Found Deceased WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019

[MyBelle]

I can't see this being personal at all. It's way too violent.

Too violent and too far from home to be personal.

JMO

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Too violent and too far from home to be personal.

JMO

Perhaps it was murder for hire?

 

[MyBelle]

Perhaps it was murder for hire?

I doubt a murder for hire would take 9 or 10 hours.

 

[human]

Carjacked and killed then perp walks away?

So perp lives nearby?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I doubt a murder for hire would take 9 or 10 hours.

We don’t know where she was murdered or the circumstances (if she WAS murdered, but that’s likely). Whatever happened to her, happened in broad daylight. Somewhere. I don’t think anyone would risk being seen setting a car on fire in the daylight, do you?

 

[human]

People can search this for crimes

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[diggndeeperstill]

https://www.gurnee.il.us/docs/default-source/press-releases/shooting-investigation.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Here is a shooting, random that happened a month early at a hotel connected to Gurnee mills mall. Not saying it’s connected, but crime nearby has happened.

We don’t know where she was murdered or the circumstances (if she WAS murdered, but that’s likely). Whatever happened to her, happened in broad daylight. Somewhere. I don’t think anyone would risk being seen setting a car on fire in the daylight, do you?

It was not in broad daylight when car found at 9:50 pm, but agree something had to happen in daylight IF she got in her car alive to leave.

 

[Joe Friday]

We don’t know where she was murdered or the circumstances (if she WAS murdered, but that’s likely). Whatever happened to her, happened in broad daylight. Somewhere. I don’t think anyone would risk being seen setting a car on fire in the daylight, do you?

Sunset was at 5:07 PM on this particular day.

I doubt the car was set on fire and burned for close to five hours unnoticed. First off when a car burns it gives off really black smoke, which would have been very noticeable if it was still daylight. Just look at some video on YouTube if you want to see. Second, a car wouldn't burn for that long, it would burn itself out.

I do agree that if Kathleen was abducted by someone it had to have happened in broad daylight since she should have arrived at her destination before it was dark, but apparently didn't

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Sunset was at 5:07 PM on this particular day.

I doubt the car was set on fire and burned for close to five hours unnoticed. First off when a car burns it gives off really black smoke, which would have been very noticeable if it was still daylight. Just look at some video on YouTube if you want to see. Second, a car wouldn't burn for that long, it would burn itself out.

I do agree that if Kathleen was abducted by someone it had to have happened in broad daylight since she should have arrived at her destination before it was dark, but apparently didn't

Let me clarify . . . I write as bad as Fox6 ! I wrote:

“I don’t think anyone would risk being seen setting a car on fire in the daylight, do you?”

That translates (in my brain ) to . . . The car was set on fire much later. The 911 call was made at 9:50PM, traffic in that area was probably very light, retail stores nearby closed (by 9PM), most people at their destination or home for the evening. Anytime after 9PM was a SAFE time to set it on fire.

 

[human]

Let me clarify . . . I write as bad as Fox6 ! I wrote:

“I don’t think anyone would risk being seen setting a car on fire in the daylight, do you?”

That translates (in my brain ) to . . . The car was set on fire much later. The 911 call was made at 9:50PM, traffic in that area was probably very light, retail stores nearby closed (by 9PM), most people at their destination or home for the evening. Anytime after 9PM was a SAFE time to set it on fire.

So what was happening all day?

She was going to the game. There are a couple of hours for eating and shopping, Then what?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

So what was happening all day?

She was going to the game. There are a couple of hours for eating and shopping, Then what?

The only sighting of KR was by neighbors seeing her leave home. We don’t know where she stopped near her home. Could she have stopped off at the school to pick something up that she forgot to bring home with her that she wanted to take to the game?

She could have been killed in the Milwaukee area and the perp could have waited until that evening to drive her car to where it was torched. There would be an accomplice . . .

 

[MyBelle]

We don’t know where she was murdered or the circumstances (if she WAS murdered, but that’s likely). Whatever happened to her, happened in broad daylight. Somewhere. I don’t think anyone would risk being seen setting a car on fire in the daylight, do you?

The car was set on fire at night.

 

[Joe Friday]

Speculation if Kathleen was killed by someone she knows. Don't get mad at me I'm just speculating.

If Kathleen was killed in the Milwaukee area by someone she knew, I can't see this person driving her car and dead body to where the vehicle was found and setting the car on fire. If this happened someone would have needed another way to get back home. It's just to far to go and to much of a coincidence that the car was found so close to Kathleen's destination for this to be plausible IMO.

However I can see someone secretly following Kathleen as she made her way towards Illinois and perhaps persuading her to pull over closer to where the car was found. This person may have pulled up along side Kathleen on I-94 and got her to follow them onto Hwy 41 and they both pulled over somewhere to talk. Maybe this person got into the car with Kathleen. An argument ensues. Kathleen is killed. Car is driven a short distance away and left in the secluded driveway and started on fire. Perp gets away before car is noticed to be on fire. Walks to their own car parked not far away (within a mile or two) and drives home. Depending on how clever this person is, the body could have been moved to the drivers seat to make it look as if Kathleen was driving. If Kathleen was found somewhere other than drivers seat this might make this theory more plausible. (Don't forget if someone wants to commit suicide they can sit in the car where ever they want, maybe even locking themselves in the trunk)

Another possibility if Kathleen was killed by someone she knew is Kathleen was killed by one or both of her sons. (I said don't get mad at me) Maybe Kathleen actually arrived earlier than the information we have been told by her son. Would explain why Kathleen left house at noon. Perhaps she meets her sons somewhere before the game, something happened, Kathleen was killed. Son(s) went to game. Of course Kathleen doesn't show up. Car is later driven to secluded driveway and started on fire. Explains the lapse in time until the car was found on fire. Make up story of looking for Kathleen and report her missing. If both sons are involved they are each others alibi. I don't give this theory much credit but it could be a possibility and I'm just speculating.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Sunset was at 5:07 PM on this particular day.

I doubt the car was set on fire and burned for close to five hours unnoticed. First off when a car burns it gives off really black smoke, which would have been very noticeable if it was still daylight. Just look at some video on YouTube if you want to see. Second, a car wouldn't burn for that long, it would burn itself out.

I do agree that if Kathleen was abducted by someone it had to have happened in broad daylight since she should have arrived at her destination before it was dark, but apparently didn't

I agree the car wouldn't burn for that long. Firemen also got there while the car was burning. I think KR stopped at the Mall to do some shopping and was approached by someone, perhaps a female, who asked for a ride and KR agreed or was forced to comply.

An accelerant was likely used to ensure the swift incineration of the evidence. In the Jessica Chambers murder, she was able to get out of the car and try to speak to first responders.

JMO

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Speculation if Kathleen was killed by someone she knows. Don't get mad at me I'm just speculating.

If Kathleen was killed in the Milwaukee area by someone she knew, I can't see this person driving her car and dead body to where the vehicle was found and setting the car on fire. If this happened someone would have needed another way to get back home. It's just to far to go and to much of a coincidence that the car was found so close to Kathleen's destination for this to be plausible IMO.

However I can see someone secretly following Kathleen as she made her way towards Illinois and perhaps persuading her to pull over closer to where the car was found. This person may have pulled up along side Kathleen on I-94 and got her to follow them onto Hwy 41 and they both pulled over somewhere to talk. Maybe this person got into the car with Kathleen. An argument ensues. Kathleen is killed. Car is driven a short distance away and left in the secluded driveway and started on fire. Perp gets away before car is noticed to be on fire. Walks to their own car parked not far away (within a mile or two) and drives home. Depending on how clever this person is, the body could have been moved to the drivers seat to make it look as if Kathleen was driving. If Kathleen was found somewhere other than drivers seat this might make this theory more plausible. (Don't forget if someone wants to commit suicide they can sit in the car where ever they want, maybe even locking themselves in the trunk)

Another possibility if Kathleen was killed by someone she knew is Kathleen was killed by one or both of her sons. (I said don't get mad at me) Maybe Kathleen actually arrived earlier than the information we have been told by her son. Would explain why Kathleen left house at noon. Perhaps she meets her sons somewhere before the game, something happened, Kathleen was killed. Son(s) went to game. Of course Kathleen doesn't show up. Car is later driven to secluded driveway and started on fire. Explains the lapse in time until the car was found on fire. Make up story of looking for Kathleen and report her missing. If both sons are involved they are each others alibi. I don't give this theory much credit but it could be a possibility and I'm just speculating.

JMO

I don’t see the sons doing this ....

Could she have been seeing someone secretly? Perhaps she had arranged to meet this person that afternoon? That opens up all kinds of possibilities. Jealous spouse, revenge by spouse or death by lover?

There really are a range of possibilities

 

[nancygraceless]

Women are usually killed by their ex- or their current.

 

[LarkBunting]

I know reports say it was KR in the car, but I'd like to know where in the car:
Driver's seat, passenger seat, backseat,
or the trunk. Until then, I'm whipping in the wind.

When early local news reports came out about a body found burned in a car, it was said the body was found in the backseat. These reports are now nowhere to be found. Thus, take this as hearsay, as I have no sources to back it up.

Speculation if Kathleen was killed by someone she knows. Don't get mad at me I'm just speculating.

If Kathleen was killed in the Milwaukee area by someone she knew, I can't see this person driving her car and dead body to where the vehicle was found and setting the car on fire. If this happened someone would have needed another way to get back home. It's just to far to go and to much of a coincidence that the car was found so close to Kathleen's destination for this to be plausible IMO.

However I can see someone secretly following Kathleen as she made her way towards Illinois and perhaps persuading her to pull over closer to where the car was found. This person may have pulled up along side Kathleen on I-94 and got her to follow them onto Hwy 41 and they both pulled over somewhere to talk. Maybe this person got into the car with Kathleen. An argument ensues. Kathleen is killed. Car is driven a short distance away and left in the secluded driveway and started on fire. Perp gets away before car is noticed to be on fire. Walks to their own car parked not far away (within a mile or two) and drives home. Depending on how clever this person is, the body could have been moved to the drivers seat to make it look as if Kathleen was driving. If Kathleen was found somewhere other than drivers seat this might make this theory more plausible. (Don't forget if someone wants to commit suicide they can sit in the car where ever they want, maybe even locking themselves in the trunk)

Another possibility if Kathleen was killed by someone she knew is Kathleen was killed by one or both of her sons. (I said don't get mad at me) Maybe Kathleen actually arrived earlier than the information we have been told by her son. Would explain why Kathleen left house at noon. Perhaps she meets her sons somewhere before the game, something happened, Kathleen was killed. Son(s) went to game. Of course Kathleen doesn't show up. Car is later driven to secluded driveway and started on fire. Explains the lapse in time until the car was found on fire. Make up story of looking for Kathleen and report her missing. If both sons are involved they are each others alibi. I don't give this theory much credit but it could be a possibility and I'm just speculating.

JMO

No way in heck her sons did anything to her. She was beloved by them, not to mention their time was accounted for bc they were (well, 2 out of 3 of them were), literally, at work coaching basketball. There is no way her kids would’ve harmed her or had her harmed. I will eat all of our hats if that turns out to be the case.

 

[yabbyyou]

An accelerant was likely used to ensure the swift incineration of the evidence. In the Jessica Chambers murder, she was able to get out of the car and try to speak to first responders.

One of the points those who thought Chambers's death a suicide made was that she was able to get out of the car because no one was there to stop her.

 

[MyBelle]

One of the points those who thought Chambers's death a suicide made was that she was able to get out of the car because no one was there to stop her.

I never believed JC's death was a suicide. I think KR was dead before the fire was started.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

In response to the question of how a perp could carry out an abduction, murder and car fire without an accomplice or hired hit man, I looked into the possibility of using a combination of walking and public transit. While it would be a bit complicated and time consuming, if one is really motivated to kill and stage it as a random crime, suicide or accident, I think it could be possible and worth the effort "to go through all that."
Here is ONE MAYBE POSSIBLE scenario. I expect it will be immediately shot down. Fire away!
1) Park one's vehicle near a public transit parking lot (see first link below for just a few possible choices).
2) Use a bus, taxi, etc. to meet the victim somewhere (pre-arranged meeting, or knowledge of where she will be).
3) Victim is willingly or unwillingly transported to an out-of-sight location and murdered there, or murdered inside her car.
4) Victim is then transported, likely in the trunk, to the car fire location.
5) On the way to the car fire location, perp either buys or picks up previously hidden accelerant.
6) Perp may move her body from the trunk to driver's seat, depending on the staged scenario--leave it in trunk for car jacking; move it to driver's seat for accident or suicide.
7) Under cover of darkness, perp flees the scene and makes his way to a bus stop, either on foot, by taxi, or another ride.
8) Buses leave Gurnee Mills Mall as late as 10:24 PM on Saturdays. There are likely other bus stops in the vicinity, possibly closer to the scene. According to the second link, it takes about 49 minutes to walk from the truck stop to the mall. The fire was reported at 9:50 and, I believe, fully engulfed when firefighters arrived, so likely set some time before, but IDK how long before to be fully engulfed. Perp may or may not have time to get all the way to the mall in time for the bus, if on foot. Other bus stops might be closer or have later departure times.
SECOND MAYBE POSSIBLE SCENARIO: Similar to the first, but instead of leaving a vehicle near a transit parking lot, the perp leaves the get-away vehicle at the mall prior to beginning the abduction-murder, possibly the evening before, and returns home by public transportation. If the perp owns, or has ability to use, a second vehicle, that might make the execution of the crime easier as he could use the second vehicle to meet the victim the next day (Saturday) and it would also make following her an option.

I agree that an accomplice or a hit man would make murder by a known person a lot easier. But most of us here have followed some pretty crazy murder plots over the years, so I never say "never."

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