AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[human]

1) most depts have to respond to hangups
2) this was more of a "can't talk but bad things are happening" call -- not a typical hangup
3) midnight rural WI, not much going on, dispatcher would have sent everyone most likely. even those not specifically dispatched probably would have rolled
4) small area, cars were likely all very close


Not sure why there is much discussion about the response to the hangup as it's about the only "normal" piece of this case.

My question is about why LE thought it was suicide.

He was in the doorway with multiple shells and the door kicked in.

What would lead to the thought of suicide?

 

[human]

There's not much else to talk about with this case. Might as well rehash the first 5 threads over and over.

Do you have thoughts on why LE would think it is a suicide with mutiple spent casings and a door kicked in?

Where were the casings? Inside or outside?

If the perp was not far into the house, if the casings were inside, the perp was in the house.

Did James answer the door or was the door kicked in and the perp in the house?

How did the perp manage to kill both of them without going far into the house? How did he get Jayme without going far into the house?

 

[Jabarn]

There's not much else to talk about with this case. Might as well rehash the first 5 threads over and over.

I totally get what you are saying, how the same information is rechurned and rechurned. It does seem that way for those following the case since it happened. But things change, opinions change. I go back to the accuracy of the 911 call, and the front door.

Jayme, who is thought to have been at home during the call, was gone when deputies arrived just a couple of minutes later. The door was open when they got to the house, Fitzgerald said.

Sheriff: No fingerprints, no shoe prints, no DNA in Wisconsin double homicide, missing teen case

There may have been some inaccuracy in the 911 call log. For example, there are plenty of posts here there were multiple bullet holes on the door. It may be the door was shot in... it could also be the door was damaged by gun shot during the murders. Pictures shared by sleuthers here sure look like the door was kicked in, based on the wood shred evidence, but not sure what to make of it.

The 911 log says the door was kicked in. It also says James was a suicide.

With all that to say, the more recent quote from the Sheriff has me puzzled that the door was simply open when investigators got to the house.

 

[chili367]

My question is about why LE thought it was suicide.

He was in the doorway with multiple shells and the door kicked in.

What would lead to the thought of suicide?

I've alluded to this before, but the threadcount on this case makes it hard to find anything!

I'd guess the report of a hangup (it's unlikely the specifics of the hangup was broadcast, maybe just it was urgent) and the location of the wound might have led the responding officer to say that. (Originally, I thought maybe a weapon, too, but that doesn't appear to be the case.) Maybe it reminded the officer of a previous crime scene?

I don't think that the suicide comment itself is that crucial, but the scene that caused the comment perhaps is.

JMO

 

[Wrenny]

Just curious why police would request the emergency response team to be paged out if the victims were already dead?
"317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR."

Because they saw right away that this was something serious.

The emergency response team consists of:

1 Commander, 10 Entry, 3 Snipers, 2 Negotiators, and 4 Tactical Medics.

Members of the team are 14 Sheriff’s Department personnel, along with 1 from Rice Lake Police Department Officer, 1 from St. Croix Tribal Police Department and 4 tactical medics from Lakeview Medical Center.​

Source: barronsheriff.org This is from their 2016 annual report, it's possible there have been minor personnel changes since then.

 

[proctorelites]

My grandson is 13. He doesn't have a fb acct. Him and his friends, both girls and boys, are using Discord for chatting. They also have snap-chat and Instagram, but don't use it much. I gave him the stranger danger lecture so many times,I can't count. He tells me their Discord group is invite only.

I'm glad you mentioned Discord, I've never heard of that. My daughter's dad has his phone set to be notified and require his approval b4 she can download any app. I'm definitely a fan of this option. My 15 yr old just figured out tht you can't just create a random email to make an account. It's funny but also a bit disconcerting tht she was that niave abt technology. She & her sister would make up an email address and password. Email not being their email( just 1 thy made up on the fly to create an acct..I thought it was not possible but apparently all thy needed was a valid email format. Anyway, I Invision Jayme being this naive..I could be very wrong I realise that all IMOO.

 

[Wrenny]

I've wondered if we are taking kicked in too literally? I can see an individual(s) with some bulk and/or muscle shouldering their way through the door.

Others have shared expert information, that it's easy to kick in a door, but trying to shoulder it in is a great way to break your shoulder. And it wasn't shot in. The broken edge of the door is clearly visible on one (or more) of the videos. A screen shot has been shared here.

 

[Jabarn]

Others have shared expert information, that it's easy to kick in a door, but trying to shoulder it in is a great way to break your shoulder. And it wasn't shot in. The broken edge of the door is clearly visible on one (or more) of the videos. A screen shot has been shared here.

I saw that pic, too. Also wonder if damage like that could be caused by a wedge, someone trying to sneak in more quietly.

Hopefully, the investigators know more than we do, fwiw.

 

[Wrenny]

Whatever was heard during the call gave the dispatcher the impression it was a suicide attempt, rather than a family being in imminent danger of being murdered.

No. The dispatcher called it a "911 hangup."

 

[Wrenny]

someone was apparently kicking in the door, was at the door, and it was 1am on a Sunday night. That's the stuff of suspense films/horror flicks, and if one HAS guns, why wouldn't you grab one in a situation like that? It's not like it's 1pm in the afternoon.

Maybe he did. Now that we know he had firearms at the house, we don't know that he wasn't armed, only that all his guns were accounted for.
On the other hand, he had a child in the house. His guns were probably in a gun safe, unloaded, and maybe there wasn't time.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Do you have thoughts on why LE would think it is a suicide with mutiple spent casings and a door kicked in?

Where were the casings? Inside or outside?

If the perp was not far into the house, if the casings were inside, the perp was in the house.

Did James answer the door or was the door kicked in and the perp in the house?

How did the perp manage to kill both of them without going far into the house? How did he get Jayme without going far into the house?

The only thing I can think of is they thought they were likely going to a domestic call (hang up lots of yelling). As they approached, found the house all quiet, door ajar enough to see male down and some casings. Officer #321 thinks about this (initially similar) case last year of double homicide/suicide: Chetek deaths of man, woman, daughter were murder-suicide, Barron County sheriff says

Maybe both. Shell casings outside and inside. IDK, but I can't rule it out. James shot during breach with casings landing outdoors, then perp enters (appx 5 feet?) shoots Denise and those casings land inside.

IDK. Most handgun casings I'm (very) familiar with eject 1-3 feet in back of my right shoulder and off to the side 2-6 feet to the right. In other words, after firings, take 2-6 steps to the right and 1-3 steps backwards and you'll often find your pile of brass. On the rifle range, most brass is ejected the same, but some land more forward.

I think James was at the door, inside. I'm not sure if he was answering the door, trying to prevent it from being smash in, or was opening it.

I think it was kicked in, maybe shot into too. Looks like a splintered wood door removed from the hinges in that picture, the one with the white-suit investigator guy in the doorway.

Last one is toughest. I think a couple possibilities. 1) maybe all three Closs' came out to the area (kitchen, living, dining-whatever common area is around doorway/entrance) to see wtf was going on, before any gun fire started and all the perp had to do was point a firearm at Jayme and say "come here...". Or, 2) he went and found her (hiding) but only left evidence at that initial entrance area.

 

[Wrenny]

so if the 1st squad car arrived in 4 minutes by my calculations that puts him within a 4 mile radius of the crime scene. I'd like to know what he was doing there, cruising or on a call.

The house is one minute from the edge of town, 4 minutes from Jenny-O, per google maps, so without even speeding.

The first THREE officers (329, 325, 317) 4 minutes 28 seconds (317) and 4 minutes 29 seconds (325, 329) after dispatch.

 

[Jabarn]

The only thing I can think of is they thought they were likely going to a domestic call (hang up lots of yelling). As they approached, found the house all quiet, door ajar enough to see male down and some casings. Officer #321 thinks about this (initially similar) case last year of double homicide/suicide: Chetek deaths of man, woman, daughter were murder-suicide, Barron County sheriff says

Maybe both. Shell casings outside and inside. IDK, but I can't rule it out. James shot during breach with casings landing outdoors, then perp enters (appx 5 feet?) shots Denise and those casings land inside.

IDK. Most handgun casings I'm (very) familiar with eject 1-3 feet in back of my right shoulder and off to the side 2-6 feet to the right. In other words, after firings, take 2-6 steps to the right and 1-3 steps backwards and you'll often find your pile of brass. On the rifle range, most brass is ejected the same, but some land more forward.

I think James was at the door, inside. I'm not sure if he was answering the door, trying to prevent it from being smash in, or was opening it.

I think it was kicked in, maybe shot into too. Looks like a splintered wood door removed from the hinges in that picture, the one with the white-suit investigator guy in the doorway.

Last one is toughest. I think a couple possibilities. 1) maybe all three Closs' came out to the area (kitchen, living, dining-whatever common area is around doorway/entrance) to see wtf was going on, before any gun fire started and all the perp had to do was point a firearm at Jayme and say "come here...". Or, 2) he went and found her (hiding) but only left evidence at that initial entrance area.

So since it seems likely this went down with a handgun (I was in the shotgun camp until more recent stories def show it it was casings and not shells found at the scene), is the report of bullet holes on the front door possible? I think a reporter said that... anyone have a link? TIA.

ETA: there may have been a backdoor taken out of the home as well, based on some information and pics shared here (the Halloween stickers). Does make me consider a duo, and not a lone intruder. IMO.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Do you have thoughts on why LE would think it is a suicide with mutiple spent casings and a door kicked in?

Where were the casings? Inside or outside?

If the perp was not far into the house, if the casings were inside, the perp was in the house.

Did James answer the door or was the door kicked in and the perp in the house?

How did the perp manage to kill both of them without going far into the house? How did he get Jayme without going far into the house?

Perp has any familiarity with guns or hunter .. killing two in 5 -10 seconds is not surprising .. especially if there visible against door your trying to enter..or right inside door.

View clip below.... goes through distance of home shootings ... supersonic weapon shooting 9 pellets and wad.. you can miss center target and still be lethal..

 

[Jax49]

This article says there is coverage of a bullet riddled door by local media, but I've never seen it.

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

With no suspects, no sighting of the child and scarce physical evidence one month after the Oct. 15 murders, police in the small town of Barron are scrutinizing the few clues they have, starting with the mysterious 911 call and a front door riddled with bullet holes.

Fitzgerald would not say whether the killer shot through the door but local news footage shows investigators carrying it away from the scene -- covered with what looks like bullet holes.

bbm

 

[Jabarn]

This article says there is coverage of a bullet riddled door by local media, but I've never seen it.

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder



bbm

Thank you, Jax49.

 

[CuriousMaine]

I'm glad you mentioned Discord, I've never heard of that. My daughter's dad has his phone set to be notified and require his approval b4 she can download any app. I'm definitely a fan of this option. My 15 yr old just figured out tht you can't just create a random email to make an account. It's funny but also a bit disconcerting tht she was that niave abt technology. She & her sister would make up an email address and password. Email not being their email( just 1 thy made up on the fly to create an acct..I thought it was not possible but apparently all thy needed was a valid email format. Anyway, I Invision Jayme being this naive..I could be very wrong I realise that all IMOO.

Discord was popular with "gamer" types, but seems to be spreading to any common groups. It reminds me of the early "Internet Relay Chat" (IRC) rooms.

 

[Wrenny]

Wisconsin police baffled by Jayme Closs disappearance one month after parents' murder

Is part of this from the DM article? That's the only place I've seen say bullet-riddled. The by-line says Fox News "contributed to" the report.

 

[Lillymac]

I totally get what you are saying, how the same information is rechurned and rechurned. It does seem that way for those following the case since it happened. But things change, opinions change. I go back to the accuracy of the 911 call, and the front door.

Jayme, who is thought to have been at home during the call, was gone when deputies arrived just a couple of minutes later. The door was open when they got to the house, Fitzgerald said.

Sheriff: No fingerprints, no shoe prints, no DNA in Wisconsin double homicide, missing teen case

There may have been some inaccuracy in the 911 call log. For example, there are plenty of posts here there were multiple bullet holes on the door. It may be the door was shot in... it could also be the door was damaged by gun shot during the murders. Pictures shared by sleuthers here sure look like the door was kicked in, based on the wood shred evidence, but not sure what to make of it.

The 911 log says the door was kicked in. It also says James was a suicide.

With all that to say, the more recent quote from the Sheriff has me puzzled that the door was simply open when investigators got to the house.

There is no accuracy or inaccuracy in a call log. The log is their educated guess and their first impression when arriving upon the crime scene. And as is obvious in this log, this information can be amended after further inspection.

 

[Jax49]

Is part of this from the DM article? That's the only place I've seen say bullet-riddled. The by-line says Fox News "contributed to" the report.
Detail that I think is wrong, it says the birthday party was at Jayme's aunt's. Wasn't it at her grandfather's?

Other media report the party was at the aunt's.

On a Sunday nearly one month ago, Jennifer Smith held a birthday party for her grandson at her Barron, Wisconsin home. Jennifer’s sister Denise Closs, who lived just a couple of miles away, came to the party with her 13-year-old daughter, Jayme.

Investigators no closer to finding missing teen Jayme Closs whose parents were found dead in Wisconsin home