WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[rosesfromangels]

Buster, I know it could appear that you are bringing something up that could have the potential to upset his sister, but also sometimes, it has the opposite effect. After a long period of time such as this, Bob's sister might have come to terms with the pain of the loss of her brother. She might be able to converse with you about it and even find it cathartic to talk to someone who knew Bob about it. Just a thought.

It is a leap of faith to contact her and it could have either negative or positive reactions. MOO

Cheers
Mani

If it were my brother and I knew a bunch of people were trying to help solve his murder, I would certainly want to know...and help if I could handle the emotional strain of revisiting that pain. I think it's wonderful of you to make the attempt Buster, and agree with Mani.

 

[deca]

I wonder if there are any WSers out there who lived near that area at the time? What kind of illegal activities were common? Did he stumble across a pot farm (or chop shop) while searching for his friends house?

 

[Mani]

I wonder if there are any WSers out there who lived near that area at the time? What kind of illegal activities were common? Did he stumble across a pot farm (or chop shop) while searching for his friends house?

Yes, did Bob come across something illegal? Was he going to do something before he met his mate Randy Griffith and had not told anyone about it. He may have got waylaid along the way and one thing is certain; he didn't make it to his final destination.

It is weird that he was looking for his friend in the wrong place, as it was some miles away from where he was expected at Randy's that night.

It would be great to be able to talk to Randy Griffith. I know that is probably not appropriate but if Bob's family and friends knew that people on WS were starting to ask questions, it could be the start of a conversation. Just a thought.

 

[McSpy]

If I was LE and I opened this cold case, I would try to find Robert's closest friends and/ or classmates to ask them a few questions (did he dabble in drugs? . .Would he pick up a hitchhiker?) He must have had other friends other than Randy. Maybe they could provide insight. I think they would feel freer to say something, since they aren't teens anymore. They may talk about pot, hard drugs and small town dealers if something like this was the reason he disappeared.

Just some thoughts.

 

[McSpy]

I would also reinterview Randy for insights, since he lived in the area Robert disappeared. Perhaps he learned about some odd characters over the years, or a rumor which was going around in the area.

Another thought . . . if Robert was meeting a friend before heading to Randy's house, was it possible he called this individual to arrange the meeting or vice versa? Did the police check the phone records? If he was meeting someone, it is odd the person never came forward.

Also, it would be good to know where the tree stand was located. Was it close to the tower where his car was found? Was it deep in the woods? Did he simply park the car near the tower to enter the woods from that spot? Was hunting season in full progress? Could he have been shot accidently by another hunter and the hunter panicked and buried the body? My guess LE checked out the tree stand area.

 

[Mani]

I would also reinterview Randy for insights, since he lived in the area Robert disappeared. Perhaps he learned about some odd characters over the years, or a rumor which was going around in the area.

Another thought . . . if Robert was meeting a friend before heading to Randy's house, was it possible he called this individual to arrange the meeting or vice versa? Did the police check the phone records? If he was meeting someone, it is odd the person never came forward.

Also, it would be good to know where the tree stand was located. Was it close to the tower where his car was found? Was it deep in the woods? Did he simply park the car near the tower to enter the woods from that spot? Was hunting season in full progress? Could he have been shot accidently by another hunter and the hunter panicked and buried the body? My guess LE checked out the tree stand area.

Good points here, especially the last one. That would be so sad if that is the case. Would Bob have arrived at the stand in the late afternoon?
Yes it would be good to know how far away it was.

Is it possible to ask any WS from Wisconsin about this area? Can we put out a call to WS from Wisconsin on here? Not sure if you guys are from that state or other parts of the US.

I might ask Kimster.

Postscript - I have put a notice in the Tiki Bar asking anyone with any information/familiarity of Wisconsin to come over to this thread.
I know it is inappropriate to ask members where they are from but there could be people on WS who have knowledge of the area Bob went missing in. Your country is like mine - it covers a lot of area and members range from far and wide.
I hope some members who know the area, hear the call and come on down.

Cheers

 

[masnitram]

The other thing I have wondered about is whether any other young men of Bob's age had gone missing around the same area in that same year?

Back in 1977 in that area of Wisconsin, was it unusual for people to go missing?
How did the locals feel about it?
Did any of the locals search with the local LE?

Being from Wisconsin, and having an Aunt who was in law enforcement in the late 70's (also in WI) I take special interest in cases from my home state. When I picked her brain about the Delafield John Doe case (which incidentally began two days before Robert's disappearance) she mentioned that most disappearances were solved rather quickly and were relatively uncommon in the Green Bay area where she worked. I would assume that was the same for Madison/Baraboo....but you never know.

I know the Outlaws motorcycle "club" was/is very prominent in Wisconsin and had chop shops and other shady businesses all over the state. I don't know if that is the gang Robert's sister got caught up with, but from what I have read Robert wasn't involved...nor was he a bad guy by any stretch of the imagination.

In that area of Wisconsin in particular you can find some pretty interesting terrain that you won't find anywhere else in the state. Lots of cliffs, bluffs, caves, deep lakes, the aforementioned quarries etc... in addition to some of the more traditional flat farmland Wisconsin is known for. Robert, who I feel unfortunately met with foul play, could literally be anywhere...especially in that part of the state.

I'll have to ask my Aunt and my folks if they heard of or remember this case. I was 6 months old at the time, but Robert was/is around their age.

 

[Mani]

Being from Wisconsin, and having an Aunt who was in law enforcement in the late 70's (also in WI) I take special interest in cases from my home state. When I picked her brain about the Delafield John Doe case (which incidentally began two days before Robert's disappearance) she mentioned that most disappearances were solved rather quickly and were relatively uncommon in the Green Bay area where she worked. I would assume that was the same for Madison/Baraboo....but you never know.

I know the Outlaws motorcycle "club" was/is very prominent in Wisconsin and had chop shops and other shady businesses all over the state. I don't know if that is the gang Robert's sister got caught up with, but from what I have read Robert wasn't involved...nor was he a bad guy by any stretch of the imagination.

In that area of Wisconsin in particular you can find some pretty interesting terrain that you won't find anywhere else in the state. Lots of cliffs, bluffs, caves, deep lakes, the aforementioned quarries etc... in addition to some of the more traditional flat farmland Wisconsin is known for. Robert, who I feel unfortunately met with foul play, could literally be anywhere...especially in that part of the state.

I'll have to ask my Aunt and my folks if they heard of or remember this case. I was 6 months old at the time, but Robert was/is around their age.

Thanks for that Masnitram - it is the local knowledge that helps everyone to understand what might have happened.

 

[McSpy]

An investigative journalist could write a story on Robert's disappearance for the local paper or for the Madison paper. Maybe leads could come from it.

 

[Mani]

An investigative journalist could write a story on Robert's disappearance for the local paper or for the Madison paper. Maybe leads could come from it.

That is a great idea. I wonder if this has been done through the years.
It is just so sad that this young man with everything to live for, has had his life cut short.

Someone must know something. How do the parents of people like Bob get through it? Man it must have been so tough for them.

It would at least have brought some closure if they could have found his body, if in fact he did die.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I find the opening statement about this case to be kind of strange.
Why is there no detailed information about the "friend" whom several have identified as Randy. Surely if he is around, his statements are extremely important. If Randy too is missing either way, this is very crucial information, why post this and keep that part dark?

A lot of important details have been left out, like the status of the hunting bow. It could be that LE is still withholding information to get a conviction after this length of time, but why tell us he stopped to buy a pack of small cigars?

There are very few details to go on here. I have been in that area, but do not live there. As a matter of coincidence I'm aware that back in the late 70's and early 80's that there was a lot of Marijuana growing in that area. At least 2 other people have posted about this. There should be some history of this area between hunters, bikers, growers and other events. I'm also aware that some people (from as far away as Chicago) would go up to that area to have satanic rituals.

The friend would seem to be the #1 clue and POI.
Beyond that:
1) Accidental death - The friend would likely be the determining factor here.
If so, his bones are out there somewhere.
2) Murder and cover up.
This would become a matter of who, why, etc...
of the possibilities mentioned, after this length of time someone would have to come forward. not likely, but it happens.
3) Decided to run away.
Doesn't seem to fit.
4) Abduction
Seems like this would just wind up being murder.

I'm not clear on the stuff about the tires and hub caps. The way I read it was that the old tires from someone else's car were found (could those tires not be traced??) along with the nice hub caps (which is how they correlated them to his car). What I'm not clear on is how long after this day he drove up there was his car found? Was it only 1 day? That's a pretty short time period for someone to stumble on the exact make of vehicle for a tire swap out in the woods. That's too fishy. But I would agree, the tires were ditched by someone local.

I'm leaning towards Murder because of the tires and the short time interval to find the car stripped. Just off the top of my head, this is what I would want to rule out:

1) Wrong place wrong time Murder:
ok we have; possible gangs, bikers, satanic types,
random criminals hiding out in the area, pot growers, and possibly
Winnebago or other Native Americans in the area.
2) Friend of a friend murder.
Ok, is this friend missing or not?
Who did he know? Maybe the "friend" did it.
Maybe a friend of a friend did it.
3) Hunting accident cover up.
Since it was deer hunting season, some idiot, known or not
could have shot him thinking he was a deer and covered it up.
Back then, hunters in wisconsin were only starting to wear orange gear.
A lot of people from Illinois suburban areas would make the short trip to this area to "hunt" once a year. I recall hearing Wisconsin sportsman complain about it and actually hunt much further north because of the dangers. Check the records for annual hunting accidents in this area. But then again, if the tires are connected to the disappearance it does point to someone local. Seems to me you could figure out all vehicles where those tires/rims would fit. And then track the old disposed tires to their eventual owners. For example, if the tires were sold to a gas station in the area it would narrow it down. Ok, it is very baffling that someone would take tires and a battery but not open the glove box. In a hurry? Really dumb? both?

 

[Satch]

I find the opening statement about this case to be kind of strange.
Why is there no detailed information about the "friend" whom several have identified as Randy. Surely if he is around, his statements are extremely important. If Randy too is missing either way, this is very crucial information, why post this and keep that part dark?

A lot of important details have been left out, like the status of the hunting bow. It could be that LE is still withholding information to get a conviction after this length of time, but why tell us he stopped to buy a pack of small cigars?

There are very few details to go on here. I have been in that area, but do not live there. As a matter of coincidence I'm aware that back in the late 70's and early 80's that there was a lot of Marijuana growing in that area. At least 2 other people have posted about this. There should be some history of this area between hunters, bikers, growers and other events. I'm also aware that some people (from as far away as Chicago) would go up to that area to have satanic rituals.

The friend would seem to be the #1 clue and POI.
Beyond that:
1) Accidental death - The friend would likely be the determining factor here.
If so, his bones are out there somewhere.
2) Murder and cover up.
This would become a matter of who, why, etc...
of the possibilities mentioned, after this length of time someone would have to come forward. not likely, but it happens.
3) Decided to run away.
Doesn't seem to fit.
4) Abduction
Seems like this would just wind up being murder.

I'm not clear on the stuff about the tires and hub caps. The way I read it was that the old tires from someone else's car were found (could those tires not be traced??) along with the nice hub caps (which is how they correlated them to his car). What I'm not clear on is how long after this day he drove up there was his car found? Was it only 1 day? That's a pretty short time period for someone to stumble on the exact make of vehicle for a tire swap out in the woods. That's too fishy. But I would agree, the tires were ditched by someone local.

I'm leaning towards Murder because of the tires and the short time interval to find the car stripped. Just off the top of my head, this is what I would want to rule out:

1) Wrong place wrong time Murder:
OK we have; possible gangs, bikers, satanic types,
random criminals hiding out in the area, pot growers, and possibly
Winnebago or other Native Americans in the area.
2) Friend of a friend murder.
OK, is this friend missing or not?
Who did he know? Maybe the "friend" did it.
Maybe a friend of a friend did it.
3) Hunting accident cover up.
Since it was deer hunting season, some idiot, known or not
could have shot him thinking he was a deer and covered it up.
Back then, hunters in Wisconsin were only starting to wear orange gear.
A lot of people from Illinois suburban areas would make the short trip to this area to "hunt" once a year. I recall hearing Wisconsin sportsman complain about it and actually hunt much further north because of the dangers. Check the records for annual hunting accidents in this area. But then again, if the tires are connected to the disappearance it does point to someone local. Seems to me you could figure out all vehicles where those tires/rims would fit. And then track the old disposed tires to their eventual owners. For example, if the tires were sold to a gas station in the area it would narrow it down. OK, it is very baffling that someone would take tires and a battery but not open the glove box. In a hurry? Really dumb? both?

Great post!

I agree, if Randy is still alive, he needs to get involved in this case again. If he is dead, that may close a main door to this case with tragic results. If Randy is found and does not want to talk about Bob, he would likely know that something bad happened to Bob, (accidental death or murder-either instance cover up.)

If I brainstorm, I come up with any of these causes:

1.) They just decide to run away? But the stripped car wouldn't make much sense in this instance.

2.) Accidental Death: Falling into a river, off a cliff or something, where if both Bob and Randy would be in the car, they would have likely died. We don't have the found car AFAIK, near that type of situation.

3)* Bob or both Bob and Randy got involved with a drug deal that went bad and both are dead.

4.)* Bob got involved with a drug deal. It went really bad, and turned fatal, Randy saw what happened and choose to run away because his life was threatened if he told what happened to Bob.

5.) *Randy and Bob picked up a stranded motorist, a hitchhiking situation and both met with foul play. The criminal or criminals hid the bodies and stripped the car.

If Randy is still out there and willing to talk without fear of consequence, it will clear up a lot of things. I'd like to hear and read more interviews from Bob and Randy's parents and family. Key evidence is still missing.

* = most likely possibility.

Satch

 

[Grifynne]

As I'm reading these, I have a couple more questions. I would still like to know if his bow hunting gear and other personal items were with the car or not, however I am also curious if he was supposed to meet Randy at Randy's mother's house or were they meeting elsewhere? Did they have a tree stand (as I have seen mentioned here) that would be a likely meeting point or someplace close to it (such as a nearby trail head)?

I apologize if this was already answered, but I don't recall hearing where they were actually supposed to meet. It seems to go straight to Randy's mother calling Robert's family to say he is missing. If they were meeting somewhere other than Randy's mother's home (which I assume is where Randy lived at the time), where would that be and did Randy have a car to get there? If he didn't have a car, how was he planning on getting there? Is it possible a third party might have given him a ride to a meeting location (if there was one)?

Since Randy's mother called, I assume they were supposed to meet at Randy's house and go from there, but I really wanted to clarify. Just wondering if Randy was at his mother's house up until the time they phoned Robert's family. If not, then there could have been an opportunity for unknown events to occur or for third parties to get involved that no one knows about other than Randy and Robert.

Also, I assume Randy is not actually missing. I didn't get that impression initially but if someone could verify that, that would be great. And if he isn't missing, was he interviewed and what was his reaction during this time? I would think that there would be statements made, etc. and articles would mention what Randy had to say about the situation since he was so closely involved? It would seem weird to me if he was totally silent and not asked anything during the investigation.

I feel like there are a few confusing gaps in what we know, including a few things that it seems like we should know but hasn't been directly stated yet, such as what was left int he car, where were they supposed to meet, was Randy missing and if not, what was his reaction to all of this? Again, I apologize if any of this was already covered. Just trying to get my facts straight. Thanks!

 

[deca]

Although we have scant details to go on, I thought that his disappearance went down this way:

Bob was supposed to meet with Randy at Randy's house (since R's mom knew about his visit). Bob got lost or confused about location of Randy's house (witness statement that Bob was stopped, looking around in a different area and told witness he was looking for his friend (house?)) Before arriving or finding Randy's house, something happened. An accident? A mugging? Randy's mom calls Bob's house to report that he didn't arrive.

Anyway, that is my take on the sequence of events. It seems like there are a lot of other ideas as to what was going on that night.
How can we find out more?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I find the opening statement about this case to be kind of strange.
Why is there no detailed information about the "friend" whom several have identified as Randy. Surely if he is around, his statements are extremely important. If Randy too is missing either way, this is very crucial information, why post this and keep that part dark?

A lot of important details have been left out, like the status of the hunting bow. It could be that LE is still withholding information to get a conviction after this length of time, but why tell us he stopped to buy a pack of small cigars?

There are very few details to go on here. I have been in that area, but do not live there. As a matter of coincidence I'm aware that back in the late 70's and early 80's that there was a lot of Marijuana growing in that area. At least 2 other people have posted about this. There should be some history of this area between hunters, bikers, growers and other events. I'm also aware that some people (from as far away as Chicago) would go up to that area to have satanic rituals.

The friend would seem to be the #1 clue and POI.
Beyond that:
1) Accidental death - The friend would likely be the determining factor here.
If so, his bones are out there somewhere.
2) Murder and cover up.
This would become a matter of who, why, etc...
of the possibilities mentioned, after this length of time someone would have to come forward. not likely, but it happens.
3) Decided to run away.
Doesn't seem to fit.
4) Abduction
Seems like this would just wind up being murder.

I'm not clear on the stuff about the tires and hub caps. The way I read it was that the old tires from someone else's car were found (could those tires not be traced??) along with the nice hub caps (which is how they correlated them to his car). What I'm not clear on is how long after this day he drove up there was his car found? Was it only 1 day? That's a pretty short time period for someone to stumble on the exact make of vehicle for a tire swap out in the woods. That's too fishy. But I would agree, the tires were ditched by someone local.

I'm leaning towards Murder because of the tires and the short time interval to find the car stripped. Just off the top of my head, this is what I would want to rule out:

1) Wrong place wrong time Murder:
ok we have; possible gangs, bikers, satanic types,
random criminals hiding out in the area, pot growers, and possibly
Winnebago or other Native Americans in the area.
2) Friend of a friend murder.
Ok, is this friend missing or not?
Who did he know? Maybe the "friend" did it.
Maybe a friend of a friend did it.
3) Hunting accident cover up.
Since it was deer hunting season, some idiot, known or not
could have shot him thinking he was a deer and covered it up.
Back then, hunters in wisconsin were only starting to wear orange gear.
A lot of people from Illinois suburban areas would make the short trip to this area to "hunt" once a year. I recall hearing Wisconsin sportsman complain about it and actually hunt much further north because of the dangers. Check the records for annual hunting accidents in this area. But then again, if the tires are connected to the disappearance it does point to someone local. Seems to me you could figure out all vehicles where those tires/rims would fit. And then track the old disposed tires to their eventual owners. For example, if the tires were sold to a gas station in the area it would narrow it down. Ok, it is very baffling that someone would take tires and a battery but not open the glove box. In a hurry? Really dumb? both?

You've succinctly summed up my thoughts exactly. Where the heck is is this Randy dude? This whole thing is fishy beyond the usual fishy. The car found the very next day...hmmm.... This wasn't random, but I think he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Randy is the key. Where is this guy?

 

[rosesfromangels]

BTW - what's a tree stand?

And I still say he had that bow and arrow for protection, not hunting. He went looking for his friend because he (Randy) was in trouble and needed Bob to help him get out of it. (Theory). I believe he lost his life trying to help his friend.

 

[McSpy]

Great post!

I agree, if Randy is still alive, he needs to get involved in this case again. If he is dead, that may close a main door to this case with tragic results. If Randy is found and does not want to talk about Bob, he would likely know that something bad happened to Bob, (accidental death or murder-either instance cover up.)

If I brainstorm, I come up with any of these causes:

1.) They just decide to run away? But the stripped car wouldn't make much sense in this instance.

2.) Accidental Death: Falling into a river, off a cliff or something, where if both Bob and Randy would be in the car, they would have likely died. We don't have the found car AFAIK, near that type of situation.

3)* Bob or both Bob and Randy got involved with a drug deal that went bad and both are dead.

4.)* Bob got involved with a drug deal. It went really bad, and turned fatal, Randy saw what happened and choose to run away because his life was threatened if he told what happened to Bob.

5.) *Randy and Bob picked up a stranded motorist, a hitchhiking situation and both met with foul play. The criminal or criminals hid the bodies and stripped the car.

If Randy is still out there and willing to talk without fear of consequence, it will clear up a lot of things. I'd like to hear and read more interviews from Bob and Randy's parents and family. Key evidence is still missing.

* = most likely possibility.

Satch

The main thing here is where was Randy while Bob was driving up to Baraboo. Was he waiting for Bob at home? If so, then unless he knew Bob's plans to stop somewhere other than the tree stand, he may have nothing to do with the disappearance. I think Randy is still alive. There is a Randall G., who is between the ages of 50-54, living in Baraboo according to the people search sites. JMO

 

[McSpy]

BTW - what's a tree stand?

And I still say he had that bow and arrow for protection, not hunting. He went looking for his friend because he (Randy) was in trouble and needed Bob to help him get out of it. (Theory). I believe he lost his life trying to help his friend.

A tree stand is a small seat up in a tree. Hunters sit in them for hours waiting for a deer to pass by. The newer stands can be removed fairly easily. Some of the very old style stands are made of wood and are nailed into the tree (hand made). They look like a shelf high up a tree trunk. Also, they seat one person and the modern ones are portable.

 

[McSpy]

BTW - what's a tree stand?

And I still say he had that bow and arrow for protection, not hunting. He went looking for his friend because he (Randy) was in trouble and needed Bob to help him get out of it. (Theory). I believe he lost his life trying to help his friend.

Is this just a theory or do you have some evidence? I wish we knew where Randy was while Bob was driving up to Baraboo. It would answer some questions for me.

 

[McSpy]

You've succinctly summed up my thoughts exactly. Where the heck is is this Randy dude? This whole thing is fishy beyond the usual fishy. The car found the very next day...hmmm.... This wasn't random, but I think he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Randy is the key. Where is this guy?

I found a Randall G. in Baraboo from the people search sites.