Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

[LuckyLucy2]

Rebecca comitted her suiicide in a private courtyard of a residential home, not in the middle of a public street. Her body was left uncovered because that is standard in cases where the cause of death is not certain so that physical evidence like DNA and fingerprints are not comprimised. The police were doing their job.

If you want to blame someone for the photos of nude Rebecca lying dead in the courtyard, blame the San Diego News stations. Not the police.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Excellent point, Cynic. SDSO barely acknowledged the glaring, obvious disregard and lack of respect for Rebecca. (IMO there is a racist component there, also.) We all know they could have erected a canopy, but didn't. If I remember correctly, their excuse was because the medical examiner could not get there until the end of the day because he and his staff were at a conference. But to my knowledge, they did not ever apologize to the family.

Racist component? How so? I've never seen anything to suggest any racism at all in this case.

 

[kittychi]

Racist component? How so? I've never seen anything to suggest any racism at all in this case.

In my opinion, one reason for the blatant disregard for Rebecca's dignity was her race.

Private courtyard with neighbor kids peering down from their roof, a very large mansion with police and detectives milling around all day. A canopy could easily have been erected and it would not have compromised the physical evidence. If anything, the physical evidence was compromised with the body decaying in the summer sun for hours.

 

[K_Z]

How do you know the bicycle family is impartial? Furthermore, how do you know they weren't mistaken?

It seems we all agree that this is such an important issue that I really hope that this "bicycle" family, or at least the husband and wife, are called as witnesses, and deposed.

Sheriff Gore never revealed, or even hinted at why he determined that these witnesses and their observations were discarded, what their complete statements were, and what his investigation concluded about them. This is an area, IMO, where FOIA might need to be invoked, as these witnesses are potentially incriminatory, and potentially exculpatory, for Dina.

Same as any hospital witnesses. They are potentially incriminatory, and potentially exculpatory, for Dina. So, they are really critical witnesses, IMO.

I think that the complete investigation of all these witnesses, what they saw, and how they reported or recorded their observations, needs to be brought before a jury, for the jury's own evaluation.

Along with whatever is, or is not documented about Dina's presence, absence, and demeanor, in Max's PICU records before and after Rebecca's death.

Who exactly was interviewed from the PICU regarding Dina's whereabouts during the critical time period? What did they say? What evidence backs up their interviews? Or not?

IMO, this is clearly a critical issue for a jury. Where exactly was Dina during those critical hours? Who saw her, or didn't see her? What was her behavior and demeanor? Why isn't she seen on any cameras entering a large urban tertiary care pediatric hospital, or entering the PICU, or moving about in the common areas? There are literally dozens of cameras and views where she should have been seen. That HAS to be explained, IMO.

And if it isn't able to be established conclusively where she was, IMO, the jury may be informed that for many hours after Max's accident, police were unable to either find her, or get her to answer her door when they were trying to notify her. The 2 issues may be completely unrelated, but they may also show a pattern of behavior that the jury may find significant, IMO.

If this case survives to see a jury, every aspect of the SDSO investigation will be questioned and examined. The Zahau family believes the investigation was tremendously flawed in both the conduct and conclusion-- hence the wrongful death lawsuit. SDSO conclusions are what they are-- but they may be a long way from accurate and correct. I understand SDSO concluded suicide-- but I am not persuaded that conclusion is correct. There is a lot more that persuades me that this was an unprosecuted murder. JMO.

 

[kittychi]

It seems we all agree that this is such an important issue that I really hope that this "bicycle" family, or at least the husband and wife, are called as witnesses, and deposed.

Sheriff Gore never revealed, or even hinted at why he determined that these witnesses and their observations were discarded, what their complete statements were, and what his investigation concluded about them. This is an area, IMO, where FOIA might need to be invoked, as these witnesses are potentially incriminatory, and potentially exculpatory, for Dina.

Same as any hospital witnesses. They are potentially incriminatory, and potentially exculpatory, for Dina. So, they are really critical witnesses, IMO.

I think that the complete investigation of all these witnesses, what they saw, and how they reported or recorded their observations, needs to be brought before a jury, for the jury's own evaluation.

Along with whatever is, or is not documented about Dina's presence, absence, and demeanor, in Max's PICU records before and after Rebecca's death.

Who exactly was interviewed from the PICU regarding Dina's whereabouts during the critical time period? What did they say? What evidence backs up their interviews? Or not?

IMO, this is clearly a critical issue for a jury. Where exactly was Dina during those critical hours? Who saw her, or didn't see her? What was her behavior and demeanor? Why isn't she seen on any cameras entering a large urban tertiary care pediatric hospital, or entering the PICU, or moving about in the common areas? There are literally dozens of cameras and views where she should have been seen. That HAS to be explained, IMO.

And if it isn't able to be established conclusively where she was, IMO, the jury may be informed that for many hours after Max's accident, police were unable to either find her, or get her to answer her door when they were trying to notify her. The 2 issues may be completely unrelated, but they may also show a pattern of behavior that the jury may find significant, IMO.

If this case survives to see a jury, every aspect of the SDSO investigation will be questioned and examined. The Zahau family believes the investigation was tremendously flawed in both the conduct and conclusion-- hence the wrongful death lawsuit. SDSO conclusions are what they are-- but they may be a long way from accurate and correct. I understand SDSO concluded suicide-- but I am not persuaded that conclusion is correct. There is a lot more that persuades me that this was an unprosecuted murder. JMO.

K_Z :goodpost:

 

[K_Z]

Racist component? How so? I've never seen anything to suggest any racism at all in this case.

One of the websites relied upon by Dina's privately hired pathologist expert, Dr. Judy Melinek, and cited specifically in Dr. Melinek's written and publicized report, is filled with nasty, racist comments about Rebecca's Asian features and ethnicity. (Wow, right?) And Dr. Melinek AND Dina made not a single reference verbally or in writing condemning these comments, or this site. (Wow again, right?) That is endorsement, IMO. Dr. Melinek only says she was provided this site by Dina.

The language at that particular site (not linked here on purpose by TOS), cited by both Dina and Dr. Melinek, is directed at Rebecca specifically, by name, and contains comments so vile and offensive that it probably qualifies as hate speech (not freedom of speech) under federal laws, if Rebecca were still alive. There are voluminous racist and hate comments about other living members of the Zahau family at that site, as well, because of their Burmese heritage and Asian features.

And there are many other remarks in the "comments" sections of various online sites and articles that include racist remarks, by just a very few posters with remarkably similar posting language and behaviors.

So yes, I agree that there has definitely been a racist and hate component to this particular case. Dina herself has endorsed a site filled with racist hate speech about Rebecca. That makes Rebecca's death circumstances even more troublesome for Dina, IMO.

That these hate comments online have dwindled in recent months does not negate the depth of the rage and racism by a few commenters in the early months and years after Rebecca's death.

And you have to ask yourself, why would someone like Dina and Dr. Melinek collaborate and utilize information from a racist hate site when producing any kind of a serious report to try to persuade authorities to reopen Max's accident investigation? Why? A bunch of anonymous racist hate mongers was the best they could find? Good grief. What does that say about Dina and Dr. Melinek? Nothing good or professional, IMO. Imagine what a jury would think about THAT.

 

[AZlawyer]

On the “ask a verified lawyer” thread, questions were asked about various parties to this lawsuit filing slander or libel cases against one another. AZlawyer points out that such lawsuits can’t be filed against, or on behalf of, a dead person.

However, I think it’s possible there has been non-publicized legal action threatened or taken against Dina, enjoining her from making any further comments publicly about one of the living people she has publicly accused—RZ’s minor sister. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the family has taken some legal measures to prevent Dina from making any more comments about this minor in her media interviews. Dina had been ramping up the allegations in her interviews, becoming more specific about RZ and her minor sister in her allegations—and then very abruptly stopped. I wondered then if there was some kind of child protection restraining order on behalf of the minor, or even a few “cease and desist letters” to Dina and her attorneys. That would make logical and practical sense, IMO—and explain why Dina abruptly stopped her interviews. That would be part of discovery in this case, if it exists, I’d think.

IMO, a jury would certainly want to know about something like that, if it exists. It would be part of the total picture, and evidence.

BBM

A defamation case can be filed against a deceased person's estate, but not for the deceased person.

Actually, that's another question on which I'd like the help of our resident legal eagles...

It's just a fact that purely circumstantial evidence can convict, in a criminal case. Do the same rules and protocols exist for *civil* cases?

Yes, here's the jury instruction:

Evidence may be direct or circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact, such
as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did. Circumstantial
evidence is proof of one or more facts from which you could find another fact. You should
consider both kinds of evidence. The law makes no distinction between the weight to be given
to either direct or circumstantial evidence. It is for you to decide how much weight to give to
any evidence.

Comment (optional but most judges will read this part as well):

It may be helpful to include an illustrative example in the instruction:
By way of example, if you wake up in the morning and see that the
sidewalk is wet, you may find from that fact that it rained during the night.
However, other evidence, such as a turned on garden hose, may provide a
different explanation for the presence of water on the sidewalk. Therefore, before
you decide that a fact has been proved by circumstantial evidence, you must
consider all the evidence in the light of reason, experience, and common sense.

 

[coastal]

BBM

A defamation case can be filed against a deceased person's estate, but not for the deceased person.



Yes, here's the jury instruction:

Evidence may be direct or circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact, such
as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did. Circumstantial
evidence is proof of one or more facts from which you could find another fact. You should
consider both kinds of evidence. The law makes no distinction between the weight to be given
to either direct or circumstantial evidence. It is for you to decide how much weight to give to
any evidence.

Comment (optional but most judges will read this part as well):

It may be helpful to include an illustrative example in the instruction:
By way of example, if you wake up in the morning and see that the
sidewalk is wet, you may find from that fact that it rained during the night.
However, other evidence, such as a turned on garden hose, may provide a
different explanation for the presence of water on the sidewalk. Therefore, before
you decide that a fact has been proved by circumstantial evidence, you must
consider all the evidence in the light of reason, experience, and common sense.

Thank you so much!

 

[LuckyLucy2]

One of the websites relied upon by Dina's privately hired pathologist expert, Dr. Judy Melinek, and cited specifically in Dr. Melinek's written and publicized report, is filled with nasty, racist comments about Rebecca's Asian features and ethnicity. (Wow, right?) And Dr. Melinek AND Dina made not a single reference verbally or in writing condemning these comments, or this site. (Wow again, right?) That is endorsement, IMO. Dr. Melinek only says she was provided this site by Dina.

The language at that particular site (not linked here on purpose by TOS), cited by both Dina and Dr. Melinek, is directed at Rebecca specifically, by name, and contains comments so vile and offensive that it probably qualifies as hate speech (not freedom of speech) under federal laws, if Rebecca were still alive. There are voluminous racist and hate comments about other living members of the Zahau family at that site, as well, because of their Burmese heritage and Asian features.

And there are many other remarks in the "comments" sections of various online sites and articles that include racist remarks, by just a very few posters with remarkably similar posting language and behaviors.

So yes, I agree that there has definitely been a racist and hate component to this particular case. Dina herself has endorsed a site filled with racist hate speech about Rebecca. That makes Rebecca's death circumstances even more troublesome for Dina, IMO.

That these hate comments online have dwindled in recent months does not negate the depth of the rage and racism by a few commenters in the early months and years after Rebecca's death.

And you have to ask yourself, why would someone like Dina and Dr. Melinek collaborate and utilize information from a racist hate site when producing any kind of a serious report to try to persuade authorities to reopen Max's accident investigation? Why? A bunch of anonymous racist hate mongers was the best they could find? Good grief. What does that say about Dina and Dr. Melinek? Nothing good or professional, IMO. Imagine what a jury would think about THAT.

I have spent the entire morning looking through the website that you say is "filled with racist hate speech" and I cannot find even one instance of racism or "hate speech". Not one. The site seems more devoted to quelling the misinformation that is floating around about this case. Again, I saw no racist remarks whatsoever. However, I know that the pages of the Coronado Patch were filled with remarks about Jonah being rich and Jewish. I do think there has been prejudice in this case, but I have seen none leveled at Rebecca, only Jonah and his family.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Wasn't it proven that whatever racist, vile remarks were made actually came from someone trying to discredit the opinions of those who thought suicide?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Yes, I did see that while I was looking and in fact, there is an entire long post devoted to that - about how they deleted all of her posts. I believe it was someone that posted as SicKitten?

 

[Ausgirl]

I think Gore was perfectly right to question the truthfulness of a person who is associated with the only "Insider" on this case.

Yes, I am sure Gore has spent many an hour hovering over this sub-forum, trying to work out who's who. :shakehead:

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Well, it may have not been Gore, but it is possible someone made that connection. It is certainly a valid reason for discounting the "witnesseses" story. Along with the fact that he says he saw someone "acting suspiciously", yet didn't call the police that night.

 

[inthedark14]

Wasn't it proven that whatever racist, vile remarks were made actually came from someone trying to discredit the opinions of those who thought suicide?

Where was that proven? Could you kindly provide a link?
TIA!

 

[LuckyLucy2]

We are not suppose to supply links to the website for some reason, but it is under their Forum Rules and Announcements.

 

[inthedark14]

I have spent the entire morning looking through the website that you say is "filled with racist hate speech" and I cannot find even one instance of racism or "hate speech". Not one. The site seems more devoted to quelling the misinformation that is floating around about this case. Again, I saw no racist remarks whatsoever. However, I know that the pages of the Coronado Patch were filled with remarks about Jonah being rich and Jewish. I do think there has been prejudice in this case, but I have seen none leveled at Rebecca, only Jonah and his family.

That's interesting, I've seen those comments, perhaps they are no longer there, or moved to the members only area of that website. As far as the Coronado Patch, I didn't see any comments made about JS being rich and Jewish, except by anon posters ranting about how others were anti Semitic. :dunno:

I'm sure all the screen grabs over the years will come in handy.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[Ausgirl]

........anyway.

Thank you very much once more, AZ, for the legal information.

"Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact, such as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did. Circumstantialevidence is proof of one or more facts from which you could find another fact. You should consider both kinds of evidence."

I think that clears up whether or not a jury will consider circumstantial evidence as valid evidence. Seems it's part and parcel of the 'job', eh.

 

[bourne]

Nope, my statement is correct, and I have the SDSO, FBI, DOJ, and Anne Rule to back me up on that.

Ok, I get it. You didn't like the way Sherrif Gore answered a question at the press conference. Ok. But that doesn't mean that Dina killed Rebecca Zahau, and it doesn't make all the physical evidence that it was suicide go away.

You missed my point completely. I have no like/dislike/any feelings towards the *way* anyone including Gore answers questions. It's the *content* of his answers that are illogical and begs to be doubted.

No, I don't see any physical evidence -- none whatsoever -- that shows Rebecca did any harm to herself. What I clearly see are mountains of physical and circumstantial evidence showing that Rebecca was heinously, viciously, savagely murdered in the most humiliating way possible by one or more of the defendants (Dina, Nina and Adam) named in the WDS.

E.g., how could it be that Rebecca's DNA/fingerprints are *not* found anywhere on one knife (yet found on the other knife), on one paintbrush but not another, and how could it be that her DNA/prints are *not* found exclusively inside gloves (given that single-use latex gloves are disposable why would there be "inconclusive" DNA?) -- particularly since she seemed to be a DNA/cell shredder after having left clear fingerprints on the bedpost and other minor items? The most logical conclusion is that her DNA/prints were strategically planted by her murderer(s) on those minor items.

Think about it. If you allegedly feel guilty about having injured a child so much you wanted to end your life *without even finding out whether the child would live or not since according to Dina, the biological mother of the child, she thought Max was going to live and be ok and needed tutoring only and she and Jonah pulled Max off the respirator 5 days later*, would you have made your suicide that elaborate and convoluted so much so the anti-Zahaus claim you were trying to frame Dina or Jonah for murder? Makes no sense. If you were feeling guilty, you would want to immediately end your life, not go through *hours of preparation* *equipped with multiple paintbrushes, multiple knives, precisely cut ropes so well cut* there are *no frays anywhere* at the crime scene, not even in the wastebasket! And then paint a taunting sarcastic statement in the *third-person*? For what? If you were feeling guilt, you'd take the blame. Otherwise, you have nothing to feel guilty for and would *not* take your life! In other words, Rebecca's death is clearly a MURDER most vile. And she was murdered by a combination of the 3 defendants (Dina, Nina and Adam) because they were physically present at the mansion during the timeframe where the whole set-up of the murder took place (they had opportunity) -- and they all know how to tie sailing ropes in intricate knots (they had the means) -- and they had motive with Dina having the most motive given that her only child and son, Max, was critically injured during Rebecca (Dina's nemesis)'s watch.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

<mod snip> One may or may not leave fingerprints or DNA when they touch something. It depends on how much oil is on the fingertip and if there are skin cells. So it makes perfect sense that Rebecca's fingerprints/DNA were on one knife and not the other.

There is no way anyone other that Rebecca made those prints. The prints and DNA from the ropes were taken from the knots&#8230;and proves Rebecca tied them&#8230;.no one else.

This was a very angry suicide. There is no rational explanation for what Rebecca did, but did it she did. This was no murder, just a woman that was angry and upset with her boyfriend and his ex-wife. I really don't think she cared much at all about Max. It was all about her.

 

[Ausgirl]

The prints and DNA from the ropes were taken from the knots&#8230;and proves Rebecca tied them&#8230;.no one else.

.. how do ya get fingerprints off rope? I'd really like to know.

And it proves nothing. There were gloves present at the scene.