AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[Lillymac]

According to the post you are referring to on FB, that is Denise's mother's house. Denise comments that she put the snowman on her mom's house. So, that round window is not on Denise's house.

Post 311, this thread, there are two pictures of the exterior of the house prior to crime. The front door shows a square window you typically see in a front door.

 

[deugirtni]

Just before one o'clock a.m. on a night when presumably Jayme would need to get up early to get off to school (presumably on a bus, so likely fairly early?).... not sure if her mom or either parent would get up with her to pack her lunch, get her breakfast, kiss her goodbye, see her off, etc, so presumably one or the other or both might be getting up early as well?? (so presumably would have been in bed at that time?)...

I have always imagined, for some reason, that it was Jayme who made the 911 call, reportedly on her mom's phone. I think I read one time that Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen, but I'm not sure if that was theorized, or if it was fact? Is it confirmed that 13 year old Jayme did in fact have her own cellphone? Could Jayme have secretly been in her bed/bedroom using her mom's phone?

It just strikes me weird to hear the perp only made it 5 feet into the home and stayed for 4 minutes or less.
-Why would both parents be so close to the front door that they could be shot dead that quickly..
-Why weren't they in bed?
-Why did 911 dispatch call it out as a possible suicide, presumably and obviously based on the call?
-Why did first officers on scene report only one-person down, and then only after 6 minutes, report a second person down, if everyone was in such close proximity to the front door?
-It took 6 minutes for 2 officers to report 2 people down even though it only took 4 minutes to get from initial 911 call to the home?
-How is that possible, if shooter only made it 5 feet inside the front door?

"[115-10/15/2018 01:05:19] 325 ADVISED ONE MALE DOWN, MULTIPLE ROUNDS SPENT. REQUESTED THAT ADMIN BE NOTIFIED."
"[115-10/15/2018 01:11:02] 317 ADVISED TWO SUBJECTS DOWN.
[115 - 10/15/2018 01:19:27] 317 REQUESTED THAT 501 RESPOND TO THE SCENE FOR TWO SUBJECTS DOWN, UNRESPONSIVE"

Obviously Jayme also was not in bed, if the perp only made it into the home by 5 feet. I imagine that said perp would have had to quickly whisk/carry/drag Jayme out of the home, surely she would have been devastated at the sight of both her parents shot dead and wouldn't want to just walk over their presumably bloody bodies to exit out the front door with said perp, yet he didn't need to come in any further than 5 feet to fetch her? How is it that everyone in the house was so conveniently and immediately close at hand?

Has anyone ever posted a floorplan of the house on this Closs thread? Would be interesting to know where the bedrooms were in relation to the front door, and where the kitchen was, etc.

How did police not pass the perp's/get-away vehicle as they were travelling the road to her home, while the perp was exact same time travelling away from her home?

In the 911 call report, I saw something about a pole camera... was nothing able to be seen on the footage from that?? If not, why not?? Could this indicate there was no vehicle at all? If so, and said perp(s) and Jayme were on foot, why would the dogs have been unable to follow the scent(s)?
"1:38 301 REQUESTED PHOTOS OF THE PROPERTY.
1:54 317 ADVISED ERT REQUESTING POLE CAM."

I can't believe this crazy case hasn't made any headway yet, after 2 months?? I read recently that police are going to revisit more from the beginning.. seems like a great idea. "With this in mind investigators in Jayme's disappearance have begun re-interviewing people and working back through interviews already conducted in a bid to find any inconsistencies." Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

 

[IceIce9]

Questions I have:

Were all 3 family members up at the time? One might think Jayme would have been in bed.

Has it been reported what the victims were wearing? As in, perhaps Denise was wearing a nightgown, pajamas or robe, that might indicate she was already in bed.

Was it normal for the family to be up at that time of night? Did Jayme have a set bedtime? Or did she often stay up late?

If all 3 family members were up, or even 2 of them, were they waiting for a visitor, perhaps a friend or family member, to stop by for a moment? Or for a visit? The hour was late, I know, but people who work evening shifts might visit with someone else who works evenings.

Could they have been waiting for an acquaintance to stop by? To borrow a tool, return something borrowed, to speak to one of the family members? To drop off something James had forgotten at work?

Or could a coworker have said he was coming by after his shift ended to drop off something James or Denise had left at work?

Just brainstorming to think of possibilities.

I am still wondering if it could have been someone who knew at least one family member. Someone local.

 

[Lavender Moon]

I am so sorry for your terrible loss! But, thank you for sharing your story because so many people don’t understand what happens with the brain when blood touches it. Our son had a tree limb weighing over 200lbs fall across his forehead when we were camping. A “freak tragic” accident is what the arborists, police & everyone else called it. Anyway, my point here is that when blood touches our brain tissue it is like acid. You can never restore that part of the brain again. If the blood gets to the center of the brain (if I recall correctly) it is the pituitary gland, once the blood hits that there is no coming back. You are legally considered brain dead. The machines are the only things keeping your heart alive, keeping you breathing. Once those machines are turned off you can not survive on your own. My personal opinion; you are not living. You are just existing. I would rather give other families a chance to spend more time making memories and living with their loved one that needs a transplant.

BTW- it took the Doctors TWO days to finally announce our son brain dead. Sometimes it’s quickly, sometimes not so much.


Just my opinion & experience

Seahorseladydi, I am so sorry that this happened to your son. <3

 

[ShaylaVale]

I missed this “only 5 feet onto the house”??? When did that come out? How was it presented?
I believe that the determination was that Denise was found "further in the house" than James. They don't specify where, or how much further.
I thought Denise was killed in the bathroom?

 

[ShaylaVale]

Just before one o'clock a.m. on a night when presumably Jayme would need to get up early to get off to school (presumably on a bus, so likely fairly early?).... not sure if her mom or either parent would get up with her to pack her lunch, get her breakfast, kiss her goodbye, see her off, etc, so presumably one or the other or both might be getting up early as well?? (so presumably would have been in bed at that time?)...

I have always imagined, for some reason, that it was Jayme who made the 911 call, reportedly on her mom's phone. I think I read one time that Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen, but I'm not sure if that was theorized, or if it was fact? Is it confirmed that 13 year old Jayme did in fact have her own cellphone? Could Jayme have secretly been in her bed/bedroom using her mom's phone?

It just strikes me weird to hear the perp only made it 5 feet into the home and stayed for 4 minutes or less.
-Why would both parents be so close to the front door that they could be shot dead that quickly..
-Why weren't they in bed?
-Why did 911 dispatch call it out as a possible suicide, presumably and obviously based on the call?
-Why did first officers on scene report only one-person down, and then only after 6 minutes, report a second person down, if everyone was in such close proximity to the front door?
-It took 6 minutes for 2 officers to report 2 people down even though it only took 4 minutes to get from initial 911 call to the home?
-How is that possible, if shooter only made it 5 feet inside the front door?

"[115-10/15/2018 01:05:19] 325 ADVISED ONE MALE DOWN, MULTIPLE ROUNDS SPENT. REQUESTED THAT ADMIN BE NOTIFIED."
"[115-10/15/2018 01:11:02] 317 ADVISED TWO SUBJECTS DOWN.
[115 - 10/15/2018 01:19:27] 317 REQUESTED THAT 501 RESPOND TO THE SCENE FOR TWO SUBJECTS DOWN, UNRESPONSIVE"

Obviously Jayme also was not in bed, if the perp only made it into the home by 5 feet. I imagine that said perp would have had to quickly whisk/carry/drag Jayme out of the home, surely she would have been devastated at the sight of both her parents shot dead and wouldn't want to just walk over their presumably bloody bodies to exit out the front door with said perp, yet he didn't need to come in any further than 5 feet to fetch her? How is it that everyone in the house was so conveniently and immediately close at hand?

Has anyone ever posted a floorplan of the house on this Closs thread? Would be interesting to know where the bedrooms were in relation to the front door, and where the kitchen was, etc.

How did police not pass the perp's/get-away vehicle as they were travelling the road to her home, while the perp was exact same time travelling away from her home?

In the 911 call report, I saw something about a pole camera... was nothing able to be seen on the footage from that?? If not, why not?? Could this indicate there was no vehicle at all? If so, and said perp(s) and Jayme were on foot, why would the dogs have been unable to follow the scent(s)?
"1:38 301 REQUESTED PHOTOS OF THE PROPERTY.
1:54 317 ADVISED ERT REQUESTING POLE CAM."

I can't believe this crazy case hasn't made any headway yet, after 2 months?? I read recently that police are going to revisit more from the beginning.. seems like a great idea. "With this in mind investigators in Jayme's disappearance have begun re-interviewing people and working back through interviews already conducted in a bid to find any inconsistencies." Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

You brought up so many points. I don't know if I can address them all, or even remember them all. From what i remember Jayme did have a phone, and was on the kitchen counter charging.

As to if Jayme might have been using her mothers phone i have no idea. I don't recall any floor plan being posted. Only that it was mentioned to be an open floor plan.

It is my opinion from experience, when working a late shift my family would get up long enough to say goodnight... give kisses and hugs, and whatnot. That doesn't mean it happened here, but would give a plausible reason why everyone would still have been awake around this time. Having had 5 children, at 13 they were night owls, and unless I kept on them they would stay awake as long as they could.

I am still stumped by this 4 minute, 5 foot, scenario they have come up with. I thought controlling 3 victims would be hard enough with a basically unlimited timeline and ability to move about the home freely. Now all i can think is to add a second perp. Though i don't know how that would fit either.

It was said that LE came in from one direction so if the perp went the other way they would have missed seeing each other. (Reading back in your post trying to see what questions i have missed.)

As far as LE first reporting it a suicide. I don't know. Maybe they came across James body and maybe they first tried to resuscitate him, allowing for time to pass before finding Denise. The suicide makes no sense though unless they found a gun in James's hand, or near his body, which we know isn't the case. All I can think is a rookie cop, or heck i don't know. There are just so many oddities, inconsistencies, and contradictions to really get any firm grasp on what happened.

I do think that after watching her parents killed, Jayme would comply with most anything she was told to do. She was trying to stay alive.

 

[JnRyan]

Kicking down a door is not easy.

A successful breach requires the wooden doorframe to break apart on impact.
It’s not like on TV where the perp or LE kicks open a door in one swift cool move.
You want to check the hinges first and see which way a door swings open.
You want to check for bolts on the upper half that might indicate the presence of a steel rod or 2-by-4-inch wood jamb.
If it swings open toward you, kicking it down is next to impossible.
If it swings out, you’ll want to kick where the keyhole is mounted for the easiest possible clean kick.
You want to use a front kick, driving your heel of your foot into the door to avoid injury.

Not everyone knows how to properly kick a door open.

Who does know how? LE, Military, DEA, firefighters, seasoned criminals, etc.

When researching for my first book, Burn Out, I asked my firefighter hubby a dozen questions about gaining entry to residences and kicking in doors. I guess that’s why this one thing is standing out in my mind.

WHY kick a door open to gain entry?

My big question is – was the door locked and closed when the perp kicked the door in? OR did they knock first, wait until someone opened the door, maybe JC saw who the person was or saw the gun and tried to close the door on them and THEN the perp kicked it open wider????

Let’s suppose the door was locked and the perp wanted to break in. Why not use other methods to gain entry? Pick the lock? Try to open another door? Or window?

IMO - Kicking open a door shows aggression. Experience. Quick - in and out. Don’t care that it makes noise and wakes everyone up. That person has a purpose. It’s planned and dutifully executed with military precision. Gain entry. Eliminate targets. Grab intended target and go. No witnesses.

edit: grammar

Good stuff! The fact that a door was kicked complicates our scenarios. In this instance I believe there was a storm door as well. In that case I would imagine the hinges for the storm door and the wooden door are on opposite sides with the storm opening outward and the wooden door opening inward.

I can't imagine someone without training kicking a door open on the first try. We had an instance here locally where a man kicked in the door of home of a SEAL and that ended badly for the intruder as the SEAL was ruled to be protecting his family. I've tried to find the article to get more details but I can't find it.

 

[Deerrun]

I am never here anymore due to lack of updates. So I apologize if this already has been shared. The front door we all thought was the front was actually the patio door. See the pumpkins...

The pumpkins are in different positions. Could this picture of the patio door be an old one from previous year. Also the patio door looks like wood in color and the door they are taking away looks metal

 

[Jax49]

I am never here anymore due to lack of updates. So I apologize if this already has been shared. The front door we all thought was the front was actually the patio door. See the pumpkins...

Edited after I got on my computer. Not claiming this to be fact. The only similarities is the decals on the windows, which could just be on both doors. The wood frame on the photos are not the same though. So it makes me question...

I came to the same conclusions you did. Probably not the door we saw being carried away - color of frame is different and the decorations don't look to be in the same places. moo

But still a great catch. Glad to see any new thoughts.

ETA: Source for photos?

 

[IceIce9]

Question for anyone with a Ring doorbell: Do you think a Ring doorbell would have helped in this case, by clearly recording the perp who came to the front door? Or would the criminal just kick and destroy the doorbell along with kicking down the door?

If a Ring doorbell is immediately destroyed is a useful video retrievable?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Wis. Crime Lab Is Ground Zero In Search For Break In Closs Case

Different light sources are used to find any stains. The sheriff tells us more than 100 pieces of potential evidence from the Closs home have been sent to the lab. Roehm says such a high number is rare.

“You’re creating an impact in real time for real people for real cases,” she said.

Just as they are again. This time for Jayme.

 

[elektroangel]

The pumpkins are in different positions. Could this picture of the patio door be an old one from previous year. Also the patio door looks like wood in color and the door they are taking away looks metal

Agreed! Pre-coffee and small screens don't lead to anything good. LOL.

Admin please remove my original post, I definitely do not want to add to speculation, we have enough of that going on with this case.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Question for anyone with a Ring doorbell: Do you think a Ring doorbell would have helped in this case, by clearly recording the perp who came to the front door? Or would the criminal just kick and destroy the doorbell along with kicking down the door?

If a Ring doorbell is immediately destroyed is a useful video retrievable?

I have a doorbell camera integrated with my home security system. It records any activity based on your selection criteria ie, motion activated, ring activated, etc. Any data recorded is stored in the 'cloud' so even if the perp disabled or destroyed it, what was recorded up to that point is recoverable.

 

[JRW]

It could be nothing but your thoughts are like mine on this theory. A receipt from an ATM for cash, a couple of 50c blackjack chips thrown on the counter, etc. Then again, it could just be that they have cameras and it is a rural area with few.

I'm not sure how big the casino is, but alot of casinos are starting to use facial recognition. I'm curious if they asked for footage from inside the casino as well as outside... I have also been curious if the Casino has a hotel attached... maybe the perp could have had a room reserved the night before? or a room he went back to after the abduction? I know its a stretch to take a girl back to his room after this situation, but if he had Jayme subdued maybe go back to the room to buy some time and think

 

[Cardinal47]

Just before one o'clock a.m. on a night when presumably Jayme would need to get up early to get off to school (presumably on a bus, so likely fairly early?).... not sure if her mom or either parent would get up with her to pack her lunch, get her breakfast, kiss her goodbye, see her off, etc, so presumably one or the other or both might be getting up early as well?? (so presumably would have been in bed at that time?)...

I have always imagined, for some reason, that it was Jayme who made the 911 call, reportedly on her mom's phone. I think I read one time that Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen, but I'm not sure if that was theorized, or if it was fact? Is it confirmed that 13 year old Jayme did in fact have her own cellphone? Could Jayme have secretly been in her bed/bedroom using her mom's phone?

It just strikes me weird to hear the perp only made it 5 feet into the home and stayed for 4 minutes or less.
-Why would both parents be so close to the front door that they could be shot dead that quickly..
-Why weren't they in bed?
-Why did 911 dispatch call it out as a possible suicide, presumably and obviously based on the call?
-Why did first officers on scene report only one-person down, and then only after 6 minutes, report a second person down, if everyone was in such close proximity to the front door?
-It took 6 minutes for 2 officers to report 2 people down even though it only took 4 minutes to get from initial 911 call to the home?
-How is that possible, if shooter only made it 5 feet inside the front door?

"[115-10/15/2018 01:05:19] 325 ADVISED ONE MALE DOWN, MULTIPLE ROUNDS SPENT. REQUESTED THAT ADMIN BE NOTIFIED."
"[115-10/15/2018 01:11:02] 317 ADVISED TWO SUBJECTS DOWN.
[115 - 10/15/2018 01:19:27] 317 REQUESTED THAT 501 RESPOND TO THE SCENE FOR TWO SUBJECTS DOWN, UNRESPONSIVE"

Obviously Jayme also was not in bed, if the perp only made it into the home by 5 feet. I imagine that said perp would have had to quickly whisk/carry/drag Jayme out of the home, surely she would have been devastated at the sight of both her parents shot dead and wouldn't want to just walk over their presumably bloody bodies to exit out the front door with said perp, yet he didn't need to come in any further than 5 feet to fetch her? How is it that everyone in the house was so conveniently and immediately close at hand?

Has anyone ever posted a floorplan of the house on this Closs thread? Would be interesting to know where the bedrooms were in relation to the front door, and where the kitchen was, etc.

How did police not pass the perp's/get-away vehicle as they were travelling the road to her home, while the perp was exact same time travelling away from her home?

In the 911 call report, I saw something about a pole camera... was nothing able to be seen on the footage from that?? If not, why not?? Could this indicate there was no vehicle at all? If so, and said perp(s) and Jayme were on foot, why would the dogs have been unable to follow the scent(s)?
"1:38 301 REQUESTED PHOTOS OF THE PROPERTY.
1:54 317 ADVISED ERT REQUESTING POLE CAM."

I can't believe this crazy case hasn't made any headway yet, after 2 months?? I read recently that police are going to revisit more from the beginning.. seems like a great idea. "With this in mind investigators in Jayme's disappearance have begun re-interviewing people and working back through interviews already conducted in a bid to find any inconsistencies." Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

W

Wonderful post! I ask those same questions. The sheriff just recently gave the information that the gunman only traveled five feet into the house! Why now?

 

[FruitSnack]

I have to reprint another poster for my bay window. the condensation keeps making her pictures run. am laminating this time. just was praying she would be already found.
I went in the gas station yesterday and on the TV with the Powerball numbers they had her amber alert still posted. the numbers would change game to game but her alert remained. made my heart happy, as you have to look at it if you go into pay. the TV is next to the clerks head. I am glad to see it running and dont want it to end but how long will they run the amber alert? I know it was really debated over even getting one out as it didn't meet the criteria.

 

[1987]

I am so sorry for your terrible loss! But, thank you for sharing your story because so many people don’t understand what happens with the brain when blood touches it. Our son had a tree limb weighing over 200lbs fall across his forehead when we were camping. A “freak tragic” accident is what the arborists, police & everyone else called it. Anyway, my point here is that when blood touches our brain tissue it is like acid. You can never restore that part of the brain again. If the blood gets to the center of the brain (if I recall correctly) it is the pituitary gland, once the blood hits that there is no coming back. You are legally considered brain dead. The machines are the only things keeping your heart alive, keeping you breathing. Once those machines are turned off you can not survive on your own. My personal opinion; you are not living. You are just existing. I would rather give other families a chance to spend more time making memories and living with their loved one that needs a transplant.

BTW- it took the Doctors TWO days to finally announce our son brain dead. Sometimes it’s quickly, sometimes not so much.


Just my opinion & experience

so sorry for what you and your family had to endure.

 

[1987]

Why would you put your child in the middle of that situation?

I don't think anyone would knowingly. IF the person was known but not known to be a danger I could see it. the time it happened at would make me question though.

 

[FruitSnack]

I am never here anymore due to lack of updates. So I apologize if this already has been shared. The front door we all thought was the front was actually the patio door. See the pumpkins...

Edited after I got on my computer. Not claiming this to be fact. The only similarities is the decals on the windows, which could just be on both doors. The wood frame on the photos are not the same though. So it makes me question...

not sure when these pics were taken but there is a cut in the screen that I could easily fit inside but I am the size of jayme. my husband is larger and he said he would struggle but could get though that size too.
also, if you have a small dog. you wouldn't have a hole in your screen door of that size.

 

[elektroangel]

Question for anyone with a Ring doorbell: Do you think a Ring doorbell would have helped in this case, by clearly recording the perp who came to the front door? Or would the criminal just kick and destroy the doorbell along with kicking down the door?

If a Ring doorbell is immediately destroyed is a useful video retrievable?

Mine isn't even on the door. Half the time people don't see it and they knock. But I still see them!