WI WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - #1

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It looked to me that we have to pay to get info. Regarding where it is docked...

Did any WSer find out where it is moored/docked?

TIA...:seeya:

It appears to cost $7.98 to find that out.

Edited: Take that back. I found it. Derry, NH Well that's where he lives. Obviously it isn't docked there because there is no water.:blushing:
 
More thoughts on potential evidence found ~

Potential ="having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future."

Only KZ knows what "potential" evidence may mean. If he knows something belonging to Kelli was put in the garbage (that he figured they'd never look for or find) he may be very concerned. Especially if they found her phone or purse as those items could still have his prints on them if he held them.

He has admitted she has been to his apartment, I'd imagine potential evidence would be something bigger than just having been hers (i.e. her phone, bloody towels/clothes, etc.).
Taking this one step further, loading a large tote with gear/sails or large cooler with ice onto a boat would not seem unusual and could be quite heavy, requiring a hand truck or similar to transport. Even if he didn't have a boat or a friend with a boat, many public marinas offer rentals. I wonder if LE has looked into whether he may have rented a boat around the time of Kelly's disappearance.
From what I understand, the surveillance doesn't show anything she could have been taken out in, except (presumably) the garbage. Would be interesting to see the actual vids.

Edit: Just reread articles about it and it says surveillance shows her entering the building but not exiting. Question is, how many exits are there? Also, how many cameras? My friend used to live in building with one main, secure entrance with a camera, but we always left (with him or without) through a fire exit at the bottom of the stairwell. There was no camera there as there was no way in the door from the outside.
 
He has admitted she has been to his apartment, I'd imagine potential evidence would be something bigger than just having been hers (i.e. her phone, bloody towels/clothes, etc.).
From what I understand, the surveillance doesn't show anything she could have been taken out in, except (presumably) the garbage. Would be interesting to see the actual vids.

She is listed at 5' 7" and a 160 pounds. Not a tiny girl who would fit into a suitcase, I wouldn't think. I hate to go there but is it possible she was not "whole" at the time and was put in garbage bags. Surely LE would have found DNA if that were so.
 
She is listed at 5' 7" and a 160 pounds. Not a tiny girl who would fit into a suitcase, I wouldn't think. I hate to go there but is it possible she was not "whole" at the time and was put in garbage bags. Surely LE would have found DNA if that were so.

That is some fairly messy business as well, though. I'd think they'd have spotted something while doing the drug search (I personally wondered if it was just an excuse to look for evidence of her).
 
Ah, if the computer containing the CP were in fact at someone else's house then possession is not as clear as one would hope. Courts have repeatedly pointed to "dominion and control" as vital elements to any charge of legal possession.

Without a confession from KZ on the CP possession, they'll likely have a difficult task proving "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he possessed the CP given that he lacked "dominion and control" of the computer containing the CP.

They can/do jump through evidentiary hoops to imply/prove KZ's dominion and control of the computer at a time when the CP was on it and thus possession. But a good (read: well-funded) defense team is likely to be able to parade through a string of computer forensic experts who would poke holes in the prosecution's claims. Password protected computer, digital breadcrumbs, date-time stamps, etc--all of which can be spoofed and compromised. I think that's why LE, despite having long, digital evidentiary trails connecting specific IP's to specific file DL's, often run simultaneous busts on a large number of CP suspects at the same time--so they can catch them in physical possession of the goods

An ancillary consideration is that relative to most of the CP arrests one reads about--where 10's of thousands of files /terabytes of CP are found in a single sicko's possession--KZ's CP collection of 23(?) files barely qualifies as a collection--as offenisve and disgusting a collection as it apparently was.

It's also possible that given the EXTREMELY demented nature of the CP KZ had, that he wasn't necessarily into CP. KZ also apparently had multiple adult GF's?

It's possible that KZ's interest in those specific files was an ephemeral one of a sorta cyber-rubber-necking at a horrific event--like an ********* type interest. Also, the files were found in the default download directory for Limewire. Possibly suggesting he had a one time, disgusting interest that he hopefully didn't follow up on.

No doubt the police and forensic psychiartists and CP experts will be able to determine-- based on other files on KZ's computer/his internet browsing history etc--what KZ's overall/on-going interest in CP was. And given the challenges of proving possession, they might decide to prosecute or not based on their evaluation of why he had those files.
Wasn't the drive seized under a warrant for search and seizure for drugs and paraphernalia? Fourth amendment says that a warrant must specify the type of evidence, and given that an external drive or data disc most certainly would not have been labelled CP, it could be argued that it certainly doesn't fall under the purview of the warrant. The lawyers might argue it as an illegal seizure and thus inadmissible, leaving prosecution with no evidence...

Edit: I meant that obvious evidence sitting in plain sight unrelated to a warrant can be seized as well, but in this case the evidence isn't obvious visually until the drive/disc is taken and actually searched.
 
Wasn't the drive seized under a warrant for search and seizure for drugs and paraphernalia? Fourth amendment says that a warrant must specify the type of evidence, and given that an external drive or data disc most certainly would not have been labelled CP, it could be argued that it certainly doesn't fall under the purview of the warrant. The lawyers might argue it as an illegal seizure and thus inadmissible, leaving prosecution with no evidence...

Edit: I meant that obvious evidence sitting in plain sight unrelated to a warrant can be seized as well, but in this case the evidence isn't obvious visually until the drive/disc is taken and actually searched.

I see what you're saying. I'm going to take this over to our "ask a lawyer" thread and see if I can get an opinion on this.
 
The possibility that KZ may harm himself sounds like a valid one...

I hope MKE can shed light on this aspect...

JMO

I do think that's possible. I think he would elect to overdose if he could get his hands on drugs.
 
That is some fairly messy business as well, though. I'd think they'd have spotted something while doing the drug search (I personally wondered if it was just an excuse to look for evidence of her).

Other posters list her as 5'5 and 145lbs. Plus, she was losing weight recently so she may have been even smaller.
 
Other posters list her as 5'5 and 145lbs. Plus, she was losing weight recently so she may have been even smaller.

Thanks!

so Kelly had been losing weight...

Had she been trying to lose weight?

Or was the weight loss due to other factors?

TIA...:seeya:
 
FYI... I was googling a search for Kelly at the McKinley Marina yesterday...

found nothing..:(

maybe LE will be searching today, too?.... Or instead of yesterday?

:dunno:
 
Thanks!

so Kelly had been losing weight...

Had she been trying to lose weight?

Or was the weight loss due to other factors?

TIA...:seeya:

She had been successfully losing weight for quite some time through diet and exercise.
 
Wasn't the drive seized under a warrant for search and seizure for drugs and paraphernalia? Fourth amendment says that a warrant must specify the type of evidence, and given that an external drive or data disc most certainly would not have been labelled CP, it could be argued that it certainly doesn't fall under the purview of the warrant. The lawyers might argue it as an illegal seizure and thus inadmissible, leaving prosecution with no evidence...

Edit: I meant that obvious evidence sitting in plain sight unrelated to a warrant can be seized as well, but in this case the evidence isn't obvious visually until the drive/disc is taken and actually searched.

You would need to see the entire contents of the warrant. If the original charge included "drugs w/ intent to deliver" or however WI UCC defines it, the warrant most likely covered the scope of "accessing any electronic device which may contain material that is commonly used to maintain record keeping" JMO from submitting 100s of warrant requests. Do we even know what the warrant was in regards to? If the judge signed a warrant in regards to searching for evidence that may provide info on a missing person, than mostly anything and everything is fair game. There was probably no scope of limitations.
 
Search and seizure can be tricky. For instance, lets suppose a judge signs a warrant to search a residence for a stolen 50" TV. Only the areas of the residence that can be searched are those which could reasonably contain a TV. You couldn't search a desk drawer. On the other side, let's say the warrant is for locating a stolen ring. Basically the entire residence where a ring could be stored is searchable. Which essentially means ANYWHERE. Warrants depend on the creative writing of the person requesting it, and the generosity of the of the judge who signs it.
 
She had been successfully losing weight for quite some time through diet and exercise.

So with your knowledge of Kelly's weight loss and exercise habits, you must know Kelly fairly well also. Are you involved in helping locate her?
 
There were two different posters that I saw. Each had different heights and weights. No one knows my weight so I can see how they get that wrong. They have to estimate.

I would think Kelly's mother would know her height. They need to pick one and stick with it.
 
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