Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

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stmarysmead said:
I’m sorry I don’t agree. These are interpretations, not “facts.” The re-enactment showed the bindings were loose. Maybe she was holding the blade differently before death and it slipped.
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In fairness, and sadly, I believe most of the "facts" in this case can also be labeled "interpretation".
 
Anyone know if any of these questions have been addressed in the trial so far?

1. Did the investigators check to see if Adam's bed showed signs of having been slept in after he told the 911 dispatcher he just woke up?
2. Did Mr. Greer address anything similar to what was revealed on Nancy Grace's (podcast?) when a person very familiar with nautical knots was interviewed? That person basically contradicted Jonah by saying that the comparatively simple knots Rebecca would have known about based on her experience were far simpler knots than those used during the suicide.
3. Were they ever able to approximate the time of death (within a one hour window) -- or was that not possible?
4. Has anyone asked why would someone take a shower if they were immediately contemplating suicide?
 
stmarysmead said:
Isn’t that the plaintiffs expert? Thank you for posting however.
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Yes, it's the plaintiff's expert. The Zahau family are the plaintiffs in this case. Mrs. DeMio was testifying how prints show how Rebecca used the knife to try to cut her bindings off.

The defense in this case is Adam Shacknai, the one accused of murdering Rebecca.

And so far, we still don't have anyone from the defense side explaining how the fingerprints on the knife blade indicate that Rebecca committed suicide. They don't even have a motive.

Can they also explain how RZ would have strangled herself manually before hanging from the balcony?
 
stmarysmead said:
I’m sorry I don’t agree. These are interpretations, not “facts.” The re-enactment showed the bindings were loose. Maybe she was holding the blade differently before death and it slipped.
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Adam testified the bindings were tight and he had to loosen them. That's the word he's used in prior statements until now adjusting his language to he had to "wedge his fingers under them" (watch him demonstrate in his testimony as he shows how he had to work his fingers under there). In his statements to open ended questions directly before taking the polygraph (the most unfiltered, closest in time proximity, thus understood by LE to reflect truth more than later statements that might be more crafted), he says he doesn't remember if she even had ropes on her wrists, he just remembers he had to MOVE something out of the way in order to take her pulse.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppRDQ7yfymg&feature=youtu.be He MOVED the friggin' ropes at her wrists.

The reenactment was play acting. For fun, while you're watching for him to tell how he moved the ropes, also note how he MASSIVELY contradicts his 911 call here, by saying he cut the body down before his call.
 
IMO another very large discrepancy is the knots and how tightly they were tied. To believe the SDSO reenactment, you would have to agree that the knot tying her hands behind her back were loose. They explained that she tied the knots in front first, took her hands out and put them in the same loose knot behind her back.

Enter As who says he had to work to loosen the knots to get his fingers under them to try to feel for a pulse.

Doesn't add up to me. Who's not telling the truth?

eta: sorry for the redundancy Verboten, I think we must have been posting our comments at the same time :)
 
BBL said:
Yes, this is a very good question. I live in this town and I know 100% white glove treatment would have been given to someone living at that address.

IMO, this means that they were told "don't bother". They would have had to have been called off by someone, and I think that somene was JS (through Pfingst in his early involvement at the scene).
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I too live in this town and agree entirely. From day one I was puzzled by why--- at that address---
a naked dead woman was left for hours on the ground as her image was broadcast. The minute I saw P. Pfingst's image on the scene I knew that in one way or another the fix was in. Who could argue that he was not shown more consideration than the victim? So, it troubles me to see on this forum that some find it more important to question the acts and motives of the dead, Rebecca Z., than those in her sphere on her last day, and those that benefit from the disregard.
 
I was just watching ID channel about another case here at Websleuths https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...0-found-murdered-Greenwich-Village-1-Nov-2006.

Two Medical examiner's had said she died by hanging (the NYC ME and another one hired by the family as the family did not believe the NYC report) it was ruled a suicide but even after the two medical examiner's reports, the husband convinced the detectives that she would not have done it. After further investigation they finally found who it was that did the murder.

What the detective said at the very end of the show made me think... he said I tried so hard to solve the case because I didn't want her child to grow up thinking her mother committed suicide.
 
Why has there been no report about the medical examiner's testimony today? Surely court closed hours ago.
 
Ah right local time is 15:50 so maybe I'll have to just be patient.
 
Does anyone know if Mr. Greer has mentioned Rebecca being left exposed yet? I am getting that if not, it was a question he must have asked the ME today. I am really looking forward to updates.
 
Tortoise said:
Why has there been no report about the medical examiner's testimony today? Surely court closed hours ago.
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I think court closes in about 8 minutes. Then there could be off-the-record discussions with judge/plaintiff/defendant on motions, etc. After that, I had found that Greer has graciously stood outside the courtroom with interested parties to discuss things informally. I hope at least one WS person was there so we can get an uncolored version without an interested party's flavor to the day.
 
M. Kay said:
I too live in this town and agree entirely. From day one I was puzzled by why--- at that address---
a naked dead woman was left for hours on the ground as her image was broadcast. The minute I saw P. Pfingst's image on the scene I knew that in one way or another the fix was in. Who could argue that he was not shown more consideration than the victim? So, it troubles me to see on this forum that some find it more important to question the acts and motives of the dead, Rebecca Z., than those in her sphere on her last day, and those that benefit from the disregard.
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BBM. You have stated so beautifully what I believe also. Thank you! I really hope the jury finds this truth also.
 
justice be served said:
I think court closes in about 8 minutes. Then there could be off-the-record discussions with judge/plaintiff/defendant on motions, etc. After that, I had found that Greer has graciously stood outside the courtroom with interested parties to discuss things informally. I hope at least one WS person was there so we can get an uncolored version without an interested party's flavor to the day.
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Yes, I was just puzzled as to why the news has only reported on the knot expert today.
 
Suddenly Rebecca has the proficiency of a knot expert and can produce a knot that she can tighten with her hands behind her back. Give me a break.
 
I would love it if Greer asked the ME to explain who decides whether or not to tent a body, and how it is decided. When LE asked him to come to the scene and he couldn’t get there for hours, wasn’t there some early discussion about how best to preserve the “body of evidence”? Or was he “unexpectedly detained” for hours? Why? By whom? Wasn’t he appalled to find her body still exposed when he arrived? I would also like these questions asked of the first responders and detectives. Were they the same ones who responded to Max’s serious injury? Had they met Rebecca? What did they think when Pfingst showed up? How did the original investigation switch from murder to suicide... when and on what basis?

Will Pfingst be called as a witness?
 
stmarysmead said:
I’m sorry I don’t agree. These are interpretations, not “facts.” The re-enactment showed the bindings were loose. Maybe she was holding the blade differently before death and it slipped.
Click to expand...

The re-enactment failed on several accounts. Because of the position of her legs in rigor it supports evidence given by Philpott that she was hogtied. The bindings were tight, they left marks. Once the line between Rebecca's ankles and wrists were cut, they loosened up. The re-enactment fails to address how little the dust on the railing was disturbed. Rebecca's center of gravity was too low with respect to the height of the railing to go over bound (even if the hog tie is ignored). This was explained through expert testimony in court.
 
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