AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

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What are those reasons?

we believe what the family says about the kind of people the closs family was, kind, helping, close to their daughter, why not believe when the sisters say on the phone call he was home. my view is either we believe them in whole or not at all. so that is why I think he was home that night.

I didn't read the post I commented on well enough. not awake good yet. still is what I think.
 
we believe what the family says about the kind of people the closs family was, kind, helping, close to their daughter, why not believe when the sisters say on the phone call he was home. my view is either we believe them in whole or not at all. so that is why I think he was home that night.

I didn't read the post I commented on well enough. not awake good yet. still is what I think.
BBM
Yep, that's why you thought rosesfromangels asked that question of you. :)
 
Not real sure what's "sophisticated" about it. You don't get towns that are much smaller than mine-fewer than 2,000 people in the entire county (city limits only has 500). You can literally buy these phones in any Dollar General store in my town. You walk in, hand over the money, and get your phone and the phone card. My son did it himself when he was 10. It's not any different than buying anything else in the store. There are no contracts involved.

I am not sold on this idea one way or the other. I don't have strong feelings about what happened in this case at all. I can't help but think that the main resistance to this idea is because it somehow implies something bad about Jayme. It doesn't. As I said in my other post, nobody outside of my immediate family knows that our son has his own phone. (Well, you all do now, of course.) It's a backup safety measure and I know other people who have provided them for THEIR children as well.

And Barron has them at their dollar store. Used to be quite the hot seller, probably still are. Children in rural communities/small towns are no less sophisticated when it comes to telephones or electronics. I have a preteen relative that just informed me knows how to hack a computer, the child is from a small town. We are not talking about living in the boonies with no services or in a remote cabin in the Yukon. There is wireless internet, there is great cell reception, etc. Barron is less than ten miles from Rice Lake where while not huge, there is a Menard's, a SuperWalmart, a Kohl's, Applebee's, Arby's, Taco John's, Hardee's, McDonald's, Burger King, Holly Hobby, Shopko, a small mall, two dollar stores, Jimmy John's, Pizza Hut, Papa Murphy's, Kentucky Fried, Walgreen's, Office Max, Goodwill, a ReStore, Subway and I could go on and on. The reason I point this out and state so many of them is I am trying to portray that although on a map you see no large towns and it all looks so rural, Rice Lake, for instance, has quite a bit for the well under 8,000 and some size of its population. Kids are just as savvy as anywhere else and have fairly easy access to the same things. In fact, the phone and internet use, etc. may even be higher since they are in a small town with nothing much to do (Barron itself) and long winters.

They may be more rural and live in a safer area than a big metropolis but when it comes to the ways of pre-teens or teenagers they are no different than anyone else's kids, especially with electronics.

I am not one that favors this theory. However, as I have said before that electronic sniffing dogs were used and they were looking for something or had some reason to bring in what is probably not a commonly used resource and they seemed to think a perp may come back for something he did not have time to take.

People that talk about such a phone are not blaming Jayme for anything. It is in my opinion pretty naive to not consider such a thing and various scenarios when it comes to predators.
 
we believe what the family says about the kind of people the closs family was, kind, helping, close to their daughter, why not believe when the sisters say on the phone call he was home. my view is either we believe them in whole or not at all. so that is why I think he was home that night.

I didn't read the post I commented on well enough. not awake good yet. still is what I think.
Great post; got it.
However, maybe the sisters were aware he was home, and then he went out for a period of time. We will just have to wait until more facts are released.
I think we are going to see movement in this case soon, and my prayers for Jayme continue.
 
What are those reasons?

A few I can't comment per TOS but I will say there is enough that convinces me beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not.

A few I can comment on:

LE will not confirm it, it is avoided at all costs it almost seems like and in one interview, he got a bit frustrated about the subject.
Most factories do not run shifts on Sundays unless it is a third shift starting at 11-ish even with OT.
People and time lines have him as working until 11, yet he was home at 10 per the family.
The first person to say it was the grandfather and this is what Denise told them for why he was not at the party. Since then I think another family member said it once and it was said in a more vague way that as far as they know he was at work. It just has never been confirmed.
I have known people who use such excuses to not go to such an event and it is not uncommon, it doesn't prove it but it is not uncommon. A man saying I worked all week and have to go to a party for your sister's grandchild? Not saying this to be mean but I think anyone married (or many) may be able to relate to this... :)

If you take these things, add in ones I can't talk about, I just lean towards that he was not at work. Maybe he stopped by work but I do not believe he worked.

It is just an opinion and speculation, I have no proof.

ETA: He was also a Packer fan. If he did work on this Sunday (no game until Monday), it was not a usual day for him to choose to work because most games are played on Sunday. So I do not believe it was typical nor likely for this reason as well.
 
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I was figuring that since there was no evidence, no witnesses, no nothing to go on, they brought the dogs in just to make sure there wasn’t a security/nanny camera in the house somewhere. I have one in my living room that covers the front, back and garage door coming into the house. They’d need a dog to find it, too.
 
Not real sure what's "sophisticated" about it. You don't get towns that are much smaller than mine-fewer than 2,000 people in the entire county (city limits only has 500). You can literally buy these phones in any Dollar General store in my town. You walk in, hand over the money, and get your phone and the phone card.
Respectfully snipped for focus. Yes, buying a burner phone is not a sophisticated motion; you can find them everywhere. However, if you intend to use one for purposes of subterfuge in a high stakes situation, you would have to be thoughtful about your trail/breadcrumbs. While the process is certainly not as easy as tracking a registered phone, LE does have the ability to determine the location of burner phones; leveraging the Carriers cell towers, and other means. Determining who purchased the burner is more difficult, but possible when following the aforementioned bread crumb trail. I'm not going to get in to more specifics than that.

Bottom line - it takes time, but can be done. So why doesn't this happen more often? Because it is very resource intensive, and resources are something LE doesn't have a lot of. : (

Source: Me. I'm a nerd.
 
Not disagreeing with your overall premise, but most large industrial plants are 24/7/365.

It could be, I have no idea. It did not used to be, be nice if we could ask someone. It used to be two shifts and then sanitation teams came on as food plants have to be sanitized. And Sunday would be the day the parking lot was empty. This is based on a long time ago, maybe someone else can tell us what is true there today?

Even then, I guess, I still have other reasons for thinking he did not work. I am trying to follow the rules and can't state them. And an almost 30 year was it employee, I would think one would have a regular shift re seniority and a line supervisor position if one so chooses. If this was Saturday, I could believe it, not so easily on Sunday.

Finally, Sunday is when most Packer games played (and football in general). This alone should say something. He is not going to choose to work Sundays as a rule if he has a choice.

Again, it is simply my opinion. I respect that others may differ.
 
I have known people who use such excuses to not go to such an event and it is not uncommon, it doesn't prove it but it is not uncommon. A man saying I worked all week and have to go to a party for your sister's grandchild? Not saying this to be mean but I think anyone married (or many) may be able to relate to this... :)
Respectfully snipped.
Ahahahaha! So true. Agree, and now it makes sense. : )
 
Respectfully snipped for focus. Yes, buying a burner phone is not a sophisticated motion; you can find them everywhere. However, if you intend to use one for purposes of subterfuge in a high stakes situation, you would have to be thoughtful about your trail/breadcrumbs. While the process is certainly not as easy as tracking a registered phone, LE does have the ability to determine the location of burner phones; leveraging the Carriers cell towers, and other means. Determining who purchased the burner is more difficult, but possible when following the aforementioned bread crumb trail. I'm not going to get in to more specifics than that.

Bottom line - it takes time, but can be done. So why doesn't this happen more often? Because it is very resource intensive, and resources are something LE doesn't have a lot of. : (

Source: Me. I'm a nerd.
If I may add, this is also a 13 year old we are talking about. I agree with what Roses said, and I don’t believe a teen keeps up her end of the subterfuge flawlessly. Which is how this would have had to have gone down, since there’s no evidence of a burner (or online coaching). My teen can’t get the milk back in the fridge better than half the time...
 
OK, thanks. It should be easy enough to confirm so, it looks like another bit of information that's not been confirmed or contradicted publicly.
I never thought of this until now but could it possible he was working but not at the turkey plant? Sometimes I will say that my husband can't be somewhere because he is busy working on a day when he is out cutting firewood, or fixing the car or fixing someone elses car for sidework etc. IMO he could have been working a side job for extra money or doing a repair or chore the family needed done while Denise was at the party, if he was not at the turkey plant.
 
If I may add, this is also a 13 year old we are talking about. I agree with what Roses said, and I don’t believe a teen keeps up her end of the subterfuge flawlessly. Which is how this would have had to have gone down, since there’s no evidence of a burner (or online coaching). My teen can’t get the milk back in the fridge better than half the time...

Agree with you, as well. Purchasing a burner phone would require the teen to A) have money, and B) be conscious of the fact that ANY place selling items like that will have cameras. If Jayme had been purchasing something like this for herself, LE already knows it.

The question is whether, or not, someone else could have been purchasing them for her. With all the chatter that occurs around teenage circles, I would almost guarantee LE would know about that, as well.
 
Respectfully snipped.
Ahahahaha! So true. Agree, and now it makes sense. : )

It is true and many women know it. It was meant with humor and no offense at Jim. I have heard such comments many times in my own life... We also know there was a certain "disconnect" with him and the family as the family said so. Again, I am not trying to be mean, I just think when you connect the dots, it was an excuse not to go is most likely.
 
If I may add, this is also a 13 year old we are talking about. I agree with what Roses said, and I don’t believe a teen keeps up her end of the subterfuge flawlessly. Which is how this would have had to have gone down, since there’s no evidence of a burner (or online coaching). My teen can’t get the milk back in the fridge better than half the time...
: )
I thought the reference to a potential burner phone was suggested meaning the *Perp* used one. Agree it is highly unlikely that a teen could think something like this through. Covering the tracks of a burner phone requires a bit of skill.
 
I never thought of this until now but could it possible he was working but not at the turkey plant? Sometimes I will say that my husband can't be somewhere because he is busy working on a day when he is out cutting firewood, or fixing the car or fixing someone elses car for sidework etc. IMO he could have been working a side job for extra money or doing a repair or chore the family needed done while Denise was at the party, if he was not at the turkey plant.

Just as likely and possible. They had a busy life, he could have needed to use the weekend to catch up on some job around the house or as you say fix a car, change the oil, etc. Or helping a buddy for some cash get some job done.
 
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