AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

[VeryVeritas]

Okay. Sorry, I should have replied to the original poster. As for somebody local, there's just no way to tell. In the MT case, I had the feeling it was somebody who just happened to be in town, while others felt it was somebody in her immediate circle. It turned out to be somewhere in between those two ideas. In this case, though, I lean toward thinking it wasn't simply random. It could have been, but it doesn't seem very likely from what we know.

And if local, that doesn't really help identify the motive or target (if, in fact, there was a specific target). From our vantage, there just doesn't seem to be any reason for anybody to want to do such malicious harm to the family. Motive, in this case, is pretty elusive. Could be any number of things.

The lack of public information leaves so many variables. The type of gun used makes a big difference to me. The vehicles, if not found, and ruled out, are a possible clue. Im also curious what locals and immediate family might be able to reveal about these parents that were killed? 911 transcript would be useful. If perp(s) can be heard, the approx age, race, geography could be narrowed. By now the FBI should have done all of that and have a profile.

 

[PommyMommy]

Actually that's very true. We don't know if it is from a camera or video shot or just a tip. I don't believe the police ever said when they posted the photo's of what they might look like. I thought it strange nobody came up with the exact make of the car from a photo. A tip could also mean a lot of little sporty red cars. Great thinking.

Fitzgerald said on Monday that through video camera footage from businesses and homes, they have identified two vehicles that were near the Closs home on Monday, October 15.

Fitzgerald said the first vehicle is likely a 2008-2014 red or orange Dodge Challenger. The second is likely either a 2006-2010 black Ford Edge, or a 2004-2010 black Acura MDX.

At this time, the sheriff's office is not releasing surveillance images of those vehicles.
Jayme Closs' Aunt: 'We'll never stop looking for you'

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm thinking somewhat along the same lines as you OBE. Except I keep going back and forth in my mind as to whether I trust the timing of when the neighbors heard the shots. If the neighbors are correct and the perp really had that much time in the house your scenario seems very logical to me.

I hate to bring up the whole chair discussion again (please scroll and roll if you are tired of it, lol) but I wonder if anyone has a similar chair and would like to do an experiment for us? In thinking about a scenario where Denise was tied to the chair and noting what looks like splinters/damage in the front seat of the chair, here is what I am envisioning: Perhaps Denise is tied to the chair with her hands behind her. Perhaps while the perp is distracted with Jayme, Denise manages to stand up in the chair and walk with it still tied to her. Perhaps she was trying to reach where her phone is located. Maybe the perp saw and shot Denise at that point. I am picturing one of the bullets going through the seat of the chair as she walked with it still tied to her body. Maybe Denise was taken down from the gunshot but the perp did not see right away that she got to her phone. Maybe she had one hand free and was able to call 911 as she was dying. Maybe it took the perp a minute to notice this and disconnect or destroy the phone.

So here is my proposed experiment. You will need a similar chair and a friend you trust to tie you up. If you are tied to a chair like this with only your hands how easy is it to stand and walk? What about if you tied you legs too? If you are able to walk, where on the body does the chair go as you walk with it still tied to you? Would a gunshot through the seat of the chair be aiming for your torso area?

I think someone has said they are going to try tying their husband to a chair tonight to test some of those things. Should be an interesting experiment.

 

[Jethro4WS]

The Sheriff spoke of how they came up with the vehicles of interest in the press conference where these vehicles were revealed. Occurs just after the 5:15 mark of the video of the press conference - I am using the video of the press conference posted on the Sheriff's page which comes from KARE 11 TV.

This is a link to that video.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=266425757343942

 

[1987]

And you know, that's a very new looking car to dump in a river. And the license plate looks to have been removed!

Three and half hour drive from the Closs home. Seems like an incredible lead!!!!!

Google Maps

well if a person was a car theif I don't think age of car would matter and newer cars have payments that someone might badly want out of. plates removed no big deal it has vin numbers all over it. I was watching a fishing show not long ago and they accidently found three cars and the show turned into a car recovery and police talking....they said pro car thieves roll windows down always but people trying to get out from under the payment take the tags off and push them in with the windows up most of the time. I am sure the car found today is under investigation for some crime I'm just not so sure it is this crime.

 

[l84tea2]

Argh sooo many unanswered questions! I hope this is a good sign and means they are closing in on someone. I pray jayme is found alive.

I kind of wonder if James came home and found Denise with someone. I doubt it. But it just seems odd that this would be random.

 

[NervousNellie]

Could bad video make one seem like the other? The one LE is looking for and this one? TIA

I don’t really know the answer to that, but I have faith that LE would not have been as specific as they were without being sure. As with the black vehicle of interest - they clearly are not certain about that one.

 

[SarahThePrincess]

This is more or less what I think happened.

My sense is that Jayme was almost always with an adult. Whether it be at school, dance, church, or with her "caretaker" between activities. If the perp(s) stalked her, they may have decided that since the family home was relatively secluded it would be easier to take her there under the cover of night than to risk taking her during the day when more people would be around.

Meth heads. Looking for something easy to steal. Looking for an opportunity. Maybe they had some harebrained scheme they were going to set in motion, and because of massive miscalculation they just had to grab the witness and go somewhere else to figure out what to do next?

 

[PommyMommy]

Argh sooo many unanswered questions! I hope this is a good sign and means they are closing in on someone. I pray jayme is found alive.

I kind of wonder if James came home and found Denise with someone. I doubt it. But it just seems odd that this would be random.

Welcome to Websleuths, l84tea2!
Thanks for joining us.
#FindJayme
​

 

[Falcon500]

From the log transcript... wondering what a “lift assist” is? I put a red mark beside line question. Sorry it’s sideways. I couldn’t get it straight on cell copy.

They needed a ride.

 

[OneQ84]

I live in Oshkosh. I'll snoop around, but I doubt it's related... unfortunately

 

[OneQ84]

Oshkosh PD Fb page:
Oshkosh Police Department

Media Release: Car found in water near 2100 Block of Punhoqua St

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
OSHKOSH POLICE DEPARTMENT
________________________________________

Date: 10/26/2018
Time: 10:45 AM
Contact: Officer Kate Mann
Public Affairs/ Crime Prevention
(920)236-5742
Subject: Car found in the water near the 2100 Block of Punhoqua St

On 10/26/2018 at approximately 8:41 AM, Oshkosh Police Officers were dispatched to a welfare check in the 2100 Block of Punhoqua St in the City of Oshkosh. Officers received information that there was a red car in the water near that location.

The Oshkosh Fire Department responded to the scene to assist. The red vehicle was located in the water and was found to be unoccupied.

This investigation is ongoing.

If anyone has any information regarding this incident, they are encouraged to contact the Oshkosh Police Department at 920-236-5700.

If you have information about this incident, but wish to remain anonymous, please contact the Winnebago County Crime Stoppers at (920) 231-8477; or add the free P3 App to your Apple or Android phone and add a tip; or go to www.winnebagocrimestoppers.org to submit a text tip. If your tip leads to an arrest, you may be eligible for a cash reward.

 

[singlemom]

ROFLOL " Maybe that's what happened to me". Love it!! Humor does heal.

No, and this is all I'm going to say, you don't break anything. You rock the lock and then slip one door off the tracks.
I can see it but I can't explain how easy it is to do, if, say, you're locked out of your own house.

Google would be good. You tube would be better, most likely..
Disclaimer- I do not condone any breaking and entry of any door anywhere. I do advocate getting into your own house if you are locked out and 4 little dogs are inside crying. ( Barking like the hounds from hell as well).

I keep a dowel rod in the bottom of my sliding glass door to prevent someone from siding it open. Unless "slip one door off the tracks" means something different than sliding it open.

 

[sumzero]

From the log transcript... wondering what a “lift assist” is? I put a red mark beside line question. Sorry it’s sideways. I couldn’t get it straight on cell copy.

Around here, the fire dept is often called to assist EMTs or LEOs with lifting a person (alive or deceased).

 

[1987]

Oshkosh PD Fb page:
Oshkosh Police Department

Media Release: Car found in water near 2100 Block of Punhoqua St

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
OSHKOSH POLICE DEPARTMENT
________________________________________

Date: 10/26/2018
Time: 10:45 AM
Contact: Officer Kate Mann
Public Affairs/ Crime Prevention
(920)236-5742
Subject: Car found in the water near the 2100 Block of Punhoqua St

On 10/26/2018 at approximately 8:41 AM, Oshkosh Police Officers were dispatched to a welfare check in the 2100 Block of Punhoqua St in the City of Oshkosh. Officers received information that there was a red car in the water near that location.

The Oshkosh Fire Department responded to the scene to assist. The red vehicle was located in the water and was found to be unoccupied.

This investigation is ongoing.

If anyone has any information regarding this incident, they are encouraged to contact the Oshkosh Police Department at 920-236-5700.

If you have information about this incident, but wish to remain anonymous, please contact the Winnebago County Crime Stoppers at (920) 231-8477; or add the free P3 App to your Apple or Android phone and add a tip; or go to www.winnebagocrimestoppers.org to submit a text tip. If your tip leads to an arrest, you may be eligible for a cash reward.

does this sound like it had not been reported stolen? if it hasn't been reported stolen that would change my whole thought on this car.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Meth heads. Looking for something easy to steal. Looking for an opportunity. Maybe they had some harebrained scheme they were going to set in motion, and because of massive miscalculation they just had to grab the witness and go somewhere else to figure out what to do next?

Perhaps, but if that's all they were, why go to the time and trouble to grab the witness?

 

[Gardener1850]

I think someone has said they are going to try tying their husband to a chair tonight to test some of those things. Should be quite an interesting experiment.

I hope so. I learn so much from the experiments done here.

 

[mtnlites]

Meth heads. Looking for something easy to steal. Looking for an opportunity. Maybe they had some harebrained scheme they were going to set in motion, and because of massive miscalculation they just had to grab the witness and go somewhere else to figure out what to do next?

In my experience of living in a town where drugs (and robberies tied to drugs) are a major problems, "meth heads" looking for items to steal, or for money, tend to break in during the day or during times when the house is empty. They are generally not looking to hurt anyone, they just want to rob the place. Taking on a hostage would be rare, too. They usually rob out of desperation (they've depleted their own funds and everyone else's around them) and want to get in and out as quickly as possible. Home invasions, where people are broken in on in the middle of the night, tend to be something else entirely. The fact that this happened so late, and that Jayme was taken, leads me to believe that this was more than just a few addicts looking to score.

 

[cluciano63]

I read someplace that every body of water of any size in the US likely contains a car and/or a body...I believe it

 

[DocBrew]

The Sheriff spoke of how they came up with the vehicles of interest in the press conference where these vehicles were revealed. Occurs just after the 5:15 mark of the video of the press conference - I am using the video of the press conference posted on the Sheriff's page which comes from KARE 11 TV.

This is a link to that video.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=266425757343942

Yeah, he even slips up and says "at the Closs home" and then corrects to "near" the home. In my view, these vehicles - both of them - are more powerful to the causal narrative than most of us are giving them credit for. They also implicate MULTIPLE suspects, and not just some random sociopath trying to get his murder/kidnap fix. IF - and it's a big IF at the moment - what happened ultimately comes to light, I feel that the depth of it all could very well blow our minds.

JMO.