AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[MsBetsy]

from the outside breaking in if who ever it was didn't already know some things about the family they couldn't count on someone being dazed from sleep or fear I don't think. they also couldn't count on not having a firearm pointed right back at them. who ever done this either knew about life inside or took some huge risk.

Yes, that's why I think whoever did this has had some experience. They may have killed before or abducted and killed before. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Another thing that I have been thinking about with the Crime scene, Sheriff Fitzgerald said something to the effect that they came across a child's bedroom in the house and had to call the school security guard to see if there was a known child living there. Besides that being odd, Does anyone think that statement may indicate the if the room was left alone, or normal?

I think it just means they wanted to be sure that a child had been there in order to take the necessary steps in issuing an Amber Alert, and declaring that a child was abducted and in danger.

 

[gipsypup]

from the outside breaking in if who ever it was didn't already know some things about the family they couldn't count on someone being dazed from sleep or fear I don't think. they also couldn't count on not having a firearm pointed right back at them. who ever done this either knew about life inside or took some huge risk.

I agree and keep coming back to the point that if abducting Jayme was the perps main goal then why choose this time and this specific day? A time when James would most likely be home. Still, not knowing if James just returned home from somewhere or if anyone was in the house prior to James returning home is key information.
The violence and rage involved in this case keeps many theories on the table.

 

[JnRyan]

How do we know the 911 call was delayed at all? We don't know for definite the timeline of events that night.

This might in reference to the nearest neighbors hearing 2 gunshots around 12:30 and the 911 call coming in a few minutes before 1:00. This would seem to indicate it took 25 minutes.

Of course, this is if you place a lot of belief in the neighbors stating they heard the shots at 12:30. In the last week or so, I'm starting to doubt that part of the timeline. IOW, the only timeline I'm comfortable with is from the 911 call onward. According to the witness, they looked at their clock at the time of the gun shots and stated it was 12:37 and LE told them their clock was 7 minutes fast. What if, in all the confusion, it was actually 7 minutes SLOW. (It wouldn't be the first mistake the media has made in reporting.) That would put the call at about quarter to one. If the killer(s) shot James early on and Jayme was the target, why stay 25-30 minutes, when they could be out and gone in 5-10 minutes? But then, I'm trying to apply logic to situation that doesn't appear to have much logic involved.

 

[cherrymeg]

There is also the possibility that there was no other reason this particular family was chosen other than the killer just wanted to murder and abduct a 13 year old. He may have picked that particular house because it was isolated and could not be seen by any neighbors. Also there are many possible escape routes. He may have scoped out the area in advance and figured out the most likely route LE would make to the house and picked one of the routes that are the least travelled. They seem to think he travelled on that 14 mile stretch of road. Maybe he took some back roads that lead to the other road to bypass or avoid anyone seeing him in the minutes after the crime. Jmo

What if the killer/s went to the wrong house? If they were on drugs they might have figured they would just go with it and try robbing the family.

 

[pepper 34]

Oh. I went a little psycho when my ex gave away my dog to drug dealers. Or traded her for drugs. I did everything I could to get her back. I went to snitching and that's not really my style. I called the police in front of them.
It's sometimes nicer to believe people brought something like this onto themselves. It's like when a kid goes missing and you hope one of the parents is responsible because the other option is worse. It means no one is safe.

For the record, this is not how I feel. If Jayme's father or mother got involved in any trouble, in any way, which brought this nightmare down onto the family I am not... not blaming them at all. We are all only human. Perfect people and perfect families only exist on social media... (all written up with rainbows, hearts and beautiful dinner photos thrown in for good measure; presented as the author on social media dictates it's so for his or her audience of "friends."
James, Denise and Jayme are REAL people and lived in their real world. Virtually nothing any of them could have done justifies what happened to them. There is no blame being assigned here on my part except squarely and forever on the killer(s.)
Simply a burning desire to know how this horrific incident came to be and it would be foolish for me to grab onto any scenario, to the exclusion of others at this time. We just don't know enough about what happened to decide and fishing expeditions are all we have at present.

 

[lonetraveler]

I cant reconcile what puts him immediately at the door but has a delay in 911 call. if it was fast then I understand the delay in the call but not dad being that close to the door. if it was long enough to put dad that close to the door then I don't understand the delay in the 911 call.

I can reconcile the delay if I put Jayme trying to make the call and getting caught just before she is pushed out of the house and taken away. I can also imagine it was yelling and Jayme's voice heard on the 911 call as she was discovered trying to make the call. JMO

 

[l84tea2]

I’m soo thankful for the family coming forward with another interview. This helps put some faces to the loss and keeps people talking about the case. I hope they find Jayme. They need her to help heal their broken hearts.

 

[Gardener1850]

Yes, that's even harder to figure out. We don't know how the chair was used or how it ended up getting struck by a bullet if that's what happened. I guess it's possible that it could get hit from a person on the ground with a gun. I don't know anything about guns, but wouldn't the person have to be holding it or aiming low to strike the underside of the chair? Or under the chair for the bullet to go up towards the seat? Imo

Your guess is as good as mine. I have only ever fired handguns while standing up at a shooting range. I've never tried laying on the floor and shooting. I've seen a lot of Mythbusters episodes and watched a lot of crime TV shows and that is all I have to pull from as far as my speculation that someone struggling with an assailant and a handgun on the floor could accidentally fire toward a chair in a slight upward direction. In my scenario the chair would not have been "used" for anything. My new working theory is that the chair wasn't in the line of fire between the gunman and the intended target, it was possibly hit because of a struggle with the gun. JMO.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

There is a system in Wisconsin that posts brief information on unsolved missing persons: Clearinghouse for Missing & Exploited Children & Adults | Wisconsin Department of Justice

Jayme’s case is so hard to understand. There is no obvious motive.

The murders of the parents suggest a perpetrator either very angry, or very determined. IMO.

The interview with Sheriff Fitzgerald Saturday on DrydenWire did not provide any additional leads, fwiw. He mostly seemed to be throwing his hands up.

It’s difficult for many to understand, as in the Tibbets matter, LE IS NOT going to share any facts in this case until and if it benefits them to do so. There is no legal obligation for them to do so especially if it might harm the case/search.

For all we know they may have one or more suspects under surveillance. It’s my lay experience that they know volume more than it appears. To say they’ve thrown their hands up isn’t correct. Under no dcircumstances would that occur. They simply have no obligation to keep the public and the killers informed.

 

[1987]

I can reconcile the delay if I put Jayme trying to make the call and getting caught just before she is pushed out of the house and taken away. I can also imagine it was yelling and Jayme's voice heard on the 911 call as she was discovered trying to make the call. JMO

it almost seems like both parents were confronted at the same time and it was left for only jayme to help herself.

 

[Celt1997]

It’s difficult for many to understand, as in the Tibbets matter, LE IS NOT going to share any facts in this case until and if it benefits them to do so. There is no legal obligation for them to do so especially if it might harm the case/search.

For all we know they may have one or more suspects under surveillance. It’s my lay experience that they know volume more than it appears. To say they’ve thrown their hands up isn’t correct. Under no dcircumstances would that occur. They simply have no obligation to keep the public and the killers informed.

I agree with you. IMO the day that LE shows their entire hand will be a sad day, because that will be the signal that they have done everything they could without any solutions.

 

[DancingMuse]

Interesting side note: if someone knows a crime is being committed and they want an airtight alibi sometimes they will go to a casino while it is happening because they know their alibi will be proven on casino video.

This does backfire sometimes though, because if someone has never been to a casino but appears there during a crime investigators will become suspicious.

Disclaimer: I haven’t ever worked in a casino camera room but I was inside one when responding to a medical issue and was invited to stay for a “tour.”

Wow, IceIce9,
This is a thought-provoking post. Much gratitude.

Especially your second half:

It makes one wonder: Could someone "fix" the alibi? And let's say the Closs crime happened and was finished ...... earlier in the evening. And perhaps the 911 call was staged? All this was done to create the illusion of a crime committed at a certain time, and thereby fitting perfectly with someone's future alibi?
​

It's been my belief all along that..... in the Delphi murders and now with the Closs Murders, that LE has already spoken with the killers, ...... and just don't know they have, and its because they had an "airtight" alibi, and were "ruled out."

JMO, Very Amateur Speculation only.

 

[photographer4]

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I'm still trying to make sense of the sequence of events with Jim at the door. If his feet were visible to the arriving officers that would mean the door was completely open behind his body.

To me this does seem to mean that the door was kicked in, then Jim arrived to confront whomever was there, and may have actually moved them back a bit, before the intruder shot Jim. Since they mention the feet being visible to the officers, IMO, means he had would have had to move outward onto the front landing a bit, rather than barricading, or pushing against the door from inside.

This assumes a whole lot though... it assumes his feet were near the door, or holding it open in whole or in part. It might not be that way though. The door may have been open enough that they saw Jim's feet but nothing more. If he was against a hall wall, his feet may have been visible if he slumped down a wall. We don't know how wide the door was open, just that it was open and police saw feet. Interesting to note they didn't say they saw a body. It was that omission that made me think only his feet were visible initially. Is that b/c poor lighting? The way he landed? Was he moved after he was shot? We don't know. They didn't initially note a lot of blood either. Just man down, multiple rounds spent. Makes ya wonder what the scene really looked like doesn't it?

 

[MsBetsy]

What if the killer/s went to the wrong house? If they were on drugs they might have figured they would just go with it and try robbing the family.

It could be. They haven't seemed to rule anything out. There has been a lot of discussion on the possibility that they were not actually the intended targets, and the killer went to the wrong house. But then it makes it difficult to explain why they or he took Jayme. It would appear it was a last minute decision and many think she was targeted and murdering the parents was a last minute decision. Hard to say, there are so many possibilities. Jmo

 

[cherrymeg]

Another thing that I have been thinking about with the Crime scene, Sheriff Fitzgerald said something to the effect that they came across a child's bedroom in the house and had to call the school security guard to see if there was a known child living there. Besides that being odd, Does anyone think that statement may indicate the if the room was left alone, or normal?

Do you remember the Brianna Denison case? Murder of Brianna Denison - Wikipedia
What if she was grabbed out of bed?

 

[photographer4]

Another thing that I have been thinking about with the Crime scene, Sheriff Fitzgerald said something to the effect that they came across a child's bedroom in the house and had to call the school security guard to see if there was a known child living there. Besides that being odd, Does anyone think that statement may indicate the if the room was left alone, or normal?

Just seeing a kid's bedroom does not automatically means a child lives there. It could be a step kid visiting on weekends, or a family member's kid who visits often. But when the Sheriff stated on the DrydenWire interview the other day that they called the school officer... he stumbled over saying the officer said there should be (a kid living there)... Its as if he almost said something else... and caught himself at the last second.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

This might in reference to the nearest neighbors hearing 2 gunshots around 12:30 and the 911 call coming in a few minutes before 1:00. This would seem to indicate it took 25 minutes.

Of course, this is if you place a lot of belief in the neighbors stating they heard the shots at 12:30. In the last week or so, I'm starting to doubt that part of the timeline. IOW, the only timeline I'm comfortable with is from the 911 call onward. According to the witness, they looked at their clock at the time of the gun shots and stated it was 12:37 and LE told them their clock was 7 minutes fast. What if, in all the confusion, it was actually 7 minutes SLOW. (It wouldn't be the first mistake the media has made in reporting.) That would put the call at about quarter to one. If the killer(s) shot James early on and Jayme was the target, why stay 25-30 minutes, when they could be out and gone in 5-10 minutes? But then, I'm trying to apply logic to situation that doesn't appear to have much logic involved.

We don’t know that Jayme was there during the call. We do not know what time she and Denise got home from the party. We do not know if Jayme was in that house at all that evening.

 

[cody22]

I agree. but what delays the call that it gets that far if father has had enough time to get to the front door and be shot. I know once someone was in the situation would be out of control and likely just desperate for any chance to place that call.

I think the speed, shock of the crime, injuries, or all of the just mentioned, and the phone being a distance away from DC may have delayed getting the 911 call off... Who knows ? I just hope we get to find out soon.

 

[lonetraveler]

what are the reasons Jim would go to the door? And yet, the door was kicked in. So, it would make sense whatever he saw on the other side he didn't want to let in and shut it rapidly. I wonder if he was just letting his dog out, unaware someone was laying in wait outside and then he saw them, shut the door as they kicked it in.
idk I just keep trying to make the scenario work that Jim answered the door and it was kicked it.

I too have been thinking this scenario over. Maybe someone was bamming on the door very loudly and he looked out of the closest window prior to opening the door to see who it was and told them through the door to leave and that is when the person kicked the door open and immediately shot him. JMO