Witness accounts

[Just K]

This case involves some pretty scary issues, LE misconduct, Racism/Bigotry, a scary guy free in society who knows where everyone of the witnesses live, LE , some of whose jobs are on the line, know where people live, The Justice Department Investigation, The SYG Law, the gun lobby, and all kinds of real threats to witnesses who may not support some of those powerful people and entities.

This case has opened these witnesses up to all kinds of things that most of us would not welcome into our lives.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

In a statement to police the night of the shooting, witness 6 said he saw two men wrestling on the ground. He said he saw a man matching Martin's description on top, punching Zimmerman on the ground.

"The one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style," witness 6 told Sanford police within hours of the shooting.

................................................................................. to

W6: Did not hear a punch sound.
SAO: Did ever hear a sound like a head or another part of a body hitting concrete hard where it made a noise?
W6: No, I did not.
SAO: Did you hear it at all, like any...?
W6: Just the struggle sound.

Witness 6 went on to say, "I can't truly see how close they were to each other; if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until cops got there."


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Wi...ath/-/1637132/13475090/-/15bcvf6/-/index.html

 

[Karmady]

And once you begin to see what being the "star witness" really means, one might want to distance himself from such a Nationally and Locally High Profile Case.

I'm not sure we would agree on what being the star witness "really means," but I agree with the general sentiment. Imo, it's very unfortunate and linked directly to the immensely prejudicial involvement of Crump, if not one of his primary goals.

 

[m00c0w]

In a statement to police the night of the shooting, witness 6 said he saw two men wrestling on the ground. He said he saw a man matching Martin's description on top, punching Zimmerman on the ground.

"The one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style," witness 6 told Sanford police within hours of the shooting.

................................................................................. to

W6: Did not hear a punch sound.
SAO: Did ever hear a sound like a head or another part of a body hitting concrete hard where it made a noise?
W6: No, I did not.
SAO: Did you hear it at all, like any...?
W6: Just the struggle sound.

Witness 6 went on to say, "I can't truly see how close they were to each other; if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until cops got there."


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Wi...ath/-/1637132/13475090/-/15bcvf6/-/index.html

Sounds like he's afraid of a bounty being put on his head.

 

[jjenny]

No one used the word coerced..."suggestions, suggested, are you sures and other leading questions" would be more accurate terms

I think these witnesses are possibly talking to each other and watching the news, if the witness who had no idea who was on top or the bottom is now sure it was Zimmerman on top because of size. But that was old Zimmerman from years ago. Zimmerman now is not heavy. He is also short.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

From what the state said at the Bond hearing they probably don't need any witnesses, they have Georges statement, the body and where it was at and the bullet casing.

 

[AJ Noiter]

I think the mother said that the young man tried to tell the officers he did could not see a color but the officer insisted he give them a color such as if you had to say a color which one would you choose? I'm guessing in the interview he is just repeating what he believed was true. This mother was not the only witness that claim LE was leading with their questions to get the right answers.

The words that I read, said that he never changed his story when the police were questioning him and that he insisted he couldn't tell any of the colors.

Once they did, Brown alleged, police tried to lead her son to agree to certain assertions, such as the race of the person on the ground and what he was wearing. But the boy stuck to his insistence that he couldn't make out either because it was too dark.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense?lite

Note: This source is the source that someone pointed to me at this forum.

How do you "stick to your insistence" .. yet not?


So, now, he never changed his story, except on camera, and then he changed it again after that camera went away. Would you agree that it's odd?

 

[magnolia]

In a statement to police the night of the shooting, witness 6 said he saw two men wrestling on the ground. He said he saw a man matching Martin's description on top, punching Zimmerman on the ground.

"The one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style," witness 6 told Sanford police within hours of the shooting.

................................................................................. to

W6: Did not hear a punch sound.
SAO: Did ever hear a sound like a head or another part of a body hitting concrete hard where it made a noise?
W6: No, I did not.
SAO: Did you hear it at all, like any...?
W6: Just the struggle sound.

Witness 6 went on to say, "I can't truly see how close they were to each other; if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until cops got there."


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Witnesses-shed-light-into-Trayvon-Martin-death/-/1637132/13475090/-/15bcvf6/-/index.html

You left out an important part of the story.

In re-telling his story, he remained consistent by saying Martin was on top, in control, and had the advantage, but now, he wasn't sure if Martin was the aggressor.

 

[Just K]

Just a reminder, those of us who do not have cable or listen to or try not to read op-ed pieces or watch those types of videos are not familiar with Crump. I have only heard him speak one time. I avoid all opinions except here

 

[jjenny]

The words that I read, said that he never changed his story when the police were questioning him and that he insisted he couldn't tell any of the colors.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense?lite

Note: This source is the source that someone pointed to me at this forum.

How do you "stick to your insistence" .. yet not?


So, now, he never changed his story, except on camera, and then he changed it again after that camera went away. Would you agree that it's odd?

I don't know how he stuck to it either, since he said it was red when interviewed by a reporter.

 

[Karmady]

Sounds like he's afraid of a bounty being put on his head.

Imo, there's obviously something going on there. That's a pretty specific statement regarding MMA. Not sure how anyone could get from that to not sure if Trayvon couldn't have been just holding George down. Is John's current statement part of the witness audio files? I haven't listened to it. Just saw statements about what it said it here and in the msm links.

 

[LambChop]

Or Martin running ahead to hide in a position by which he could assault Zimmerman. JMO IMO MOO

If TM wanted to assault GZ he had the perfect opportunity when GZ had his back to him walking down the cut through to the next street. And GZ was still on his phone talking to LE while he was walking back to his car according to the timeline and GZ's statement. In one of the family statements they said GZ made it back to his car. This is also supported by the gf's description about what happened when GZ found TM. So how would TM know GZ would be coming back? That's pretty good planning on TM's part, don't you think???? We know TM was hiding because she said TM told her GZ "found" him. These young thugs today are so clever, are they not? jmo

 

[persnickety]

Man Ben Crump must have some amazing powers if he is able to get all of these witnesses to change their stories,

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You left out an important part of the story.

In re-telling his story, he remained consistent by saying Martin was on top, in control, and had the advantage, but now, he wasn't sure if Martin was the aggressor.

I see that written but does that make sense to you? How can he say Martin was on top when he says he can't say how close they were?

 

[Just K]

From what the state said at the Bond hearing they probably don't need any witnesses, they have Georges statement, the body and where it was at and the bullet casing.

And, where evidence was found at the crime scene. It shows that this was a moving altercation...whether anyone can say it was moving or not...and even "J's" wife/SO says that it was moving in some direction that seemed to come toward their place and of course we know it did.

TM is dead and his body was nowhere near where the evidence lay in the grass.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Imo, there's obviously something going on there. That's a pretty specific statement regarding MMA. Not sure how anyone could get from that to not sure if Trayvon couldn't have been just holding George down. Is John's current statement part of the witness audio files? I haven't listened to it. Just saw statements about what it said it here and in the msm links.

I have not heard the tape where he talks about the MMA and ground and pound and just caught a snippet of it on youtube. It sounded like the detective and witness were worked up describing it. I can not listen to the one on NYT for some reason. Does it sound like the detective is leading him?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

MO'M will have a field day with these witnesses at trial IMO.

 

[Sherbie]

I would be terrified to be an eyewitness (or ear-witness) whose testimony would support either side in this case due to the crazies out there. While I can see perhaps clarifying something in a subsequent interview, I'd like to think I wouldn't back off my original statement or change it completely. Of course, I've never been in that situation or felt the fear they may be feeling for themselves and their families.

IF that's a reason for any of their changed accounts, it's a shame that they have to be fearful of a backlash for telling the truth.

 

[LambChop]

The words that I read, said that he never changed his story when the police were questioning him and that he insisted he couldn't tell any of the colors.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense?lite

Note: This source is the source that someone pointed to me at this forum.

How do you "stick to your insistence" .. yet not?


So, now, he never changed his story, except on camera, and then he changed it again after that camera went away. Would you agree that it's odd?

I would say the mother should have had enough sense not to let her son give a statement to the news. It proves the point that when an authority figure puts pressure on you to give a statement a certain way some people buy into it.

Witness statements were important. Had LE let them tell their story and sorted them out later they may have had something they could have pieced together to figure out what happened. Most of their statements are not unreliable, IMO. jmo

 

[Karmady]

Man Ben Crump must have some amazing powers if he is able to get all of these witnesses to change their stories,

He does have an amazing ability to race-bait and inflame the general public, as well as the special interests. Imo, he is particularly good at it because he is not at all constrained by truth or conscience, and his end goal is the greatest motivator of all to many people. So, while I don't think he personally convinced the witnesses to change their stories, certainly the climate he has actively and intentionally created would do the trick. Heck, if people are talking about the Judge possibly punting due to fear of reprisal (and they are, at least in my circle), how can we expect more from a witness. jmo