Witness accounts

[AJ Noiter]

you don't think it's important that Ms.Fulton heard the screams of her son dying??????

I do not believe it's important that she believes it was her son, no, not as "evidence." I've mentioned this a number of other places but she did not go in to hear the recording thinking her son was alive. She knew that her son was dead and subconsciously one fact probably "linked" with another. The same thing would probably happen if you took the same exact tape to my mother, told her I was shot to death and played the tape. I'm not saying she's lying, I do believe that she feels that it was her son screaming, but just because she believes it doesn't make it true.

Also, Mrs. Zimmerman has stated that the voice is George Zimmerman's, so they cancel each other out anyway. I feel the same way about her statement - for "evidence" it's not really that great.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Did you follow Frank Taaffe's multi-interviews on every TV network he could get himself onto?

Taaffe stated George often did his big "WATCH DUTY" alone OR with his big scary Rottweiler dog.

Even Francis Taaffe readily admitted George absolutely DID patrol the neighborhood WITH his trusty handgun tucked in his britches -- totally against NW manual rules.

George of course did not follow a NW patrolling schedule. George did exactly what George wanted to do - when he wanted to do it. He doesn't suffer rules!

George loved his self-appointed important title of Neighborhood Watch Captain. The true fact is, George was never anything more important than a PROFILING VIGILANTE.

Whether George was doing VIGILANTE duty or NW WATCH duty is of little difference. Either way, it's still illegal to follow/pursue and confront an unarmed kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong -- and almost instantly MURDER him! _ :maddening:

imo, and millions of others

I have not read or watched a single word that man has stated, so I can't speak on it directly, but from what you're quasi-quoting it sounds to me like Mr. Zimmerman walked his dog while carrying his weapon. Nothing strange there, I do it all the time.

Did he state that Mr. Zimmerman "patrolled" alone? If so then we have two clues that point at Mr. Zimmerman not "patrolling" at all. The other would be that there wasn't a scheduled patrol. Read the manual, not what ABC reports, the actual Neighborhood Watch Manual and it will tell you exactly what patrolling is.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I have not read or watched a single word that man has stated, so I can't speak on it directly, but from what you're quasi-quoting it sounds to me like Mr. Zimmerman walked his dog while carrying his weapon. Nothing strange there, I do it all the time.

Did he state that Mr. Zimmerman "patrolled" alone? If so then we have two clues that point at Mr. Zimmerman not "patrolling" at all. The other would be that there wasn't a scheduled patrol. Read the manual, not what ABC reports, the actual Neighborhood Watch Manual and it will tell you exactly what patrolling is.

bbm

The Retreat at Twin Lakes community's Neighborhood Watch was NOT a registered member of the respected "National Neighborhood Watch," which ABC referred to.

It sounds to me that George as the CAPTAIN of HIS Neighborhood Watch made up his own rules which were still clearly against the Twin Lakes Retreat Rules which the Sanford PD helped to setup -- with Zimmerman's urging and enthusiasm.

Again, under ANY circumstances, it is still against the law to follow/pursue and confront an unarmed kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong -- and almost instantly shoot him dead.

imo

 

[AJ Noiter]

bbm

The Retreat at Twin Lakes community's Neighborhood Watch was NOT a registered member of the respected "National Neighborhood Watch," which ABC referred to.

It sounds to me that George as the CAPTAIN of HIS Neighborhood Watch made up his own rules which were still clearly against the Twin Lakes Retreat Rules which the Sanford PD helped to setup -- with Zimmerman's urging and enthusiasm.

Again, under ANY circumstances, it is still against the law to follow/pursue and confront an unarmed kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong -- and almost instantly shoot him dead.

imo

Oh, good to know that ABC, which is what you were quoting to me, was wrong. So there is no guideline about not carrying a firearm? No guideline about not following someone, etc? Seems if Mr. Zimmerman made up the rules then he probably wouldn't be breaking them.

Bold: Actually, it's not. Freedom of movement protects your right to move around as you please as long as you're in a location that you are authorized to be. Freedom of speech protects your right to ask someone a question, no matter the tone, and the other individual has the absolute right to ignore your inquiry - though no one is sure on who confronted who.

From the girlfriend's account it sounds to me as if Mr. Martin was the one doing the confronting. But that is my opinion.

To state that he "almost instantly" shot him is to ignore all sides of this matter. Nearly 1 minute of "scuffling" isn't "almost instantly" - a LOT can happen in 55 seconds.

 

[lisalei321]

From the actual Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch Handbook

:bump:

 

[claudicici]

Oh, good to know that ABC, which is what you were quoting to me, was wrong. So there is no guideline about not carrying a firearm? No guideline about not following someone, etc? Seems if Mr. Zimmerman made up the rules then he probably wouldn't be breaking them.

Bold: Actually, it's not. Freedom of movement protects your right to move around as you please as long as you're in a location that you are authorized to be. Freedom of speech protects your right to ask someone a question, no matter the tone, and the other individual has the absolute right to ignore your inquiry - though no one is sure on who confronted who.

From the girlfriend's account it sounds to me as if Mr. Martin was the one doing the confronting. But that is my opinion.

To state that he "almost instantly" shot him is to ignore all sides of this matter. Nearly 1 minute of "scuffling" isn't "almost instantly" - a LOT can happen in 55 seconds.

I don't know who's girlfriend's account you're referring to cos it's definitely not
Trayvon's.Her account clearly shows George was confronting Trayvon.
If you haven't listened to George's appointed spokesman Frank before maybe you should.He brings a lot of insight into how George likes to walk around with his 100lbs Rottweiler and 9mm profiling black guys.Here's a sound bite

http://youtu.be/fl94hVqC1iY

 

[Just K]

If I knew my neighbor was out skulking around with his hundred pound Roti and packing a semi-automatic weapon with hollow point ammunition, I would never go out alone but I would become the eyes and ears of my community...watching him and reporting anything "suspicious" that I thought he might be doing...especially if he looked like he might be "on drugs or something."

Personally, I don't want this guy within 100 yards of my dwelling and if he even so much as stepped a baby toe on my property I would call the police.

 

[AJ Noiter]

I don't know who's girlfriend's account you're referring to cos it's definitely not
Trayvon's.Her account clearly shows George was confronting Trayvon.
If you haven't listened to George's appointed spokesman Frank before maybe you should.He brings a lot of insight into how George likes to walk around with his 100lbs Rottweiler and 9mm profiling black guys.Here's a sound bite

http://youtu.be/fl94hVqC1iY

con·front
verb /kənˈfrənt/ 

1 Meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent
2 Face up to and deal with (a problem or difficult situation)
3 Compel (someone) to face or consider something, esp. by way of accusation
4 Present itself to (someone) so that dealing with it cannot be avoided
5 Appear or be placed in front of (someone) so as to unsettle or threaten

Based on the definition I'd have to say Mr. Martin asking Mr. Zimmerman the first question very well could show who started the confrontation. It doesn't say anything about who assaulted who.

Why should I listen to his neighbor/friend/whatever he is? He has no relevance to this case other than a 2nd hand account of what happened that night, and we know that second hand accounts can't be wrong, right? Or can the 2nd hand accounts only have misunderstandings for Mr. Martin's side? Either way, he's getting his "15 minutes of fame" and people are eating up every word he says and basing accusations on it. It's silly, in my opinion. Who cares if Mr. Zimmerman likes to walk his dog while carrying his 9mm? I do too!

 

[Mendara]

I have a question. I am new to this forum and have not really read through it. Do we know what GZ said to Trayvon when he made contact with him? I know the dispatcher told him NOT to follow him and he still did, but do we know what was said on first contact? I would imagine if it were something like excuse me.... it would not have lead to what happened. Was it more like "HEY WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING INT HIS NEIGHBORHOOD!"

 

[AJ Noiter]

I have a question. I am new to this forum and have not really read through it. Do we know what GZ said to Trayvon when he made contact with him? I know the dispatcher told him NOT to follow him and he still did, but do we know what was said on first contact? I would imagine if it were something like excuse me.... it would not have lead to what happened. Was it more like "HEY WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING INT HIS NEIGHBORHOOD!"

According to the girlfriend it went like this:
Martin: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?
Martin: Why are you following me?

Somewhere in that second asking of the question something happened, but no one (including the girlfriend) knows what exactly that was.

 

[LambChop]

According to the girlfriend it went like this:
Martin: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?
Martin: Why are you following me?

Somewhere in that second asking of the question something happened, but no one (including the girlfriend) knows what exactly that was.

Okay, I never read that. What I remember is after the question of what are you doing here there was a scuffling sound and the phone went dead. jmo

 

[vlpate]

The manual, from the National Neighborhood Watch Program, states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.

Twin Lakes was not part of, nor were they registered with the National Neighborhood Watch program.

They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."[/I][/COLOR]

He was not a NWC 24/7. There were no scheduled patrols. This organization, put together by the SPD, can not dictate what a person does in their private life, only the time they are acting in the capacity of the NWC.

The neighborhood watch at "The Retreat At Twin Lakes," setup by Sanford PD also stressed "NO Guns" and "NO following" -- rules that definitely WERE stated in the well known written rules/guidelines/instructions.

This was allegedly said during the one and only meeting held at the community by an SPD representative.

They were also discussed many times during neighborhood watch meetings.

There was one meeting.

A "NO Guns" poster was displayed - big, bold and in plain sight on the clubhouse bulletin board where "neighborhood watch" meetings were held.

Do you have a source for this??

 

[vlpate]

I don't know who's girlfriend's account you're referring to cos it's definitely not
Trayvon's.Her account clearly shows George was confronting Trayvon."
GZ's account of what TM said was "Do you have a *advertiser censored*& problem", to which GZ answered, "no". That would definitely be confronting someone. If GZ's version is true, it is more realistic that TM would throw the first (and apparently, many subsequent), punch.
"If you haven't listened to George's appointed spokesman Frank before maybe you should.He brings a lot of insight into how George likes to walk around with his 100lbs Rottweiler and 9mm profiling black guys.Here's a sound bite
http://youtu.be/fl94hVqC1iY

This video is titled "Frank Taaffe admits George Zimmerman was racial profiling", which is typically misleading, incorrect grammar, and not the title given by the show.

FT will be called as a witness, and if he testifies to the fact that GZ walks his dog, which is required of a dog owner without a yard, or that he carried his concealed weapon while doing so, his right as a licensed citizen of Florida will be quickly pointed out. There's nothing there to disparage GZ's character or intent. To say he was racially profiling would be incorrect and would be easily disproved by the burglary reports and the history of crime on the property.

 

[LambChop]

This video is titled "Frank Taaffe admits George Zimmerman was racial profiling", which is typically misleading, incorrect grammar, and not the title given by the show.

FT will be called as a witness, and if he testifies to the fact that GZ walks his dog, which is required of a dog owner without a yard, or that he carried his concealed weapon while doing so, his right as a licensed citizen of Florida will be quickly pointed out. There's nothing there to disparage GZ's character or intent. To say he was racially profiling would be incorrect and would be easily disproved by the burglary reports and the history of crime on the property.

This may be correct when you consider information we have available to us today but it is possible the investigators have more because they are the one's that went house to house. Gilbreath said GZ was profiling and part of that profile was the TM was black. jmo

 

[who]

Twin Lakes was not part of, nor were they registered with the National Neighborhood Watch program.

He was not a NWC 24/7. There were no scheduled patrols. This organization, put together by the SPD, can not dictate what a person does in their private life, only the time they are acting in the capacity of the NWC.

This was allegedly said during the one and only meeting held at the community by an SPD representative.

There was one meeting.

...

BBM

1. Doesn't matter. The SPD set up the NW program with them.
2. There was more than one meeting. I count at least SIX.

Twin Lakes at Retreat news letter -Sept 2011:
George Zimmerman's name listed as contact & that Chief Lee was coming to next meeting: RTL Newsletter September 2011 FINAL

Feb 2012 Twin Lakes at Retreat news letter - George Zimmerman identified as Captain: RTL February 2012 Newsletter

 

[RANCH]

BBM

1. Doesn't matter. The SPD set up the NW program with them.
2. There was more than one meeting. I count at least SIX.

Twin Lakes at Retreat news letter -Sept 2011:
George Zimmerman's name listed as contact & that Chief Lee was coming to next meeting: RTL Newsletter September 2011 FINAL

Feb 2012 Twin Lakes at Retreat news letter - George Zimmerman identified as Captain: RTL February 2012 Newsletter

BBM
Take a look at the Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch Program Handbook. I can't find anywhere in it saying "Do not carry a weapon".

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf

 

[who]

BBM
Take a look at the Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch Program Handbook. I can't find anywhere in it saying "Do not carry a weapon".

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf

That came from here:


Quote:
In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.

"Some residents called me wanting to do a startup," said Dorival, a civilian police employee. About 30 people came to the clubhouse for that first session, she said. "Everyone was enthusiastic." Zimmerman volunteered to be captain.

"I told them, this is not about being a vigilante police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."

Trayvon Martin's killing shatters safety within Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford - Tampa Bay Times

and this:

"Wendy Dorival is Sanford's volunteer coordinator for the Police Department. She helped train Zimmerman. She stated that those involved in neighborhood-watch programs are supposed to be "the eyes and ears" for the police, "not a vigilante.” Specifically, she said, members "are not supposed to confront anyone. We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle." She added that carrying and using a gun on patrol violates protocols. "

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/20/2012/4535

 

[RANCH]

That came from here:


Quote:
In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.

"Some residents called me wanting to do a startup," said Dorival, a civilian police employee. About 30 people came to the clubhouse for that first session, she said. "Everyone was enthusiastic." Zimmerman volunteered to be captain.

"I told them, this is not about being a vigilante police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."

Trayvon Martin's killing shatters safety within Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford - Tampa Bay Times

and this:

"Wendy Dorival is Sanford's volunteer coordinator for the Police Department. She helped train Zimmerman. She stated that those involved in neighborhood-watch programs are supposed to be "the eyes and ears" for the police, "not a vigilante.” Specifically, she said, members "are not supposed to confront anyone. We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle." She added that carrying and using a gun on patrol violates protocols. "

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/20/2012/4535

Thanks. Yes, I've seen that before. I wonder why they don't have that same warning about guns in their handbook?

 

[Emma Peel]

This video is titled "Frank Taaffe admits George Zimmerman was racial profiling", which is typically misleading, incorrect grammar, and not the title given by the show.

FT will be called as a witness, and if he testifies to the fact that GZ walks his dog, which is required of a dog owner without a yard, or that he carried his concealed weapon while doing so, his right as a licensed citizen of Florida will be quickly pointed out. There's nothing there to disparage GZ's character or intent. To say he was racially profiling would be incorrect and would be easily disproved by the burglary reports and the history of crime on the property.

Is this an opinion, or ... perhaps just a fantasy?

GZ was absolutely profiling. To say he was not profiling is is incorrect. IMO.

I can agree that the fact that GZ believed Trayvon to match a descriptions of those believed to have committed recent burglaries says nothing disparaging about GZ's character. If previous records show burglaries were committed by black teens wearing hoodies - once can argue that the suspect's youth and dress and skin color was simply part of the burglary profiling.

It's what GZ actually decided to DO after profiling Trayvon, the pursuit, and the aggressive action GZ took, that is greatly "disparaging" of his character. Or if you will - that's what makes GZ, here, to appear to be an irresponsible killer. To the tune of a 2nd degree murder charge, frankly. There's not a whole lot of character other than fear, hatred, and exceedingly poor judgment in that sort of behavior.

:cow:

 

[AJ Noiter]

Is this an opinion, or ... perhaps just a fantasy?

GZ was absolutely profiling. To say he was not profiling is is incorrect. IMO.

I can agree that the fact that GZ believed Trayvon to match a descriptions of those believed to have committed recent burglaries says nothing disparaging about GZ's character. If previous records show burglaries were committed by black teens wearing hoodies - once can argue that the suspect's youth and dress and skin color was simply part of the burglary profiling.

It's what GZ actually decided to DO after profiling Trayvon, the pursuit, and the aggressive action GZ took, that is greatly "disparaging" of his character. Or if you will - that's what makes GZ, here, to appear to be an irresponsible killer. To the tune of a 2nd degree murder charge, frankly. There's not a whole lot of character other than fear, hatred, and exceedingly poor judgment in that sort of behavior.

:cow:

I believe the key word in what vlpate was saying is the word "racial" in the term "racial profiling." No one, that I'm aware of, says that he wasn't profiling - he certainly was - but I doubt he was racially profiling.