Found Deceased WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019

[Eleanor Rigby]

How can LE find evidence when it’s disintegrated by fire?

IMO, the police are shifting their investigation from looking at (the badly damaged) evidence from the scene to examining the electronic trails and interviewing people who may provide information or clues. Some of the quotes do seem conflicting, but I just don't get the sense that LE has written off her death as a suicide. JMO.

"But their investigation is far from over. The sheriff's office said they are still going through electronic evidence."
"Investigators are still looking for people they have not talked to who might have seen Kathleen on February 2nd."

 

[OhThatVictoria]

It is not hard to imagine a Catholic family's discomfort when confronted with the possible suicide of a loved one. As for the passenger seat, all she needed to do was to park the car and then slide over.

It is very difficult for us to imagine suicide by fire. In reading back through this thread however, I was surprised how many times people have actually committed the act, and inside their vehicles too.

The officer's words are loud and clear. "There is nothing that has brought us to any conclusion that somebody did this to Kathleen. We don't have any evidence somebody caused this to happen to Kathleen."

For some reason I have a very hard time believing that Kathleen would have selected the circumstances of that day to commit suicide. Speaking with her sons earlier, planning to be at their game and spend time with Grandkids after . . . then not showing up and killing yourself? I don’t think that a woman who loved her family as deeply as portrayed, would inflict such emotional pain on them.

 

[nyonge]

For some reason I have a very hard time believing that Kathleen would have selected the circumstances of that day to commit suicide. Speaking with her sons earlier, planning to be at their game and spend time with Grandkids after . . . then not showing up and killing yourself? I don’t think that a woman who loved her family as deeply as portrayed, would inflict such emotional pain on them.

I have no idea what happened really, but if she did commit suicide, and especially in such a dramatic manner, she was deeply troubled, and trouble can project itself in many directions, following certain paths for reasons we can only guess. I also have no idea about the family dynamics at work, as newspaper reports and interviews with survivors may not tell the story the dead woman might tell if she were alive to tell it. I probably would not even begin to believe this was a suicide if the officer had not opened the door to such conjecture in his recent statement (see above). But he did.

 

[Rosiebones]

Two thoughts about this.
The first is that I haven't been in a car for years that I could slide from the driver side to passenger side. All have had a large console that has coffee cup holders and the gear shift. She would have had to get out and walk around and get in the passenger side if she was alone. So, do you think she did that?
Second did she have a health issue that she felt that she couldn't cope with and that she didn't want to inflict her family with dealing with ?

 

[nyonge]

Two thoughts about this.
The first is that I haven't been in a car for years that I could slide from the driver side to passenger side. All have had a large console that has coffee cup holders and the gear shift. She would have had to get out and walk around and get in the passenger side if she was alone. So, do you think she did that?
Second did she have a health issue that she felt that she couldn't cope with and that she didn't want to inflict her family with dealing with ?

Good point. I think she probably did exit the vehicle and re-enter on the passenger side, which, if she killed herself, would have allowed more room for whatever she needed to do.

We don't know if her cancer had perhaps recurred (she had survived cervical cancer in the early 2000s).

 

[Rosiebones]

One more thought, I wonder if LE could measure the frame or track of the driver's side seat to see how far back it was at the time of the fire. If enough remained then maybe they could at least tell if the seat was up as far as she would have had it or was it back, indicating someone taller had been in the seat when it was parked.
I know the car was burnt out and not much remained.

 

[Curiousobserver]

IMO, the police are shifting their investigation from looking at (the badly damaged) evidence from the scene to examining the electronic trails and interviewing people who may provide information or clues. Some of the quotes do seem conflicting, but I just don't get the sense that LE has written off her death as a suicide. JMO.

"But their investigation is far from over. The sheriff's office said they are still going through electronic evidence."
"Investigators are still looking for people they have not talked to who might have seen Kathleen on February 2nd."

Agree- They do not seem to have written this off. Its very odd that she was found in the passenger seat and that a car could burn as intensely as it must have for so long as it must have burned before it was reported and extinguished. Also odd to have parked the car there if you were a perp trying to evade detection. It's a driveway and visible from the road. And if it was a carjacking or robbery where are the ATM transaction attempts? So many open questions-

I don't think they can rule out suicide easily because the circumstances around a suicide always seem "out of the blue" to those around the victim. None of the actions victims take ever seem logical to outsiders.

Probability says she would have killed herself by any other means except self immolation and she would have most likely been in the driver's seat if she had done that. That is a painful and frightening way to go unless you already have some medication to render yourself unconscious (which there should be some record of her obtaining). And why add fire if you have pills already?

Its not unprecedented but when you add odd details to something already very odd it makes you wonder.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I have no idea what happened really, but if she did commit suicide, and especially in such a dramatic manner, she was deeply troubled, and trouble can project itself in many directions, following certain paths for reasons we can only guess. I also have no idea about the family dynamics at work, as newspaper reports and interviews with survivors may not tell the story the dead woman might tell if she were alive to tell it. I probably would not even begin to believe this was a suicide if the officer had not opened the door to such conjecture in his recent statement (see above). But he did.

Agree- They do not seem to have written this off. Its very odd that she was found in the passenger seat and that a car could burn as intensely as it must have for so long as it must have burned before it was reported and extinguished. Also odd to have parked the car there if you were a perp trying to evade detection. It's a driveway and visible from the road. And if it was a carjacking or robbery where are the ATM transaction attempts? So many open questions-

I don't think they can rule out suicide easily because the circumstances around a suicide always seem "out of the blue" to those around the victim. None of the actions victims take ever seem logical to outsiders.

Probability says she would have killed herself by any other means except self immolation and she would have most likely been in the driver's seat if she had done that. That is a painful and frightening way to go unless you already have some medication to render yourself unconscious (which there should be some record of her obtaining). And why add fire if you have pills already?

Its not unprecedented but when you add odd details to something already very odd it makes you wonder.

If someone used medication to dull the pain (render yourself unconscious) it might get tricky to light a fire. Agree that suicide is never logical, esp if no note has been left.

 

[kirkassoc]

While the two possibilities you listed are possible, from the beginning I've wondered about a third possibility--a "hit" or targeted murder. Though Kathleen doesn't, on the surface, seem like the usual type of victim for such a murder, it does happen.

The oddness and mystery surrounding the circumstances of her death, that many have remarked on, are what made me consider the possibility of a contract killing or planned murder. If this was the case, it's not surprising that LE cannot find evidence of where, or if, she stopped somewhere, or how she died.

Kathleen was last seen at her home around 12:30, but the game, only fifty miles away, didn't start until 4:30. If she had left St. Francis around 12:30 to head to Mundelein, it would seem logical that she planned to stop somewhere along the way, yet LE cannot find any evidence of that.

Ryan's family says she was heading to Mundelein, Illinois, on Saturday to watch her sons coach a basketball game. She was last seen at her home near the St. Francis-Milwaukee border around 12:30 p.m. She was supposed to be at the game around 4:30 p.m. but never showed up.

Kathleen's car was found at a location that was not on the route she used to travel to Mundelein.

We just believe that's not her," Sam Ryan said. "It was off the path she would have taken to get to Mundelein."

Family holds hope for missing Milwaukee teacher

I find it very suspicious that Kathleen was not seen anywhere after being spotted at her home around 12:30 and that she and her car were located off of her known route of travel. I believe that Kathleen never started driving to Mundelein that day because she was either killed or abducted before she got the chance. I think Kathleen (dead or alive, but probably dead) was driven in her car under cover of darkness on back roads to the location where she and her car were found "torched." I don't know the area, but there are usually back roads with no, or very few, surveillance cameras in most areas that can be used to get places without being recorded.

The suspicious circumstances involving her disappearance between 12:30 and 10:00 and being found burned beyond recognition in her car are what has led me to think Kathleen's death was a planned murder that involved more than one person--so, either a contract killing or a killer that knew her and had an accomplice. As strange as that sounds, I think from the little information that has been made public that the evidence for this is stronger than for an abduction, robbery and murder from a gas station, store or restaurant along her known route of travel.

I wonder who, if anyone, has benefitted from her death.
All just my opinion only.

I cannot fathom suicide by burning, but if a person is so bent on committing suicide and they also want to make SURE their loved ones would benefit from any insurance and want their loved ones to be untouched by the stigma a suicide might cause, etc., they might go about it as KR did.

Any other method of suicide (other than her car going off the road into deep water) might cancel out any insurance policy and leave her family even more distraught (having to deal with a suicide). Still, I'm sure LE is investigating when and where any extra gas may have come from and if KR purchased anything in the last few months?

I'll admit, this is one of the most perplexing cases (Dermonds being another one) that I've heard about.

It would be interesting to have a forum where all the really, really unusual death investigations are brought together to be reviewed and analyzed by WSleuthers.

 

[Curiousobserver]

If someone used medication to dull the pain (render yourself unconscious) it might get tricky to light a fire. Agree that suicide is never logical, esp if no note has been left.

Agree- lots of open questions on this one.

Her being in the passenger seat makes all my original long-shot theories pretty much out the window.

1) She pulled over due to a car-fire and passed or heart attack out from fumes/smoke- makes no sense to be in the passenger seat
2) She passed out from drugs or alcohol and had been smoking- again- makes no sense to be in the passenger seat

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I cannot fathom suicide by burning, but if a person is so bent on committing suicide and they also want to make SURE their loved ones would benefit from any insurance and want their loved ones to be untouched by the stigma a suicide might cause, etc., they might go about it as KR did.

Any other method of suicide (other than her car going off the road into deep water) might cancel out any insurance policy and leave her family even more distraught (having to deal with a suicide). Still, I'm sure LE is investigating when and where any extra gas may have come from and if KR purchased anything in the last few months?

I'll admit, this is one of the most perplexing cases (Dermonds being another one) that I've heard about.

It would be interesting to have a forum where all the really, really unusual death investigations are brought together to be reviewed and analyzed by WSleuthers.

I would love that sort of forum if we had access to real evidence. That’s what makes weighing in on these cases so challenging, we don’t know what we don’t know.

 

[Justice4242]

Sorry, but I’m not buying suicide here. I think there is something big here missing.

 

[kay74]

It's been so long. I can't believe they have not seeing all the electronic surveillance.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Not suicide.

Jmoo

 

[sumzero]

LE has probably already ruled out the most obvious suspects and the most likely reasons for her death. Now what?

 

[Rosiebones]

Through out all of these discussions and speculations about what happened the one thing that, if we knew, would help to narrow and focus the discussion is the WHY, the motive or reason. If it was a suicide, why? If it was a carjacking or some sort of crime WHY ?
I don't get the sense that LE has a strong idea of the motive either.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Through out all of these discussions and speculations about what happened the one thing that, if we knew, would help to narrow and focus the discussion is the WHY, the motive or reason. If it was a suicide, why? If it was a carjacking or some sort of crime WHY ?
I don't get the sense that LE has a strong idea of the motive either.

Exactly.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Through out all of these discussions and speculations about what happened the one thing that, if we knew, would help to narrow and focus the discussion is the WHY, the motive or reason. If it was a suicide, why? If it was a carjacking or some sort of crime WHY ?
I don't get the sense that LE has a strong idea of the motive either.

This case screams anger and retaliation to me. I do not believe it was suicide. It could be related to some private drama no one was aware of, or it could be related to drama with her spouse.

 

[kay74]

In my opinion someone held a gun to her and marched her around the car to the passenger side, then shot her in the driveway and set the car on fire after they got her money. I believe it was said there is a gas station right near that area she was found in. I imagine LE checked that first. I think it was an abduction and robbery, pure and simple.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

In my opinion someone held a gun to her and marched her around the car to the passenger side, then shot her in the driveway and set the car on fire after they got her money. I believe it was said there is a gas station right near that area she was found in. I imagine LE checked that first. I think it was an abduction and robbery, pure and simple.

Why would a robber need / want to shoot her sitting in the passenger seat instead of sitting in the driver seat? What would be the advantage of that? IMO, neither Kathleen nor her car projected an image of affluence. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to find a more expensively attired, accessorized and bejeweled woman driving a much more expensive car. That type of woman might very well be wearing much more valuable jewelry and carrying more cash. According to reports, Kathleen and her husband were separated and divorcing, so it's likely she wasn't even wearing a wedding and engagement ring. Based on what has been reported, Kathleen's credit cards were not used by anyone else and she was not forced to withdraw money from an ATM. I just don't see any good evidence for a robbery, or a motive for following it with an intense car fire. MOO.