WI WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - #1

[Woe.be.gone]

To answer your prior question..I almost always thought he was guarded/overly private. He didn't act strange with people though. He got along well with people for the most part. He did open up to me sometimes but he sometimes would lie if he wanted to avoid a topic or getting too close. He once referred to himself as having a damaged goods mentality. It made me feel sad.

Oh, and I thought the same thing about the congratulations! Congratulations to me (sarcasm). But I'm sure the person posting meant well. I'm finding this rather therapeutic so I appreciate the conversations.

Interesting. KZ's comment is sad and he probably didn't elaborate. I wonder why he referred to himself that way. The reason may have to do with what was uncovered.

I'm not sure if Ihavenoclue was being sarcastic. I didn't take the post that way - a well-meaning poster who is often funny so is capable of friendly sarcasm. Umm, ???? :waitasec:

(Where did the sarcasm symbol go? There used to be one off to the side here. Sarcasm is hard to decipher minus tone and visuals.)

Glad to be here for you to help you process the situation.

 

[jenna75]

He posted bail and is out of jail.

That was quick.

Still no news on the search for Kelly? I can't imagine the pain of having police search for your child in a landfill. Are there other areas LE is searching? Any evidence found in KZ's apartment that might lead them to believe she isn't alive?

Jenna

 

[Woe.be.gone]

His guardedness could be a clue to a possible motive for Kelly's murder. It makes me think that she discovered something (i.e. his cache of CP) that night he didn't want her to know or maybe in a euphoric state of being stoned on cocaine, he felt safe enough to confide his interest in CP to her and she reacted by threatening to go to police. Either way, he may have then wanted to silence her.

This would suggest he didn't plan her murder (if in fact he did it - I'm not prejudging) and so a first degree murder charge may not be in the cards.

The damaged goods reference is interesting as it is indicative of low self esteem which may be consistent with both his drug use and CP interest.

KZ is thirty-eight and had a lot of things going for him. Counseling would have been a better choice versus continuing to dive deeper into damaging behaviors that resulted in the degradation of others/children.
If he's found guilty, it's too late for him imo.

Every person is responsible for their own choices. If he took Kelly's life because she discovered unspeakable secrets about him, there aren't any mitigating factors that can soften my opinion of the danger he poses to society. There's no excuse for his choices that led to his circumstances today. He is damaged beyond repair.
As sad as it is when anybody ends up broken and twisted, level headed people don't want perps, who are capable of the crimes being alleged, walking free.

Ever since KZ was arrested due to the child *advertiser censored*, I have to remind myself that this thread is about Kelly.
Our duty is to protect children who may fall prey to people who want to harm them.

 

[UncannyCanuck]

He posted bail and is out of jail.

Wow, that was fast - only one day after his lawyer complained in court that his family didn't have that kind of money.

mke - do you think you might be seeing him now that he is out?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It has come to my attention that I made a social blunder...

and I wish to apologize that my post sounded insensitive to MKE...

I truly did not intend to be sarcastic at all...

In fact... I feel for someone whose friend has been placed in the middle of a crime... In whatever capacity...

I hope I will be forgiven... And will think a little longer before I press "send" on my posts...

:seeya:

Everything gets so blown out of proportion around here sometimes. Now I feel I must reply to tell you that my comment, that started a string of posts I guess, was simply about what a specific word means.
Just so you know, it never crossed my mind you were being rude to mke.
Just the word 'congratulations' seems out of place in this context. Which is why, if one is on the other side of it and not sure how people feel about them, the comment could be misconstrued. Although not why I mentioned it to begin with.

I hope you can tell by my reply, typed before reading anyone else's reply, that I'll always give you the benefit of doubt regarding your intent. Even if sarcastic, which I know you didn't mean, it would fit better within the context. Because, as you say CLUE, who wishes to be an insider under these circumtances? To step up and do that is brave imo.

Hey, I'm supposed to be the sensitive one around here (peeps told me that all the time when I was younger), not you and everybody else! :loveyou:

 

[bwt42]

I think we would all be shocked if KD walked out of that apartment building. I think we would all be shocked if she left whatever way alive. That leaves us with how was she taken out and what happened to her in that apartment. Probably too many possibilities to guess how she was taken out. Now, what happened inside? Accident or overdose. An overdose would not be that problematic to KZ because she purchased the drug. Something happened that KZ felt would really damage him if found out. What could it be? I've thought of several possibilities but too speculative to mention.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://fox6now.com/2013/11/06/kris-zocco-posts-bail-wednesday-released-from-milw-co-jail/

Kelly's uncle comments about the surveillance cameras in and around Zocco's building. His comments are very fair but he's perplexed as to the unknown reason why there's no evidence that Kelly ever left the building.

 

[Samuke]

Regarding KZ's computer, no, we don't know the specifics of who or why. Why do you think leaving a personal computer in the care of someone else is common? Think of it from the perspective of KZ's age too.
He's a grown man. I'm curious about your views related to this as you've brought this point up before.
Here are my reasons why people don't commonly leave their unprotected computers with other people.

1. We use passwords for a reason. When I received my first laptop (versus desktop), it became my personal computer. No one was going to use it besides me unless they asked for my permission (I assumed).
When you're the sole owner, if things get screwed up, you are responsible.
At first, I didn't have my computer password protected. One day I noticed that my kid played games using my computer. The computer was on a tray in the family room and he decided to have fun with mom's new toy!
Not good. Dangling candy in front of a child is not recommended. After that, I created a password. As long as I logged off, I didn't have to worry about others using my computer.

KZ doesn't have children or roommates living with him but he must be savvy enough to password protect his personal computer.
Especially now that we've heard him described as a private person versus an open book type person.

2. Even if info on the computer is business related only, a man wouldn't want anybody messing with his stuff imo. There are programs available that make it possible to share and send common files to your colleagues.
Why would another person need require someone else's actual computer to review or do additional work on a common project?
Isn't KZ an IT professional? Doesn't that indicate he knows more about computers than most people do?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around why a man would leave his computer at a 'friend's house'.
Imo, along with KZ's current circumstances, I can't think of one good reason his computer wouldn't be with him.

Well I'm an adult, and my friends and mother as well, and we've certainly loaned each-other computers from time to time. We don't know what other contents or general use the laptop had, either. I mean, we can't assume he used it for business files or anything like that, or if he just used it for general purpose.

We do use passwords, yes, but generally to keep people we don't know out of our computers. Most friends don't have a sense of paranoia with one another, at least where I'm from. Most of my friends know the passwords for my computer, and I know theirs, or otherwise if borrowing a computer we'll set up a guest account for them or something. I'm not even suggesting that this is the case with him, obviously I'd have no idea why it would be at the friend's house, but I'm only saying that, for me, it's nothing suspicious at all, and my thoughts don't default to him hiding it. Especially since the police actually got it and knew it was his. I don't imagine if he was specifically trying to hide it he'd mention having it, or where it was, or admit to owning it.

WHERE DID YOU READ THAT KELLY'S MOM MADE CONTACT WITH THE OWNER OF THE KENOSHA NUMBER?
Can you find a link?
The only info I've read is that Kelly's mom has access to the phone records but the number in question was not in service when dialed. We can assume Kelly's mom may have dialed the number since she was looking for Kelly. Afaik contact was not possible/made.

It's actually the first link on the first page. The video said her mother called the guy and he said he hadn't seen her, and that she felt he had nothing to do with the disappearance. The part about the line being disconnected was in the second post, which says it's on the same link, but I didn't exactly see it. Relinked below for you.

Mother says 27 year old Milwaukee woman missing since Friday

http://fox6now.com/2013/10/13/mother-says-27-year-old-milwaukee-woman-missing-since-friday/

However, her mother seems a bit too trusting, imo. After all, she took KZ at his word that she'd left at 9.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think Kelly's mom started out trying to find her daughter by tracing her steps as best she could. The info we have came from a frantic mother trying to find her adult daughter. Her early comments were based on what she was told by the people who saw Kelly before she was missing. Just like Kelly's uncle didn't accuse anybody when he commented to the press, her mom didn't make harsh accusations either as she was only trying to gather information as to where she might find her daughter.

Once LE came on board, I'm sure they told her not to speak to the media or share details about the case.
Other family members of crime victims have said (on TV shows) that police don't tell them about evidence gathered relevant to the case very often.
Other than the arrests of KZ on unrelated charges, I don't believe LE has made any public statements about Kelly's case.

I'm going to review the first few days of news coverage tomorrow. As often happens, details of what was said early on escape me as time goes by.

The OKcupid connection is very concerning. Yet, LE doesn't seem focused on that as far as we know. No one can figure out how Kelly left or was removed from KZ's building. As far as I can tell, that's the main focus or evidence pointing to KZ so far.

 

[thesaint]

Regarding surveillance footage of Kelly leaving:

Possible she left earlier or later than the 9 am timeframe indicated.

Maybe KZ fell asleep at some point, woke up around 9 am for work and that's when he noticed Kelly was gone. She could've left some time in the night while KZ was sleeping--if he fell asleep, which there's nothing indicating whether or not he did.

Maybe Kelly knew someone else in the building? Apparently this is a new building in an area with new bars/restaurants. The building was originally meant to be condos and has instead been turned into rental units after the original developers went bankrupt (iirc). It's the type of building and location likely to attract single folks with an interest in the night life.

If Kelly's visting that building several times a week, perhaps she met someone else who lived there besides KZ. She'd maybe be able to go to this other person's apt without calling or texting, thus not leaving electronic breadcrumbs.

Maybe something happens at the other apt or maybe just visting someone else knocked her timeline off to the point the police aren't even checking the correct set of video surveillance tapes. Kelly didnt' have to be to work until the next day, Saturday. So even if KZ wanted to stop partying, she possibly did not want to stop at the same time.

 

[thesaint]

KZ not making much or any effort to clear his apt of various drugs and the police finding his computer at a friend's house are curious facts.

You would think/expect that if KZ were involved in Kelly's disappearance, he'd have cleared any illegal drugs out of the apt even before the police interview him on the following Tuesday. And then the police go away and are gone for 2 days and come back with a search warrant and he still hadn't cleared out the drugs. Very odd.

Possibilities:

1. KZ had nothing to do with Kelly's disappearance and didn't expect a return visit from the police after speaking with them Tuesday.

2. KZ was involved in Kelly's disappearance and decided to play chess to the cops' checkers by leaving the drugs for them to find, as maybe that makes him look more innocent of involvement in Kelly's disappearance.

3. Whether KZ was involved or not involved, his decision-making during this time was off and that's why he left the drugs in his apt.

It's just difficult to imagine that if KZ were involved, he would have left the drugs in his apt and been so cooperative with the police. Getting rid of anything illegal and lawyering up would've been the right move, regardless of whether or not he was involved.

I think many posters here do not hold it against POI's or even witnesses who hire lawyers right away. Your rights and freedom are at stake when you interact with the police and having a lawyer present/available to protect your rights is what everyone should do when having to deal with an LE investigation--at any level of involvement.

 

[thesaint]

As far as Kelly not being picked up on surveillance cameras leaving the building:

1. These surveillance system are notoriously wonky. Who knows what cameras were actually working and when. Hopefully LE vets the system and its time-stamps etc for accuracy.

2. Folks will sometimes step outside via an otherwise emergency side exit to smoke and then return to their units. Maybe Kelly exited via an emergency exit which lacked working surveillance.

3. It sounds like this building is fairly new and likely nowhere close to 100% occupancy. How many empty/never-rented units are in the building? It's possible that whatever happened with Kelly happened in one of these empty units. Or she was there for a time until whomever could safely remove her from the building.

4. Again, the time-line could be incorrect and Kelly left at some time other than 9 am. And maybe she knew someone else in the building, visited them and then either leaves or something happens from there.

I've seen cadaver dogs mentioned here a few times, e.g, Lauren Spier's case in Indiana.

How accurate are cadaver dogs? I got the impression that if someone passed recently in an apt a cadaver dog would not only alert but alert on any spot where the body rested.

I have no idea if the MKE PD ran cadaver dogs through KZ's place. They did have drug dogs when they came back to search. Do the dogs do double-duty? If so, is it possible that KZ left what to me was a rather large stash of stinky weed in the apt to mask and throw off the dogs from a more sinister scent.

 

[Samuke]

As far as Kelly not being picked up on surveillance cameras leaving the building:

1. These surveillance system are notoriously wonky. Who knows what cameras were actually working and when. Hopefully LE vets the system and its time-stamps etc for accuracy.

I know my mother once dropped some medication off at a pharmacy to be bubble packed (she worked in home care) that went missing, and despite the fact that I was there when she dropped them off, there was apparently no trace of her on surveillance and she ended up getting in a lot of trouble for those missing pills.

2. Folks will sometimes step outside via an otherwise emergency side exit to smoke and then return to their units. Maybe Kelly exited via an emergency exit which lacked working surveillance.

3. It sounds like this building is fairly new and likely nowhere close to 100% occupancy. How many empty/never-rented units are in the building? It's possible that whatever happened with Kelly happened in one of these empty units. Or she was there for a time until whomever could safely remove her from the building.

I tried to go back to see if anyone had Google Mapped his building. I look up the address specified in the drug complaint and, though I couldn't identify which building it was, I noticed there were a lot of buildings with decks (or whatever they're called), which are a cliché for drug users falling off. Also possible for somebody to throw something off a deck and go out to retrieve it without being seen on camera. Any idea if KZ had a deck?

 

[bwt42]

KZ not making much or any effort to clear his apt of various drugs and the police finding his computer at a friend's house are curious facts.

You would think/expect that if KZ were involved in Kelly's disappearance, he'd have cleared any illegal drugs out of the apt even before the police interview him on the following Tuesday. And then the police go away and are gone for 2 days and come back with a search warrant and he still hadn't cleared out the drugs. Very odd.

Possibilities:

1. KZ had nothing to do with Kelly's disappearance and didn't expect a return visit from the police after speaking with them Tuesday.

2. KZ was involved in Kelly's disappearance and decided to play chess to the cops' checkers by leaving the drugs for them to find, as maybe that makes him look more innocent of involvement in Kelly's disappearance.

3. Whether KZ was involved or not involved, his decision-making during this time was off and that's why he left the drugs in his apt.

It's just difficult to imagine that if KZ were involved, he would have left the drugs in his apt and been so cooperative with the police. Getting rid of anything illegal and lawyering up would've been the right move, regardless of whether or not he was involved.

I think many posters here do not hold it against POI's or even witnesses who hire lawyers right away. Your rights and freedom are at stake when you interact with the police and having a lawyer present/available to protect your rights is what everyone should do when having to deal with an LE investigation--at any level of involvement.

He cooperated with police yet had cp that could net him 425 yrs.

 

[mke2013]

As far as Kelly not being picked up on surveillance cameras leaving the building:

1. These surveillance system are notoriously wonky. Who knows what cameras were actually working and when. Hopefully LE vets the system and its time-stamps etc for accuracy.

2. Folks will sometimes step outside via an otherwise emergency side exit to smoke and then return to their units. Maybe Kelly exited via an emergency exit which lacked working surveillance.

3. It sounds like this building is fairly new and likely nowhere close to 100% occupancy. How many empty/never-rented units are in the building? It's possible that whatever happened with Kelly happened in one of these empty units. Or she was there for a time until whomever could safely remove her from the building.

4. Again, the time-line could be incorrect and Kelly left at some time other than 9 am. And maybe she knew someone else in the building, visited them and then either leaves or something happens from there.

I've seen cadaver dogs mentioned here a few times, e.g, Lauren Spier's case in Indiana.

How accurate are cadaver dogs? I got the impression that if someone passed recently in an apt a cadaver dog would not only alert but alert on any spot where the body rested.

I have no idea if the MKE PD ran cadaver dogs through KZ's place. They did have drug dogs when they came back to search. Do the dogs do double-duty? If so, is it possible that KZ left what to me was a rather large stash of stinky weed in the apt to mask and throw off the dogs from a more sinister scent.

I was also thinking that she could have easily known someone else in the building. It sounds terrible but she might have been dismembered or something like that and, if that happened, they would have found a lot of evidence in KZ's apartment. The crime must have happened in a different location other than his apartment unit.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

All the imaginable scenarios about Kelly leaving KZ's apartment could be possible but aren't probable imo.
Never working in or around LE myself, I'm not familiar with general procedures LE follows, how quickly they move to the next step, if they do more investigation right away to rule out less likely scenarios, etc. I'd like to think they do but don't really know why, how or when they broaden their scope in an investigation.

I'm sure they checked the OKcupid angle, I hope. Kelly's mom turned in Kelly's computer therefore LE looked for clues there. LE has her phone records. They have KZ's story. If he claims Kelly left at 9:00 a.m., there's no reason to change his own words around. (KZ is the person who said Kelly was on Farwell Street which places her outside his building.) LE probably boadens their research of the suveillance tapes surrounding the time he stated though. One would hope they do anyway.

Our problem is we don't know what evidence gathering procedures LE has done or if they found anything.

From other cases, afaik, dogs are trained geared to one specific purpose.
A cadaver dog is a cadaver dog, a drug detection dog is a drug detection dog
(the broad category may be scent dog but they're trained to detect specific scents).
A cadaver dog is able to find any dead person whereas a scent dog is trained to smell a sample
(something belonging to a specific person) for the purpose to locate or alert on that person's trail.
(I'm typing what I think I've learned on WS about dogs with jobs. A WS member, sarx, is a verified SAR guy who knows dogs.)
There are dogs who search for people, any person, buried in rubble. So do those dogs know how to detect dead and/or alive persons? Their purpose initially is to find living people. Beyond the rescue stage, dogs are used to find deceased people. Are these a different set of dogs? Probably.
This is why there are experts in every subject imaginable. :crazy:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

He cooperated with police yet had cp that could net him 425 yrs.

Yesterday I ran across a truck driver case (who most likely was in Fayetteville, NC, April 13-14, 2012, when Kelli Bordeaux disappeared.) They blocked him from entering Canada on the 19th. He had child *advertiser censored* on his computer. His sentence is only for five years :scared:. He pled guilty. As of September 2012, he's been in prison in Florida.

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Florida-Trucker--148549885.html
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=80614

 

[SmoothOperator]

KZ not making much or any effort to clear his apt of various drugs and the police finding his computer at a friend's house are curious facts.

You would think/expect that if KZ were involved in Kelly's disappearance, he'd have cleared any illegal drugs out of the apt even before the police interview him on the following Tuesday. And then the police go away and are gone for 2 days and come back with a search warrant and he still hadn't cleared out the drugs. Very odd.

Possibilities:

1. KZ had nothing to do with Kelly's disappearance and didn't expect a return visit from the police after speaking with them Tuesday.

2. KZ was involved in Kelly's disappearance and decided to play chess to the cops' checkers by leaving the drugs for them to find, as maybe that makes him look more innocent of involvement in Kelly's disappearance.

3. Whether KZ was involved or not involved, his decision-making during this time was off and that's why he left the drugs in his apt.

It's just difficult to imagine that if KZ were involved, he would have left the drugs in his apt and been so cooperative with the police. Getting rid of anything illegal and lawyering up would've been the right move, regardless of whether or not he was involved.

I think many posters here do not hold it against POI's or even witnesses who hire lawyers right away. Your rights and freedom are at stake when you interact with the police and having a lawyer present/available to protect your rights is what everyone should do when having to deal with an LE investigation--at any level of involvement.

I take into account that this man was a somewhat regular drug user..and that's strictly going off his very own claims to LE that Kelly regularly visited his apt couple times a week to do cocaine with him..just to do cocaine.. as he also claims that she had never been to his apt and not done cocaine.. IMO that appears to be a fairly regular drug user therefor IMO leading to not having the most clear, rational, or well thought out processes..jmo..

I then take into account that this man has an extensive, violent collection of child *advertiser censored* including, but definitely not limited to repeated torturous rape scenes of toddlers, 2yoa.. This fact, alone leads me to believe that in no way shape or form does this man's mind, thought processes, choices/decisions make sense to the vast majority of the human race.. His mind IMO is clearly very "nonsensical" in terms of attempting to apply rational thought processes, decisions, reactions, etc..

All jmo, tho.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[J Block]

This is only my second post. Let me preface this by saying, I've been an on/off lurker for about 5 years. I became a "full-time lurker" during the infancy stages of the LISK investigation. From there, I've been following several active missing persons cases since I officially joined about a year ago. I've had conversations w/ Kimster about becoming a verified poster, but due to conflicts of interest/occupational sensitivity, I've elected to not divulge any personal information. So you can take the following w/ your own judgement: I've been involved in Law Enforcement for nearly two decades. I've been a Major Crimes Det. for several years.

While there're countless advances in investigative tools since I started in LE, one of the most successful tools is canvassing. Good old fashion police work. IMO, that entire complex has been gone over w/ a fine tooth comb. Regarding the dogs. I'm not a K/9 handler, but, while there're cross-trained dogs, I believe those dedicated to a single/specific ability are used when available. I was part of a mutual aide team who responded to (what's now known as Ground Zero) after the 9/11 attacks. SAR dogs were used for approximately the first week while it was considered a rescue, not a recovery. After that, cadaver dogs, dogs trained in explosives, etc. were used.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

This is only my second post. Let me preface this by saying, I've been an on/off lurker for about 5 years. I became a "full-time lurker" during the infancy stages of the LISK investigation. From there, I've been following several active missing persons cases since I officially joined about a year ago. I've had conversations w/ Kimster about becoming a verified poster, but due to conflicts of interest/occupational sensitivity, I've elected to not divulge any personal information. So you can take the following w/ your own judgement: I've been involved in Law Enforcement for nearly two decades. I've been a Major Crimes Det. for several years.

While there're countless advances in investigative tools since I started in LE, one of the most successful tools is canvassing. Good old fashion police work. IMO, that entire complex has been gone over w/ a fine tooth comb. Regarding the dogs. I'm not a K/9 handler, but, while there're cross-trained dogs, I believe those dedicated to a single/specific ability are used when available. I was part of a mutual aide team who responded to (what's now known as Ground Zero) after the 9/11 attacks. SAR dogs were used for approximately the first week while it was considered a rescue, not a recovery. After that, cadaver dogs, dogs trained in explosives, etc. were used.

:welcome: J Block!

Your expertise in the field of Law Enforcement will be invaluable!

:seeya: