five weeks, a washout as a Marine Corps private.

It was a bitter experience, Patterson’s grandfather said.

“It was profoundly disappointing when he didn’t make it in the Marines,” Moyer said. “He had health issues. He wasn’t able to hold up to the regimen.”

Asked what the health issues were, Moyer replied, “It was internal.”

Once back home, Patterson distanced himself from his high school friends.

Fisher said he tried several times to reach him in the months after graduation but never got a response.

“I haven’t talked to him in three years,” Fisher said.