WI WI - Vernon Co, WhtFem 50-65,261UFWI, severed hands, dentures, May'84

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Hi, I am Shirley's granddaughter and I wrote the blog about her. When I first started my search, I wanted to submit a DNA sample to the FBI's missing persons DNA program when I read about it. I didn't want to ask her children a bunch of questions and get their hopes up or upset them, but detectives wanted info, so I asked my mom. Years ago when we were in California, she thought she had a lead and I still remember the way she cried and hugged my dad when the people we went to visit didn't know anything about her.

I wrote the blog in 2006 when Shirley had been missing for about 37 years. My mom provided a medical receipt with the SS# on it and is pretty positive about her height and weight, but when I see any cases involving Jane Does that are similar at all, I follow it. You just never know in what areas memories will fail after all this time.

Thank you for the time and effort put in to helping find my grandmother. Today I left a message with a detective about an unsolved case from 1976. The description is very close - no teeth, same hair, height very close. She wasn't known for being in that area, but you never know. There is no record of her death in the SS death index, so either she isn't dead or she was never identified.

Today I read about a woman found alive in Florida after being missing for 41 years. Some other remains were mistaken for her and they had a memorial service for her. Sad that the deceased woman was never identified.
 
masnitram said:
There is a photo of Shirley on the blog where she is at least a "human head" taller then the other ladies in the photo. Unless they're all 4'7" or 12 years of age (considering the photo it is safe to say they're not kids)...I'm guessing she is taller then they think. Also consider that the blog really spells out they don't much about her...even though she IS a relative.

I'm having a really busy day so I'm not clear but...check the blog, I believe she was born in Montana....I could be wrong, but that is what is coming to mind.
Click to expand...

Another thing to consider: Is my grandma wearing heels in the picture? No idea. My mom (the bride in the middle) is about 5' 3". My aunt on the very left is quite short. I'm not quite 5'3" and I'm noticeably taller than her. I wonder if measurements change a little with bodies vs. a live person standing.
 
MorningStar said:
Another thing to consider: Is my grandma wearing heels in the picture? No idea. My mom (the bride in the middle) is about 5' 3". My aunt on the very left is quite short. I'm not quite 5'3" and I'm noticeably taller than her. I wonder if measurements change a little with bodies vs. a live person standing.
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Hello MorningStar!

When looking at the photo again, I think your grandma may very well have been wearing heels...but it is hard to say.

Did Vernon County Sheriffs ever contact you? I'm curious to know only because my experience with them hasn't been good regarding this particular case.

Did I previously talk with you, or one of your Aunts?

Either way, all the best to you and your family...
 
Hello! If you are the person I talked to over e-mail, then it would be me and my mom. I think out of all of the children, she has been the most open about this situation. Some of my cousins didn't even know about my grandma abandoning her children. When my grandpa died, my mom and her siblings had a memorial for both of them after years of receiving no answers. When the Internet and DNA technology developed, I started to feel very hopeful that it would be possible to find her. It is really hard for Shirley's children to get their hopes up after being disappointed so many times.

No, I haven't been contacted by Vernon County Sheriffs, but I'll check into that case. Thank you! Once in a while, I'll do a search for "Jane Doe no teeth" and see what comes up (because my grandma's teeth all fell out). That brought up an unsolved case in Mobile County Alabama from 1976 - woman in her mid 50's. It blows my mind how many unidentified remains there are because I know someone was missing that person. My mom thinks it's unlikely she would have left California, but I'll follow anything if the description matches.
 
MorningStar said:
Hello! If you are the person I talked to over e-mail, then it would be me and my mom. I think out of all of the children, she has been the most open about this situation. Some of my cousins didn't even know about my grandma abandoning her children. When my grandpa died, my mom and her siblings had a memorial for both of them after years of receiving no answers. When the Internet and DNA technology developed, I started to feel very hopeful that it would be possible to find her. It is really hard for Shirley's children to get their hopes up after being disappointed so many times.

No, I haven't been contacted by Vernon County Sheriffs, but I'll check into that case. Thank you! Once in a while, I'll do a search for "Jane Doe no teeth" and see what comes up (because my grandma's teeth all fell out). That brought up an unsolved case in Mobile County Alabama from 1976 - woman in her mid 50's. It blows my mind how many unidentified remains there are because I know someone was missing that person. My mom thinks it's unlikely she would have left California, but I'll follow anything if the description matches.
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The article you posted is eerily similar to the Vernon County Jane Doe!

I replied to your PM to let you know exactly what transpired, I appreciate the message :)
 
Thanks! This case sounds possible, especially considering it says her teeth fell out long before her death. My granda's teeth were gone by her 30's. My mom used to think it was from gum disease, but her sister said they were knocked out in the accident that also left the gash in her shin. I'm wondering if the bone itself would show damage from that. The first time I realized she might have suffered a violent death, I didn't even mention that to my mom. I checked on a case in Michigan matching her description where another sicko had cut off the victim's hands. After speaking to the detective, he said some traits didn't match up.
 
In case you wanted to check in with the authorities handling the case:

Vernon County Sheriff's Department
608-637-2124
608-637-2123

Vernon County Coroners Office
608-637-5284

The height is a big concern; all accounts estimate the height to be between
5'4"-5'6"...fyi, I haven't seen a source that states the unidentified was actually measured.
 
Hi...

My daughter is MorningStar and I am Shirley's daughter - the bride in the photo. My mother must have been wearing heels, because I am taller than her.

As for the photo of the deceased that someone sent MorningStar -- it's not of my mother. She was tiny and frail, had a long slender nose, but it was not hooked, and her chin was longer. Mom had slim lips and small ears.

I've never known her to have a perm, because she had naturally wavy hair, and it was slow to gray. I'm the same way at 64.

Also, Mom had her appendix out and a hysterectomy, if that helps. She had a very bad scar on the front of her lower leg, and dentures top and bottom. I believe she wore a size 7 1/2 shoe.

On a personal note: My mom was a wonderful person and I loved her very much, in spite of her bad choices. She was artistic, funny, and was always interested in what was going on in our lives, just not capable of fixing herself. So sad.

Thanks for all that you do.

Penelope
 
pljnw said:
The injury to my mother's left leg was on the outside, below the knee. It is a significant gouge.

http://www.twitpic.com/5n1hx9

This is a photo of her in 1947. She was pregnant with me. :)

Penny
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Penny,

I applaud you and your daughter for your dedication and willingness to share Shirley's (your mothers) story. I'm a bit short on words today, but I hope you and your family remain strong. As I wrote to your daughter MorningStar, don't hesitate to reach out to me anytime.

Best!

Sam
 
pljnw said:
The injury to my mother's left leg was on the outside, below the knee. It is a significant gouge.

http://www.twitpic.com/5n1hx9

This is a photo of her in 1947. She was pregnant with me. :)

Penny
Click to expand...

I think this will be a very helpful picture. Thanks, Mom!

Sam, I spoke to a detective in Vernon County this morning and he said he's going to have the coroner give me a call. Thank you again for your help.
 
Thanks sweetie, and to all who have dedicated so much time here. It would be nice to have closure. Even better, to stand next to her resting place and feel her sweet spirit. She would be embarrassed by all the fuss, but I think she deserves no less. My mother was a genuinely kind and dear woman who made mistakes.
 
chaddylex said:
Morning Star and pljnw,

I hope you find out what happened to your grandma/mom. Your family deserves closure.

Did you ever check www.namus.gov under Unidentified Persons?


Here is the link to the WI Jane Doe from NamUs. It lists no ruleouts.

https://identifyus.org/cases/4786
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Yes, she's set up on NameUs, about a year ago. I posted pics, birth cert, and her signature from a letter. Prob not needed, but can't hurt.


Thank you Chaddylex
 
chaddylex said:
Morning Star and pljnw,

I hope you find out what happened to your grandma/mom. Your family deserves closure.

Did you ever check www.namus.gov under Unidentified Persons?


Here is the link to the WI Jane Doe from NamUs. It lists no ruleouts.

https://identifyus.org/cases/4786
Click to expand...


This WI Jane Doe had plaque on her teeth. It states she never had bottom teeth in life, so we can assume she had the top ones since there was plaque reported. Shirley got full dentures in 1945.

My mother was tiny boned and frail. She never weighed more than 130 lbs. I am 63" tall and eventually passed Mom in height. Jane Doe is listed at 65".

I find it highly inlikely that this woman is my mother.

Thanks Chaddylex
 
pljnw said:
This WI Jane Doe had plaque on her teeth. It states she never had bottom teeth in life, so we can assume she had the top ones since there was plaque reported. Shirley got full dentures in 1945.

My mother was tiny boned and frail. She never weighed more than 130 lbs. I am 63" tall and eventually passed Mom in height. Jane Doe is listed at 65".

I find it highly inlikely that this woman is my mother.

Thanks Chaddylex
Click to expand...

The description is confusing. Under "dental", boxes are checked showing she had no upper teeth and no lower teeth. Did they mean plaque on her dentures?
 
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