Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

[screecher]

Everyone keeps making my point and not getting it.

As I said before, no it's not a complete puzzle. We hold about 50 pieces to a 100 piece box. We can't make a complete picture, so we have to make up stuff and force a fit. Not sure how much simpler I can make the analogy.

I'm not sure what exactly happened to Max or Rebecca. With the pieces we know, I patched together a picture similar to LE's. Before I go labeling people murderers, I like to be sure I have all the information. And I simply don't. Do you?




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BBM

Yep. The SDSD certainly did. As did those people Dina hired to prove Rebecca 'torpedoed' Maxie over the banister. Pathetic efforts at that. IMO.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

When I say "we", I mean the general public. Us- the ones going around and around in circles trying to make square pegs fit into round holes.


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[screecher]

You don't think SDSO and Dina's paid minions pathetically attempted to 'fit square pegs into round holes'?

And truly believe "we" and "us" are?

 

[K_Z]

Those of us here have expressed our opinions about what happened to Rebecca for several years now. To my knowledge, no one on these threads (including the closed ones) has ever expressed that they have changed their mind on murder vs suicide. And to be sure, there have been a couple variations discussed as to what may have happened regarding the sequence of events in the murder theory. But for those that think RZ's death was murder, though the minute details may vary, the conclusions are the same. So, I don't think any of us, at this point, are going to change any minds about what we think happened to Rebecca. Like the Zahau family, many of us here believe strongly that Rebecca was murdered, and that the correct individuals are named in the wrongful death lawsuit.

I really do hope this case moves along and ends up in front of a jury. But we all know that if it does, it will again be very high profile. That would affect not only the 3 defendants, but Jonah Shacknai by association. (And his older teens, who he almost certainly wants to shield from any future media coverage, like any parent would.) JS simply can't escape that, IMO. And he is the only one, IMO, to have substantial impact related to his reputation and work. DS appears to have abandoned her psychologist career, but also doesn't appear to be doing much with her memorial nonprofit over the past year. Perhaps she is engaged in another area of philanthropy, or has another job, IDK. I'm not sure if NR works, or has a career-- no one has ever discussed her work or career in a media article or interview that I can recall. And AS's career and reputation a tug boat captain probably wouldn't be impacted all that much by a trial or a settlement, IMO. I'm sure none of the 3 defendants relish having this re-hashed in the media again. But JS is still a businessman, with his reputation to maintain. So, IMO, he has the most "reputation" to protect with the possibility of a high profile trial, even though he isn't named as a defendant.

There is such an enormous desire, IMO, to keep this away from a jury and out of the media, that I do believe that it's completely possible, if not probable, that the defendants will show up to a settlement conference with the full damages amount in hand (or even more), just to make it all go away forever. Who knows? If they settle, there will almost certainly be a gag order and nondisclosure clause. Gagging the Zahau family is something the defendants, including JS, might want very much to accomplish. They might think it's worth it to give them $10 million to do that, IMO.

It's also still possible the case could move along and then be tossed out on a technicality, as it was before. I don't think it's likely that it will end up in front of a jury-- I think settlement is far more likely. But for the sake of Rebecca's family, my hope for them is that they do get their day in court. I know a couple people accuse them of being "money grubbers", but IMO, this has never been only about the money. IMO, they want to hold those who they believe murdered her, accountable in some way, since the criminal justice system has failed them at every turn.

 

[K_Z]

Could we all stay on topic here in this thread? This thread is for discussing the wrongful death lawsuit filed by the Zahau relatives.

 

[Betty P]

Those of us here have expressed our opinions about what happened to Rebecca for several years now. To my knowledge, no one on these threads (including the closed ones) has ever expressed that they have changed their mind on murder vs suicide. And to be sure, there have been a couple variations discussed as to what may have happened regarding the sequence of events in the murder theory. But for those that think RZ's death was murder, though the minute details may vary, the conclusions are the same. So, I don't think any of us, at this point, are going to change any minds about what we think happened to Rebecca. Like the Zahau family, many of us here believe strongly that Rebecca was murdered, and that the correct individuals are named in the wrongful death lawsuit.

I really do hope this case moves along and ends up in front of a jury. But we all know that if it does, it will again be very high profile. That would affect not only the 3 defendants, but Jonah Shacknai by association. (And his older teens, who he almost certainly wants to shield from any future media coverage, like any parent would.) JS simply can't escape that, IMO. And he is the only one, IMO, to have substantial impact related to his reputation and work. DS appears to have abandoned her psychologist career, but also doesn't appear to be doing much with her memorial nonprofit over the past year. Perhaps she is engaged in another area of philanthropy, or has another job, IDK. I'm not sure if NR works, or has a career-- no one has ever discussed her work or career in a media article or interview that I can recall. And AS's career and reputation a tug boat captain probably wouldn't be impacted all that much by a trial or a settlement, IMO. I'm sure none of the 3 defendants relish having this re-hashed in the media again. But JS is still a businessman, with his reputation to maintain. So, IMO, he has the most "reputation" to protect with the possibility of a high profile trial, even though he isn't named as a defendant.

There is such an enormous desire, IMO, to keep this away from a jury and out of the media, that I do believe that it's completely possible, if not probable, that the defendants will show up to a settlement conference with the full damages amount in hand (or even more), just to make it all go away forever. Who knows? If they settle, there will almost certainly be a gag order and nondisclosure clause. Gagging the Zahau family is something the defendants, including JS, might want very much to accomplish. They might think it's worth it to give them $10 million to do that, IMO.

It's also still possible the case could move along and then be tossed out on a technicality, as it was before. I don't think it's likely that it will end up in front of a jury-- I think settlement is far more likely. But for the sake of Rebecca's family, my hope for them is that they do get their day in court. I know a couple people accuse them of being "money grubbers", but IMO, this has never been only about the money. IMO, they want to hold those who they believe murdered her, accountable in some way, since the criminal justice system has failed them at every turn.

I agree, K_Z. With a wealthy person like JS at the periphery of this case, it seems likely it will be settled out of court. I still have some reservations, though, recalling that JS failed to pay anything towards RZ's funeral expenses, even though she was his partner and was killed in his home. That speaks volumes to me. Helping pay funeral expenses for RZ would have been easy for someone as wealthy as JS. Was he trying to send a message or make a point? Was he embarrassed? Frugal?

I also feel the Zahau family has pursued re-opening the investigation and, later, the civil suit, because they're seeking answers. There is so little about this case that has been made available to the public and to RZ's family, so many missing details, so many gaps. Getting those answers may give them much needed peace of mind. I hope they do learn more. I hope RZ's personal posessions are eventually returned to her family.

Thanks for keeping us updated on the status of the lawsuit.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

I don't know why everyone keeps referring to Max's mother after I post. It's getting kind of weird for me.


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[bourne]

Everyone keeps making my point and not getting it.

As I said before, no it's not a complete puzzle. We hold about 50 pieces to a 100 piece box. We can't make a complete picture, so we have to make up stuff and force a fit. Not sure how much simpler I can make the analogy.

I'm not sure what exactly happened to Max or Rebecca. With the pieces we know, I patched together a picture similar to LE's. Before I go labeling people murderers, I like to be sure I have all the information. And I simply don't. Do you?




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Based on the overwhelming preponderance of evidence, Rebecca was murdered and I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dina was the murderer.

Yes, this is websleuths.com. We discuss real-life cases and give our educated and informed opinions. Nobody's making your point. If they are, why do you need to keep repeating it? I think you're the only one not getting it.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Based on the overwhelming preponderance of evidence, Rebecca was murdered and I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dina was the murderer.

Yes, this is websleuths.com. We discuss real-life cases and give our educated and informed opinions. Nobody's making your point. If they are, why do you need to keep repeating it? I think you're the only one not getting it.

No, I guess I don't get it. I don't get how one can label another "Murderer" based on limited information.


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[bourne]

Getting back to main point of this thread which is the wrongful death suit and our educated, informed opinions about it...

While I think KZ and kitty make valid points that Jonah may step in and pay to keep the publicity off him and his family/business and protect his brother Adam, I also think that a large part of him wants to stick it to his ex-wife Dina because of what she put him and his children through.

I hope he choose the latter.

"The truth shall set you free." JUSTICE FOR REBECCA ZAHAU.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

A big stretch, IMO, which paints Rebecca as a selfish, heartless woman who wanted JS all to herself, without Max or anyone else. That she did not care in the least about Max.

Am I surmising your statement correctly to read that she murdered Max then, and only because CPS called she killed herself because she was "caught?"

IMO It seems ludicrous that CPS would lay out a whole case to her over the phone: that she was being accused of severely injuring this child and would face consequences.

Then to leap to a conclusion that this phone call caused her suicide? Or was it Jonah's missing phone call that caused her to commit suicide per the SDSO?

So are we to believe that one of two phone calls led to her suicide?

IMO not even reasonably possibly true.

She certainly did not seem to care about Jonah's older children, and in every picture with Rebecca, IMO, Max looks very unhappy. She was also not too upset about Max's accident. It was just a "bad day". We only have her sister's description of how she was with Max. I wonder what Max would have said? Or ES or GS?

I believe that Jonah told her in the call that the doctors were suspicious of her story, and that Child Protective Services would be investigating. I also think he asked her to move out of Spreckels, until the investigation was over.

IMO, it is just as reasonably possibly true as the story the Zahau's are claiming…that Dina hit her over the head with the red dog bone after a chase in the courtyard, and that Adam strangled her and put black paint on her nipples. IMO, their civil case claims are ridiculous. No way it could have happened.

^Also, a confession from Nina. Oh and Dina lying. Now why would she feel the need to lie?

bahahaha!!!

You are stating that as fact. Do you have a MSM link that says Dina lied?

(My second request for a link.)

Respectfully snipped for brevity

To my knowledge, no one on these threads (including the closed ones) has ever expressed that they have changed their mind on murder vs suicide. And to be sure, there have been a couple variations discussed as to what may have happened regarding the sequence of events in the murder theory.

There is such an enormous desire, IMO, to keep this away from a jury and out of the media, that I do believe that it's completely possible, if not probable, that the defendants will show up to a settlement conference with the full damages amount in hand (or even more), just to make it all go away forever. ]

It's also still possible the case could move along and then be tossed out on a technicality, as it was before. ].

I have been reading some of the oldest threads, and it seems to me that many people (including the Zahaus) made up their minds within the first few days after the news hit that is was murder, [modsnip]. At that time, most people were blaming Jonah - the evil boyfriend - [modsnip]. After it was reported that he had an alibi, the blame changed to Adam and/or Dina and/or Nina.. That shows, IMO, that many here were never going to consider any evidence the SDSO/FBI/DOJ found…unless the conclusion was murder.

I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell the Shacknais or Dina Romano will settle. They have done nothing wrong and have been accused for far too long by the Zahau family. They won't give the Zahaus a nickel, IMO. In fact, I believe they will ask the court that the Zahaus pay all their legal costs.

It won't be thrown out on a technicality, IMO, after the Zahaus are allowed some time for discovery, the Shacknais and Dina Romano will ask for a Motion of Summary Judgement, and the case will be dropped when the Judge acknowledges that the Zahaus only have accusations, but no evidence to back them up.

Based on the overwhelming preponderance of evidence, Rebecca was murdered and I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dina was the murderer.

Yes, this is websleuths.com. We discuss real-life cases and give our educated and informed opinions. Nobody's making your point. If they are, why do you need to keep repeating it? I think you're the only one not getting it.

The Zahaus say in their lawsuit that Adam was the murderer. So you think they are wrong?

Respectfully snipped for brevity.

While I think KZ and kitty make valid points that Jonah may step in and pay to keep the publicity off him and his family/business and protect his brother Adam, I also think that a large part of him wants to stick it to his ex-wife Dina because of what she put him and his children through.

IMO, Jonah is very unhappy about the way the Zahaus have accused and tormented Dina, and could care less about his "reputation". Dina was the mother of his child, Max. He loved Max, and I doubt he is relishing the accusations the Zahaus have brought against Max's mother.




~ If I am correct and the case is thrown out due to no evidence to support the Zahaus claims, will the people that believe Rebecca Zahau was murdered still be raving about how wonderful Judge Whelan seems to be, how honest and fair? And you will accept that it was suicide? Or you will still believe you are right and Judge Whelan is wrong?

 

[Betty P]

To the contrary, I think the zahaus have a good chance of winning their suit. In addition to RZ's missing clothing, the appearance of the accused at the mansion just prior to her death, the bizarre, menacing note painted on the dokr and the complex tugboat hitch on the noose and other knots used bind RZ, they have a strong case.

The lack of a history of depression or alcohol and drug use make RZ an unlikely candidate for suicide.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

But they have no proof of any of that. Missing clothing is not proof. Nina at the mansion is not proof. The note is not proof. The knots are not proof. A lack of history of depression or alcohol and drug use are not proof.

Where is the evidence that Nina, Dina, and Adam were there and did the things the Zahaus allege? Do they have a video tape? Did someone see Dina, Nina, and Adam attack Rebecca?

Where is the proof? Easy to say, hard to prove when it didn't happen.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

But they have no proof of any of that. Missing clothing is not proof. Nina at the mansion is not proof. The note is not proof. The knots are not proof. A lack of history of depression or alcohol and drug use are not proof.

Where is the evidence that Nina, Dina, and Adam were there and did the things the Zahaus allege? Do they have a video tape? Did someone see Dina, Nina, and Adam attack Rebecca?

Where is the proof? Easy to say, hard to prove when it didn't happen.

Is there a video of RZ killing herself?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Is there a video of RZ killing herself?

No, but there is DNA, fingerprints, and footprints that prove only Rebecca Zahau painted the message, tied the knots, and stepped out on the balcony alone. In addition to the forensic evidence, there are diary entries, the fact that she boarded her dog and sent her sister home early that morning, and the Korean movie The Housemaid she copied her suicide from which was taken into evidence. There is also the fact that it was investigated by the SDSO, FBI, and DOJ, using at least 15 detectives. And the fact that the Attorney General of California reviewed the case twice and saw no problems with the investigation and the conclusion that Rebecca's death was a suicide.

The Zahaus will need more than accusations if they want the case to move forward. How are they going to prove that Nina, Dina, and Adam were in the room with the balcony? There is no evidence to support that.

 

[kittychi]

She certainly did not seem to care about Jonah's older children, and in every picture with Rebecca, IMO, Max looks very unhappy. She was also not too upset about Max's accident. It was just a "bad day". We only have her sister's description of how she was with Max. I wonder what Max would have said? Or ES or GS?

I believe that Jonah told her in the call that the doctors were suspicious of her story, and that Child Protective Services would be investigating. I also think he asked her to move out of Spreckels, until the investigation was over.

IMO, it is just as reasonably possibly true as the story the Zahau's are claiming…that Dina hit her over the head with the red dog bone after a chase in the courtyard, and that Adam strangled her and put black paint on her nipples. IMO, their civil case claims are ridiculous. No way it could have happened.







You are stating that as fact. Do you have a MSM link that says Dina lied?

(My second request for a link.)







I have been reading some of the oldest threads, and it seems to me that many people (including the Zahaus) made up their minds within the first few days after the news hit that is was murder, [modsnip]. At that time, most people were blaming Jonah - the evil boyfriend - [modsnip]. After it was reported that he had an alibi, the blame changed to Adam and/or Dina and/or Nina.. That shows, IMO, that many here were never going to consider any evidence the SDSO/FBI/DOJ found…unless the conclusion was murder.

I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell the Shacknais or Dina Romano will settle. They have done nothing wrong and have been accused for far too long by the Zahau family. They won't give the Zahaus a nickel, IMO. In fact, I believe they will ask the court that the Zahaus pay all their legal costs.

It won't be thrown out on a technicality, IMO, after the Zahaus are allowed some time for discovery, the Shacknais and Dina Romano will ask for a Motion of Summary Judgement, and the case will be dropped when the Judge acknowledges that the Zahaus only have accusations, but no evidence to back them up.







The Zahaus say in their lawsuit that Adam was the murderer. So you think they are wrong?







IMO, Jonah is very unhappy about the way the Zahaus have accused and tormented Dina, and could care less about his "reputation". Dina was the mother of his child, Max. He loved Max, and I doubt he is relishing the accusations the Zahaus have brought against Max's mother.




~ If I am correct and the case is thrown out due to no evidence to support the Zahaus claims, will the people that believe Rebecca Zahau was murdered still be raving about how wonderful Judge Whelan seems to be, how honest and fair? And you will accept that it was suicide? Or you will still believe you are right and Judge Whelan is wrong?

BBM: What call? There is no evidence anywhere of a call from Jonah to Rebecca.

 

[screecher]

BBM: What call? There is no evidence anywhere of a call from Jonah to Rebecca.

Yeah, what call? [modsnip]

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Jonah's phone records would have been checked and IMO, there is indeed an outgoing call to Rebecca late that night. Just like Dina's witnesses were checked and she was accounted for all night. The Zahaus have no case.

That's all you have? Just "what call"? Stlll looking for concrete physical proof that any of the three were in Rebecca's hanging room that night. Any evidence at all?

 

[screecher]

BBM

Getting back to main point of this thread which is the wrongful death suit and our educated, informed opinions about it...

While I think KZ and kitty make valid points that Jonah may step in and pay to keep the publicity off him and his family/business and protect his brother Adam, I also think that a large part of him wants to stick it to his ex-wife Dina because of what she put him and his children through.

I hope he choose the latter.

"The truth shall set you free." JUSTICE FOR REBECCA ZAHAU.

Yeppers. IMO, Jonah doesn't give a rat's a$$ about Dina, I imagine him to be pretty angry with her ranting on and on about Rebecca, with her media tour. IMO, if there was a way he could have silenced her, he would have. Alas, short of murdering her, he knew there no way in hell ... to temper a mad, raging and ranting Dina. I'm sure he rues ever taking up with her.

I also think he's tried every which way, to sever Adam from the Romano twins.

 

[K_Z]

IMO, Jonah is very unhappy about the way the Zahaus have accused and tormented Dina, and could care less about his "reputation". Dina was the mother of his child, Max. He loved Max, and I doubt he is relishing the accusations the Zahaus have brought against Max's mother.

BBM, and snipped.

As I consider Jonah's public statements and behavior since the very beginning of this, up to the present, I can't agree at all with this statement. I don't see any evidence for those conclusions.

I was very glad to see Jonah and Dina come together after Max died, to release a joint statement mourning his death. It does seem that they were able to move beyond the chaos and violence that marked the end of their marriage to at least come together on some respectful level to co-parent Max after their divorce. For Max’s sake, I’m very glad they did. And I was very glad to see Jonah attend Rebecca’s funeral. I also noticed that Dina did not attend (not unexpected), but even more telling to me is that she did not make any public statements supporting Jonah in his grief over losing his long term live-in partner. This was the woman who helped to care for her child as a consistent caregiver, and functioned in every way as an attentive stepparent, IMO. And that’s very important, IMO, and would not be lost on a jury, if this case ever makes it in front of one.

After Rebecca’s and Max's deaths, Jonah has appeared to have nothing more to do with Dina. They did not collaborate or come together to launch and manage the memorial organizations for Max. Jonah structured his as a foundation; Dina formed hers as a nonprofit. Neither of them have supported the other’s memorial organization efforts in any way publicly. No statements, no tweets, no publicly acknowledged contributions, no photo ops standing together to support each other’s efforts. No joint attendance at fundraisers. Now, sometimes what you DON’T say and do, telegraphs your support far more than what you do. In the area of how to memorialize their son, they have not come together in any way at all, not even superficially, IMO. (Wow, right?)

And then when I consider Dina’s campaign to re-open Max’s accident investigation, and her rounds on the media circuit, and hiring her experts to write reports, I can’t agree that there is any support from Jonah for what Dina has done in this area. He has made no public statements of support for her efforts, has not appeared in public with her (not even before the city council), has not gone on any talk shows to lend support, nothing. He hasn't even sat or stood next to her silently in interviews or public appearances. Jonah has not in any way supported Dina’s campaign to accuse Rebecca and her minor sister as the murderers of his child. That’s huge, IMO. Nothing. Complete radio silence. So I can only conclude that he does not in any way support Dina’s accusations against Rebecca and her minor sister.

So, for me it is not even remotely possible that Jonah is “upset” or distraught, or angry, at the wrongful death allegations by Rebecca’s family about naming Dina as one of 3 defendants. I haven’t seen any evidence of any kind that Jonah believes the Zahau relatives are “tormenting” Dina. What we have all seen and heard from Jonah is silence. Nothing. Complete radio silence.

So, using the logic of the obvious, I can’t conclude anything other than he does not publicly support EITHER the Zahau family, OR Dina (or Nina, or Adam) in this wrongful death lawsuit.

As time goes on and the case progresses, we will see (or not) if Jonah lends his support to either the plaintiffs or the defendants. That is the curiosity here.

We should also remember that the defendants cannot be “unjoined” in the suit. Meaning, one or more party can’t settle and cash out of the process leaving the other/s to continue. So, Jonah can’t bring a wad of cash to support his brother and help Adam settle his part, without also supporting Dina and Nina. Quite a dilemma, IMO, if he supports his brother, but not Dina and/ or Nina. IMO, if he supported Dina and Adam, it would be a no-brainer to also "help" Nina. If he supports all 3 of them, he probably will help them settle if the case isn't dismissed on another technicality. Or, he might hold his nose and help all three of them, even if he doesn't support one or more of them. Who knows? We all have to wait and see.

What I wonder is, has Dina (or Nina) privately contacted Jonah asking (begging?) for his support and financial help in this lawsuit? And would he be receptive?