Would you lie in court to save your child? CLOSED FOR REVIEW

[LCoastMom]

Hi LCM. No, it doesn't. And you could argue, as I have done before, that it isn't an accident if you chose to do what caused the 'accident'. I guess my thinking here is that there is something very different from the people who are predators and cause terror and pain to their victims prior to killing them with purpose, and the people who commit selfish acts that although they do cause death wasn't intended to. Which one deserves to be put to death for their actions? In some places the law says both, but I'm not 100% comfortable with that. If my kid was part of the latter group I would do what I could to keep that from happening. Right or wrong. Put me on the receiving end of the pain and I would probably feel differently. The Anthony family has the unfortunate circumstances of being closely related to both perpetrator and victim. I imagine their pain is so great they just can't stomach the thought of losing another loved one to this horrible situation even if that person is the one who caused it in the first place. I do have some sympathy and understanding for what CA did today.

Casey made her bed when she decided to hide her actions. After that point it wouldn't make a differece if she admitted to it or not, she would still go to prison. And I do think her angle is to get herself out of prison. I don't think she has a great grasp of what the DP means for her, just as she didn't grasp that putting her baby in the trunk would certainly eventually lead to her death. Of course she knew it was possible but the draw of the prize (partying) overweighed the risk. She now sees the real prize as getting to go back to 'bella vita'. Anything other than that is probably all the same to her and worth the risk.

I think you are right about ICA. I followed a case in CA that just concluded. It was eerily similar to this case; single mom whose parents were very supportive, smothered her 18 mo old baby & pleaded innocent - she was recently convicted of Murder 1. After sitting through 2 years of hearings with a "poker face", when she came to court to be sentenced 3 weeks after the trial she looked like she hadn't slept since being convicted. Reality finally hit her like a brick. I think ICA will do the same. I've seen no signs from her that she has realized the gravity of her situation.

While I have compassion for CA & GA, I feel that they have caused most of the drama we have witnessed and I believe they obstructed justice in their misguided attempt to support ICA. They also threw too many innocents under the bus, rather than facing the evil acts of their daughter, I cannot bring myself to sympathize with them since they have continued their support after everything she has done. Part of that everything being, I believe ICA murdered Caylee to hurt Cindy and I believe she continued her little charade as a means of torturing both her parents. She is twisted.

I think I have the same problem with the death penalty that you have - there should be some sort of uniformity across all states. We need legislature that would create equal punishment for equal crimes, regardless of the state you were in. Not sure if that can ever happen, so in the mean time I have become a DP supporter for those predators who commit atrocities and those who can treat another human with callus disregard to their safety and well being.

 

[STEADFAST]

I'm not sure what I'd do, since I can't even imagine being in Cindy's situation. I'm guessing that I would tell the truth, even if it meant my child would go to prison. But I might lie to save his/her life if I could find any way to forgive the murder of my grandchild. Actually, I might just run away.

 

[smartsass]

Hi all

I have read with great interest the range of responses in this thread and as the adage "there's nothing new under the sun" goes, my sentiments echo many already expected.

First, I recognize that I cannot truly know what I would I do, I can't say with absolute certainty and I pray to whatever is holy that I never have to find out.

I do know that my love for my children, like all of you here, is boundless. I am a wonderfully kind and helpful person until you cause or I perceive you may cause harm, to them.Then my mama lion comes out and I would rip someone apart if I had to. )I want to make sure I clarify that I don't feel those with differing opinions love their children any less.)

I came to the conclusion almost three years ago now that the reason George and Cindy have been so protective of Casey from the start, apart from understandable absolute shock and disbelief, is because they know Caylee is gone, nothing can bring her back. Now they stand to lose Casey too. In a short span of time, their entire lives were uprooted. Say what you will about the Anthony's, G & C's parenting or perceived lack thereof, cannot be blamed for Casey's (alleged) actions.

Given that they know Caylee is gone and understanding that they'd want to preserve what's left of their family at all costs, I can completely understand why they have (seemingly) been in such denial and have been so vocally supportive of Casey. At the very least, I would expect parents to not come out and further vilify or help hang the noose for their child, I can understand them not coming out and saying anything negative, that's what family should do (whether or not they took it too far, IMO, is another matter entirely).

Bottom line, yes, I would lie, cheat, steal, and *perhaps* even kill to protect my child, even in these circumstances. Caylee is gone but Casey is still here. Nothing can erase the pain that G & C are feeling and I would wager a guess that if Casey ever makes it back home, her presence will be like salt and rubbing alcohol like open wounds. But I imagine it would be much, much worse to know that now your only daughter was going to be sentenced to death by the state and that perhaps, you could have done something to prevent it.

 

[LCoastMom]

Cindy could possibly have known there was some relationship between eating a plant and chloroform, I think she is very intelligent. But is it realistic?

When I first got my dog my boyfriend was spazzing out because she was eating grass. I know a lot about dogs and various theories about why they do that, on top of that I read every thing I could about it when I got Mimi. On top of that I was a wizz in my botany class and lab. I have never heard of a relationship between chloroform and chlorophyll. Not saying that means Cindy wouldn't have know, just saying.

Does anyone know if the plants had just been planted by the A's? I think that bamboo is quite expensive. If the bamboo has been in the A's backyard for a long time I think there is a low probability that CA could CA connect the dog eating bamboo to the dog being sleepy. And then talking it a step further to link chloroform, something commonly found in plants, with chlorophyll?

Would it be more likely that she would at least begin her search by googling bamboo and sleepy dog.

Chlorophyll is something that makes plants green. Young little baby bamboo has a lot of chlorophyll, but the leaves on the older ones seems to be towards the top where you see the baby shoots. Did the dogs climb to the top to get at that? It therefor is even less probability that she would think the bamboo eating was causing sleepiness.

Beside that think of all the cows, goats, sheeps, etc. that would be drooping over stoned because the grass they eat is filled with chlorophyll. :crazy:

But Cindy is smart so who knows what she knows that I don't. When she was coming up as a nurse sexism was even worse than it is today, she probably worked her tail end off to be the best she could be. Maybe she ran into that somewhere and she remembered it because it was so weird.

Maybe the Prosecution should asked how she specifically made the link to sleepiness in the dogs and chloroform in bamboo. I mean aside from the two words sounding alike.

Since chloroform was once used as to knock people out for surgery Cindy would know why it is not used anymore, it could cause major damage to the respiratory system. So wouldn't the dogs who are tiny be more affected by a substance, so wouldn't the dog's symptoms be much more severe than sleeping a lot? Severe symptoms make it more likely that she would make an appointment with the vet ASAP instead of consulting the internet? Mimi has valley fever and in the beginning when I was becoming more familiar with it I called the vet with anything that even remotely looked like a symptom. Drove them nuts probably but they called me back quickly if I had to leave a message.

Did CA make an appointment with her vet? Did she call them about it? Did she talk to co-workers who like her know a lot about that stuff?

And didn't she say in one of her letters to ICA that she had just STARTED to leave the dogs out more or with less supervision. If she was out there with the dogs at the time she made the search she would be able to make sure they wouldn't gobble up the bamboo, so how did they eat enough of it to get droopy?

Cindy and I are the same age and have a similar education. No way, no how did Cindy ever think her dog was consuming chloroform by chewing on green plants.

BTW I have chlorophyll doggy treats in my pantry (they're good for doggy breath). There is no warning on the package that they can cause excessive sleepiness. I guess we can give CA points for trying, I mean really - this one had to take more thought than ICA used to come up with the Zanni-nanny!

 

[LCoastMom]

Hi all

I have read with great interest the range of responses in this thread and as the adage "there's nothing new under the sun" goes, my sentiments echo many already expected.

First, I recognize that I cannot truly know what I would I do, I can't say with absolute certainty and I pray to whatever is holy that I never have to find out.

I do know that my love for my children, like all of you here, is boundless. I am a wonderfully kind and helpful person until you cause or I perceive you may cause harm, to them.Then my mama lion comes out and I would rip someone apart if I had to. )I want to make sure I clarify that I don't feel those with differing opinions love their children any less.)

I came to the conclusion almost three years ago now that the reason George and Cindy have been so protective of Casey from the start, apart from understandable absolute shock and disbelief, is because they know Caylee is gone, nothing can bring her back. Now they stand to lose Casey too. In a short span of time, their entire lives were uprooted. Say what you will about the Anthony's, G & C's parenting or perceived lack thereof, cannot be blamed for Casey's (alleged) actions.

Given that they know Caylee is gone and understanding that they'd want to preserve what's left of their family at all costs, I can completely understand why they have (seemingly) been in such denial and have been so vocally supportive of Casey. At the very least, I would expect parents to not come out and further vilify or help hang the noose for their child, I can understand them not coming out and saying anything negative, that's what family should do (whether or not they took it too far, IMO, is another matter entirely).

Bottom line, yes, I would lie, cheat, steal, and *perhaps* even kill to protect my child, even in these circumstances. Caylee is gone but Casey is still here. Nothing can erase the pain that G & C are feeling and I would wager a guess that if Casey ever makes it back home, her presence will be like salt and rubbing alcohol like open wounds. But I imagine it would be much, much worse to know that now your only daughter was going to be sentenced to death by the state and that perhaps, you could have done something to prevent it.

Hi smartsass and :welcome4:

 

[shgrbkr]

I had this discussion with my son last year when I was explaining the case to him during one of CA's TV stints. I told him I'd turn him quicker than a new york minute if he were to do something like that. He said he hoped I would cuz he'd deserve it. No, I wouldn't lie in that case, but I might to keep him off death row, sure. I would absolutely take his phone calls, go to visit him and send money. I would not, could not, turn my back on any of my children that way.

 

[Nali87]

The question is not formulated right in my opinion. NO, I would not lie to get a child of mine acquitted. Not if she's a monster who killed my own granddaughter and might be capable of murdering again. YES, I'd lie and plead for her life during the penalty phase. I'd plead for her to not get the DP, but I would not lie to get her acquitted.

 

[Tennessean]

How far would GA go to see ICA saved from the DP or murder one? Would he retract his prior statement that he didn't molest ICA, and lie that he DID molest her and aided her in the cover-up, take a perjury rap (likely) and molestation rap (unlikely), and complicity rap (maybe) to mitigate her punishment or to actually try to 'save' her?

It wouldn't be painless for George, but the question is would he do it for his family, except Caylee, of course. Maybe he has already agreed to take the fall. Baez seemed confident in his opening . . .

I'm betting that Cindy would be all for this turn of events. Cindy dominates George, IMO. Maybe they could 'get back together' etc. if George took this route.

I have never heard this discussed on any other forums I have been on and wanted to make a new thread on the topic, but being new I didn't have the proper authority.

Do you think that George may take a bullet or two for ICA?

 

[marlap]

How far would GA go to see ICA saved from the DP or murder one? Would he retract his prior statement that he didn't molest ICA, and lie that he DID molest her and aided her in the cover-up, take a perjury rap (likely) and molestation rap (unlikely), and complicity rap (maybe) to mitigate her punishment or to actually try to 'save' her?

It wouldn't be painless for George, but the question is would he do it for his family, except Caylee, of course. Maybe he has already agreed to take the fall. Baez seemed confident in his opening . . .

I'm betting that Cindy would be all for this turn of events. Cindy dominates George, IMO. Maybe they could 'get back together' etc. if George took this route.

I have never heard this discussed on any other forums I have been on and wanted to make a new thread on the topic, but being new I didn't have the proper authority.

Do you think that George may take a bullet or two for ICA?

Their lawyer Lippman said last night on multiple shows that GA and CA completely reject and deny the defense's claims that GA ever molested ICA or that GA helped cover up Caylee's death.

 

[Tennessean]

Their lawyer Lippman said last night on multiple shows that GA and CA completely reject and deny the defense's claims that GA ever molested ICA or that GA helped cover up Caylee's death.

I didn't say it wouldn't constitute 'surprise blockbuster testimony' :crazy:, but the Anthony family seems to be a surprise/blockbuster magnet ..

I understand your point, though.

 

[marlap]

I just know they have denied the abuse and cover up, including GA on the stand in front of the jury saying that he never molested ICA.

 

[Tennessean]

One other thing. Maybe George could simply take the fifth, in the jury's presence, to new defense questions about his involvement. Not that the Judge would be too happy about that. It may sort of cushion the impact on the jury's impression of ICA, raising some doubt as to the lone perp theory of the prosecution. It might even cause a mistrial by a prosecution motion, and a bar spanking for Baez (he is going to get his whuppin' anyway), but at this stage with -no- defense to what she did it might be worth a shot.

 

[Silmarion]

If Casey really killed her child, (and I'm not convinced she did) then there must have been something very wrong with her, most likely for a long time, and her parents had to know, but did not take her to a psychiatrist when they noticed her unusual behavior. Surely they suspected she lied about many things.

Most kids lie about simple things. Or they make up things in their play. But the kind of lies Casey tells is much more involved than a simple "white lie". She's no longer a child but still makes up all kinds of false stories that go on and on. It's true that kids make up stories in their play even as tots. But Casey is an adult. Her lies were real. Parents should have suspected her unusual behavior and had her examined by a psychiatrist long ago. jmo

 

[downport]

It's good to see all the honesty in this thread. None of us really know how we would react in a given unfathomable situation.
People have scrubles, morals, convitions, inner guide posts & we all hope to do the correct thing in a crisis.
I've tried to put myself in these peoples position but simply can't conjure up the magnitude of their expierience.
Watching Cindy Anthony lie audaciously over & over yesterday gave me an overwhelming sensation of disgust. I still have it. I know that's because I try to be truthful myself in all things, big AND small. Sooooo ... I start thinking oh I could never do what she just did. Then I think about, God forbid, my son facing the DP & I'm think maybe I could lie. So even after sleeping on this question I still don't know.

I've been trying to dig deep to find reasons I COULD lie in this situation & I can only think of 2:
1) if I was truely in doubt of guilt of this henious deed
2) some circumstance that caused my child to become a monster & therefore I felt the need to protect him

Then I start thinking about #2 & it has me wondering if there could be some truth in the acusations Baez made & that's why CA has done this.

Then I think damn this case is crazy & this family is effed up & I don't care what happens to any of them as long as it's nothing good.

I've decided I'm thinking too much about all this & it's best to bring it back to square one; there's a dead child, obviously murdered, dumped like garbage & Casey Anthony needs to die. If people have perjured themselves in this case they need to be charged & punished to the full extent of the law.

 

[kimonomyhouse]

I would absolutely lie to save my child's life, no matter the circumstances. I would NOT lie to get an acquittal, but to avoid the DP? Yes, unequivocally. I would do the same for my husband or my grandchildren. I would feel guilty about it, but I would do anything in my power to keep my family alive, no matter what they'd done.

 

[Tennessean]

One other thing. Maybe George could simply take the fifth, in the jury's presence, to new defense questions about his involvement. Not that the Judge would be too happy about that. It may sort of cushion the impact on the jury's impression of ICA, raising some doubt as to the lone perp theory of the prosecution. It might even cause a mistrial by a prosecution motion, and a bar spanking for Baez (he is going to get his whuppin' anyway), but at this stage with -no- defense to what she did it might be worth a shot.

I put an expanded version of this post over in the 'ask the lawyers' section for those interested:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141105&page=6

 

[AnotherGladysKravitz]

Traffic court, maybe.

 

[Nali87]

Traffic court, maybe.

 

[Tracey276]

I was so glad to see this thread because I have been thinking about it since the beginning and I have went both ways on this issue. First, I have to say, I don't think ANYONE can know FOR POSITIVE what one would do in a real life circumstance with one's own child and the facts being specific to ones family.

However, I truly put MY child in this case and tried to really feel what it would be like. And I can say with some confidence, as horrible as it is, I may lie to save my child and bring her/him home! (don't throw rocks at me) Just the thought of her rotting in prison would kill me.And being the type of person I am, I would believe oh, I can get her help. I could fix her, as unrealistic as that may be.

Also, I do allow for the fact, that I don't have a grandchild. So, I don't know how that feels to personally compare. I suspect if I had a grandchild who I loved just as dearly as my child and my child murdered her/him, I may feel completely different. I think that may make a huge difference.

I'm going to go back through the thread and read if anyone has a child and a grandchild to see what they feel.

But ya know, as far as ICA, she is the ONLY one who knows what happened. So, if she TRULY wants to save herself, SHE COULD! She wouldn't need anyone else to lie for her. She could simply tell the TRUTH and make a deal to NOT get the DP. So, IMO, she is doing this absolutely 100% HERSELF, if she does get the DP for not telling the whole truth and what happened.

 

[Oakley]

I am convinced that even if the death penalty wasn't a factor, Cindy would have lied anyway. She was lying ("it was pizza that caused the smell in the trunk of the car") before the death penalty was imposed so I have every reason to believe she would lie in any case. It's just the way she rolls.