Witness accounts

[Phoenixfla]

Are you that sure Crump will never be called as a witness? He just might due to HIS interviewing the cellphone witness, when SPD failed to do that..his account of his conversation with that witness might provide the truth behind what she heard unfold in her ears..

Wouldn't they just put the witness on the stand instead of Crump?


<modsnip>

 

[LambChop]

I'm the last person to question anyone's opinion. Everyone has that right, correct, to have an opinion, whatever their 'forum title' shows?

I think the forum title shows "Witness Statements" so, again, we are being drawn off topic. lol

 

[Just K]

Cityslick, I understand your point but there comes a time where people, even the most open-minded, will take the data that is available and then make an educated guess. In this case, many people see GZ as a fraud, a wanna be this and a wanna b that, someone who, through his own words and deeds seems to never take responsibility for the consequences of his actions. It is VERY hard to give GZ the benefit of the doubt and for many of us this is because of GZ's actions, before, during and after the shooting. Simply that and not the words of any talking heads, any revelers, etc...just basing an educated guess on the actions of the subject.

GZ's "friends" and family have not helped, either.

 

[Lovelymountains]

I'm sure everone knows the old story abut the three blind men and the elephant. Eyewitness testimony, however well meant, is often contradictory. But. facts are facts regardless. I believe that the evidence shows that GZ profiled TM as a young black with no legitimate business in "His" community and went after him. Thereafter, numerous witnesses saw bits and pieces of it, but no one saw the whole thing. The most important part, who started it, seems to have no witnesses at all so prosecution must go on the circumstances. Circumstantial evidence, despite what many think, is evidence which is as good as any other and often better than eyewitness testimony. Most cases are tried on circumstantial evidence since few murders have actual witnesses. I think I'm correct in believing that no witness has claimed to have seen the actual gunshot. Many heard it, but did anyone actually claim to have seen GZ shoot Traymon? Many saw TM dead on the ground, but have any claimed to have seen him fall? To me, circumstances clearly indicate that GZ followed TM with the intent to detain him until the police got there, but TM would not be detained, so GZ shot him. I understand others might see it a different way, with the same clarity which I claim. So we disagree. But with the best of intentions. IMO

 

[beach]

Topic of this thread is Witness accounts.

Drop the discussion about personal remarks directed toward others.

 

[cityslick]

Cityslick, I understand your point but there comes a time where people, even the most open-minded, will take the data that is available and then make an educated guess. In this case, many people see GZ as a fraud, a wanna be this and a wanna b that, someone who, through his own words and deeds seems to never take responsibility for the consequences of his actions. It is VERY hard to give GZ the benefit of the doubt and for many of us this is because of GZ's actions, before, during and after the shooting. Simply that and not the words of any talking heads, any revelers, etc...just basing an educated guess on the actions of the subject.

GZ's "friends" and family have not helped, either.

I disagree. I don't see him as that. I don't know enough about GZ or the events of that night to say for certain who he is and is not. I don't pretend to know someone by what I watch on tv or snippets of one's life I read on the internet.

Folks want to judge things on face value, fine. I don't do that. I never have. Call it flawed logic. Call it naive. In my world, every human being who commits a crime is not necessarily a monster, just like every human being who has never done anything bad is 'perfect'.

 

[Lovelymountains]

<modsnip>

Could be, some adults are treated like that as well. I personally think everyone should be treated and thought of as innocent until all facts and evidence come forth but I'm apparently in the minority on that one.

It appears that GZ is actually being treated as innocent by the law. He is not under arrest, he apparently has left the state, and he was granted bail. What we say on this forum has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of his trial nor does it determine guilt or innocence. What a court of law determines is the important factor. None of us will be on his jury. We are merely stating our opinions on what we believe the evidence to show, but we don't have all the evidence and we have no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome. I don't expect to have any dealings with Mr. Zimmerman so I don't expect to treat him in any way at all. IMO

 

[cityslick]

It appears that GZ is actually being treated as innocent by the law. He is not under arrest, he apparently has left the state, and he was granted bail. What we say on this forum has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of his trial nor does it determine guilt or innocence. What a court of law determines is the important factor. None of us will be on his jury. We are merely stating our opinions on what we believe the evidence to show, but we don't have all the evidence and we have no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome. I don't expect to have any dealings with Mr. Zimmerman so I don't expect to treat him in any way at all. IMO

The thinking that goes on a forum such as this is not limited to the forum. It's in our society. We are a point first, ask questions later society and if you don't believe that, I encourage you to watch the news some days and listen and hear the comments of the public. Those same people will be on a jury someday.

 

[Just K]

GZ is the number one witness and the only true witness, that we know of, to the entire event. It is possible that someone did see the whole part from the Questions/confrontation through the shot fired. We shall see if that witness exists and what they are willing to say.

IMO, the person who took the picture and was asked to call GZ's wife saw the most. But that does not mean that this witness is innocent of some involvement or that his account is unbiased.

The one question, in my mind, that continues to beg for an explanation is: Who in their right mind would approach a man with a gun and even think to take a picture of his barely injured head while a young kid lies dying in the grass?

The only answer that comes to mind: Someone that is a friend and/or possibly even someone who believed they were assisting their NW volunteer to detain another "@$$hole."

 

[LambChop]

The thinking that goes on a forum such as this is not limited to the forum. It's in our society. We are a point first, ask questions later society and if you don't believe that, I encourage you to watch the news some days and listen and hear the comments of the public. Those same people will be on a jury someday.

Jurors are not expected to live like Monks away from media influences. All they are asked to do is to listen to the evidence that is presented in court with an open mind. Even if you have already formed an opinion, which most people have, as long as you can agree to listen to the evidence from both sides and use that as your basis for determining if the person is innocent or guilty than you will more than likely end up on a jury. Even defense attorneys don't want clueless jurors. jmo

 

[cityslick]

GZ is the number one witness and the only true witness, that we know of, to the entire event. It is possible that someone did see the whole part from the Questions/confrontation through the shot fired. We shall see if that witness exists and what they are willing to say.

IMO, the person who took the picture and was asked to call GZ's wife saw the most. But that does not mean that this witness is innocent of some involvement or that his account is unbiased.

The one question, in my mind, that continues to beg for an explanation is: Who in their right mind would approach a man with a gun and even think to take a picture of his barely injured head while a young kid lies dying in the grass?

The only answer that comes to mind: Someone that is a friend and/or possibly even someone who believed they were assisting their NW volunteer to detain another "@$$hole."

BBM

That may very well be the case. Perhaps whoever took the picture has the same frame of mind as GZ had, that someone you don't know is always a potential threat. Wasn't there an article that suggested a majority of that subdivision seemed to be on GZ's side?

 

[cityslick]

Jurors are not expected to live like Monks away from media influences. All they are asked to do is to listen to the evidence that is presented in court with an open mind. Even if you have already formed an opinion, which most people have, as long as you can agree to listen to the evidence from both sides and use that as your basis for determining if the person is innocent or guilty than you will more than likely end up on a jury. Even defense attorneys don't want clueless jurors. jmo

Ah, but the first question they ask a juror is 'have you formed an opinion' and the answer is supposed to be 'no'. I guess everyone lies to that question then?

 

[LambChop]

GZ is the number one witness and the only true witness, that we know of, to the entire event. It is possible that someone did see the whole part from the Questions/confrontation through the shot fired. We shall see if that witness exists and what they are willing to say.

IMO, the person who took the picture and was asked to call GZ's wife saw the most. But that does not mean that this witness is innocent of some involvement or that his account is unbiased.

The one question, in my mind, that continues to beg for an explanation is: Who in their right mind would approach a man with a gun and even think to take a picture of his barely injured head while a young kid lies dying in the grass?

The only answer that comes to mind: Someone that is a friend and/or possibly even someone who believed they were assisting their NW volunteer to detain another "@$$hole."

It would be interesting, too, if GZ was on the phone right before the shooting and who he was talking to. If it were a neighbor who had a "better" view of the clubhouse area than GZ then it's not a stretch to figure out who he was talking to and IMO that neighbor was right there after the shooting. Also, it would be interesting to see if when GZ sounds distracted on the phone towards the end of his call with LE, was it another incoming call he was receiving???? If MOM tries to have those records sealed, we will have our answer. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Ah, but the first question they ask a juror is 'have you formed an opinion' and the answer is supposed to be 'no'. I guess everyone lies to that question then?

That is why it is done in front of a judge. SA and defense pick juries all the time and they usually have no problems picking up who is lying and who is not. I think you will have more "YES" answers with this case than you would ever get an answer of "no" from a potential juror. jmo

 

[grammieto5]

I would hope that her parents would've told her "we know that your friend is dead now, you NEED to call the police and tell them what you heard!"

But we don't know what her parents let her do. I know if it were me I would keep her protected from the media, I would not have let her go on TV. I can't believe the parents of the 13 year old child walking his dog let his face be shown. After the thruth of what happened to Trayvon while she was talking to him was made public, knowing she was the last person to speak with him, I also would have gotten a lawyer.

 

[LambChop]

But we don't know what her parents let her do. I know if it were me I would keep her protected from the media, I would not have let her go on TV. I can't believe the parents of the 13 year old child walking his dog let his face be shown. After the thruth of what happened to Trayvon while she was talking to him was made public, knowing she was the last person to speak with him, I also would have gotten a lawyer.

Plus it was reported that the parents did try to get ahold of SPD and their call was not returned and they then decided to keep her out of it. With SPD's reputation can you blame them??? jmo

 

[grammieto5]

T-I-C - members of congress made fools of themselves. The point was, many were hoodwinked by the hype. They went on an on about how TM was murdered for walking black....as if it were fact because Crump told them so. Witnesses were, IMO, swayed the same way judging by their changing stories.

I'm not sure what T-I-C means I know I'm going off topic here but, my point was, you are saying negative things about the wrong group, that's all

 

[rossva]

BBM Some of us do live in Seminole/ Brevard County and could be on the jury. Anything's possible.

It appears that GZ is actually being treated as innocent by the law. He is not under arrest, he apparently has left the state, and he was granted bail. What we say on this forum has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of his trial nor does it determine guilt or innocence. What a court of law determines is the important factor. None of us will be on his jury. We are merely stating our opinions on what we believe the evidence to show, but we don't have all the evidence and we have no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome. I don't expect to have any dealings with Mr. Zimmerman so I don't expect to treat him in any way at all. IMO

 

[LambChop]

BBM Some of us do live in Seminole/ Brevard County and could be on the jury. Anything's possible.

If you are on a forum about this case, you are disqualified. It means you show more than normal interest in the case. Neither side would want us. jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

But we don't know what her parents let her do. I know if it were me I would keep her protected from the media, I would not have let her go on TV. I can't believe the parents of the 13 year old child walking his dog let his face be shown. After the thruth of what happened to Trayvon while she was talking to him was made public, knowing she was the last person to speak with him, I also would have gotten a lawyer.

I'm thinking we have two witness accounts running together here. The girlfriend was the last to speak with him, not the 13 year old boy. The girlfriend's mother didn't lawyer up as far as I know, the 13 year old boy's mother did. The girlfriend didn't go on tv (her recorded statements were given - I don't believe she was actually interviewed so I discount that), the 13 year old boy did, twice with differing stories in each.

Edit: My statement to you was about the girlfriend and not giving a statement. I simply stated that her parents should have encouraged her to give a statement starting the next day - when they found out Mr. Martin was deceased.