Identified! WI - Madison, WhtMale 18-35, 745UMWI, in chimney, fem clothing, German iron cross medallion, Sep'89 Ronnie Joe Kirk

[MadisonS]

You can try putting the address in the newspaper search. If it was retail, you may find an ad.

Phone books from the late 60's on up are hard to find.

Thanks. I already tried that and nothing from that time period came up. Maybe city planning has something. I might check with them next week.

 

[carbuff]

If he died in 1970 or 1971, his outfit is just a regular Hippie long paisley shirt, along with the shaggy vest and trenchcoat. Not a womans dress, even though 1970s fashion was wild and provocative.
His shoes are very 1969/1970. He absolutely died in 1970 or 1971, the latest

There was speculation way back in the thread that he might have been at a sixties-throwback Halloween party, but it I think you're right that his clothing points to a death date around 1970, give or take.

 

[Friday Fan]

Thanks. I already tried that and nothing from that time period came up. Maybe city planning has something. I might check with them next week.

With the exception of where Midas is located, all the address numbers have changed. Almost every time a new business arrives, the numbers change.
5225 is no longer an address. It changed again when Good N Loud was torn down.

History of 5225
1966-1976 Stop-N-Go Convenience Store, Essert Tailors (through 1974) were adjacent to each other...addresses were 5205 and 5213
1977 The Bread Shop was at 5205 (Addresses likely merged)
1989 Good N Loud was at 5225 (Building demolished around 2012)
2013-Current MOKA is at 5227


5205 and 5213 no longer exist. I can't find any mention of 5213 after 1976.

There was also small additional short term rent available at 5205. (Ad shows that Stop N Go and 5205 were adjacent) Aerials from 1969-1974 do not show any additional buildings. However, the building that became "Good N Loud" may have been two buildings connected via a breezeway. It appears the "The Bread Shop" owners merged the buildings. (Aerials are kinda grainy) Historic Aerials: Viewer


Of note are surrounding businesses: Full service Citgo gas station was where Midas is. At times the gas station had U-Haul rental, body work, vehicles for sale etc.
Where the motorcycle shop is: There was another motorcycle shop. These businesses probably set up shop in the late 1950's. The motorcycle shop closed down around 1972, the current shop opened in 1978. Midas set up shop in 1975.


I don't have a paid subscription to Newspapers.com, so these screenshots will need to do!


Liquor license for Stop n GO

 

[Friday Fan]

To add to the confusion.
I was wrong when I said that 5205 no longer exists. It is now the address of the motorcycle shop. But the motorcycle shop had the same number as Midas when it opened in 1978.

"Midas "and the former gas station are at 5201
"Cycles Inc", had the address of 5201-A
"Motorcycle Performance" originally was 5201, (same as Midas) but it was eventually updated to 5205

When Motorcycle Performance opened, 5205 was in use by the Bread Shop.

The Bread Shop may have changed their address to 5225 around 1988 or so.
Motorcycle Performance interchangeably went by both 5201 and 5205 for awhile.



Ah, business addresses....something we never think about...LOL
Total confusion..LOL

I read that renumbering often occurs due to the need for emergency vehicle access. Also, unlike residential, new buildings come and go from a business block.

I guess that's why deeds are all in archaic plot numbers etc...sigh...

 

[summergirl1]

Ronnie Joe Kirk disappeared in 1970. How did his skeleton end up in a music store chimney?

Modern DNA technology helped solve a major cold case but questions remain about how the person died.

wegotthiscovered.com

 

[carbuff]

Ronnie Joe Kirk disappeared in 1970. How did his skeleton end up in a music store chimney?

Modern DNA technology helped solve a major cold case but questions remain about how the person died.

wegotthiscovered.com

That article does confirm that the building has been torn down.

 

[Melquiades]

That article does confirm that the building has been torn down.

Also re-confirms that the clothing was legitimately women's clothing instead of just 'late 60s hippie garb' as some had been wondering.

 

[Pseudonymph]

Also re-confirms that the clothing was legitimately women's clothing instead of just 'late 60s hippie garb' as some had been wondering.

With the pelvis fractures, I would put money on this being gender-based violence, sadly.

 

[djanga]

With the pelvis fractures, I would put money on this being gender-based violence, sadly.

There is evidence he broke his pelvis bones in his teenage years as a result of an moto accident (there is an article cited on this thread).

 

[iamshadow21]

There is evidence he broke his pelvis bones in his teenage years as a result of an moto accident (there is an article cited on this thread).

I believe there was also a theory that damage to the pelvis could have occurred postmortem, when the body was forced into the chimney. This would apply if there was fresh damage, not just a healed break from his youth.

 

[Friday Fan]

I think he was dead so long that his clothes decomposed. Articles are just quoting the old Doe DNA entry. The Doe DNA Network said that after he was identified that there was no indication how he identified, so I will take their word for it.


I have thrown clothes in my compost pile and they take about a year to break down. The shoes were men's shoes. However, there is no evidence of a belt buckle. The roof of a Stop-n-Go/Tailor with a chop shop in the parking lot would be a very strange place for gender based violence.

Investigators also said he was dead only two years max. However, it was determined he was last known to be alive around 1970. He apparently worked in a factory, so his Social Security record (not discussed by investigators) would provide a clue as to when he disappeared.

“People are going to speculate about the so-called dress, and we feel that it was mislabeled as such since we have found no further evidence to suggest Ronnie ever identified as anything other than male,” said Megan Pasika, co-team leader for the DNA Doe Project. After 35 years of uncertainty, investigators ID skeleton found in Madison chimney

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I think he was dead so long that his clothes decomposed. Articles are just quoting the old DNA Doe entry. The DNA Doe Network said that after he was identified that there was no indication how he identified, so I will take their word for it.

I have thrown clothes in my compost pile and they take about a year to break down. The shoes were men's shoes. However, there is no evidence of a belt buckle. The roof of a Stop-n-Go/Tailor with a chop shop in the parking lot would be a very strange place for gender based violence.

I saw a photo in a news clip about his case and it looked more like a jumpsuit or a vest/matching pants than a dress to me.

 

[MadisonS]

I saw a photo in a news clip about his case and it looked more like a jumpsuit or a vest/matching pants than a dress to me.

View attachment 505558

Thank you! I had never seen photos of the clothes before. I wish the police had supplied clearer images that reproduced the paisley pattern.

 

[MadisonS]

I think he was dead so long that his clothes decomposed. Articles are just quoting the old Doe DNA entry. The Doe DNA Network said that after he was identified that there was no indication how he identified, so I will take their word for it.


I have thrown clothes in my compost pile and they take about a year to break down. The shoes were men's shoes. However, there is no evidence of a belt buckle. The roof of a Stop-n-Go/Tailor with a chop shop in the parking lot would be a very strange place for gender based violence.

Investigators also said he was dead only two years max. However, it was determined he was last known to be alive around 1970. He apparently worked in a factory, so his Social Security record (not discussed by investigators) would provide a clue as to when he disappeared.

I have thrown clothes in my compost pile and they take about a year to break down. The shoes were men's shoes. However, there is no evidence of a belt buckle. The roof of a Stop-n-Go/Tailor with a chop shop in the parking lot would be a very strange place for gender based violence.

Great detective work on finding the business names and number changes.

When you composted clothes in the past, I assume they were made from natural fibers. Polyester was supposedly very popular in the 60s/70s, and synthetic garments might survive several decades depending on the storage conditions. I still think he died in either 69 or 70. His clothes only survived as long as they did because they were synthetic or in the case of his shoes treated leather.

Whoever put him in that chimney might be former employee at one of the businesses or someone who performed contract work on the structure --people who would have spent time in the back lot to smoke or whatever. I wonder if the detectives have reached out to the business owners who were located there around the time he was last seen by family. Sadly, most of the people who would have knowledge of the building and its activity from that era might already be dead.

 

[Friday Fan]

Great detective work on finding the business names and number changes.

When you composted clothes in the past, I assume they were made from natural fibers. Polyester was supposedly very popular in the 60s/70s, and synthetic garments might survive several decades depending on the storage conditions. I still think he died in either 69 or 70. His clothes only survived as long as they did because they were synthetic or in the case of his shoes treated leather.

Whoever put him in that chimney might be former employee at one of the businesses or someone who performed contract work on the structure --people who would have spent time in the back lot to smoke or whatever. I wonder if the detectives have reached out to the business owners who were located there around the time he was last seen by family. Sadly, most of the people who would have knowledge of the building and its activity from that era might already be dead.

I also saw an ad for 1,000 sq ft plus full basement from 1969. I wonder if someone put him in the chimney by removing the basement enclosure and sealing it back up again?

I think they looked at the Christian bookstore and didn't see that type of opportunity. However, if they had gone back much further in time, maybe things would have appeared different?


Image source: Newspapers.com

 

[Laura Avery]

I'm thinking the "Dress" is probably a kaftan, quite common for men to wear in that era, here's a shirt version but you can get long ones also

 

[merplot]

I'm thinking the "Dress" is probably a kaftan, quite common for men to wear in that era, here's a shirt version but you can get long ones also

This is what I am thinking. It is NOT pants or a jumpsuit, as pattern pieces for pants do not look like that (I have a degree in fashion design). The big holes in that picture are the armholes, which makes it look to me like some sort of long vest over a matching shirt (seen in a different pic). That's why it gives me a hippie vibe. It is most likely natural fibers, as synthetic fibers such as polyester or nylon do not disintegrate like that (they are basically plastic).

 

[Susikatze]

I wouldnt waste too much thought on the blouse/dress. The 70s and early 80s saw a lot of gender bending fashion styles for men and women that were worn by straight and queer folks just the same. Platform heels, lycra skintight shirts and bellbottoms for men and pantsuits with ties for women were in fashion among the disco crowd.

 

[Susikatze]

This is what I am thinking. It is NOT pants or a jumpsuit, as pattern pieces for pants do not look like that (I have a degree in fashion design). The big holes in that picture are the armholes, which makes it look to me like some sort of long vest over a matching shirt (seen in a different pic). That's why it gives me a hippie vibe. It is most likely natural fibers, as synthetic fibers such as polyester or nylon do not disintegrate like that (they are basically plastic).

It looks like what they called a "cassock". A sleeveless long patterned shirt that men and women wore

 

[Friday Fan]

The Monkees circa 1967-1968. Paisley was everywhere...

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