Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Verboten]

Great points! That would explain the splotchiness of the first S!

Yes, very interesting thoughts, Lezah. Wow. It seems to fit & that would be definitive indication she didn't paint that. I mean, if the tweaking breasts with paint on hands wasn't enough ...

 

[Brit]

The message on the door...Something for consideration...

I have been pondering the message of the door for some time, and how the message was painted. Something wasn’t quite right about it...

I had made an assumption that the two paint brushes found in the room were used to paint the message, the small one initially, for the thinner, first ‘S’ - the other for the thicker stroke lettering. It was the deposit of the paint in that first letter S that stuck in my mind, something about it.

So, a few days ago I saw in evidence that only ONE brush was actually used, the thick one. The smaller one was unused.

This dawned on me this morning...

We know RZ painted regularly, and had done for some time - and we can therefore confidently assume she was relatively familiar with her artists tools and their basic uses, and limitations. She had several tubes of acrylic paint on her ‘painting room’ shelf ( third floor, upstairs from the ‘hanging’ room)

When looking at the door message again, rather than the smaller brush being used for the beginning of the message as I had first thought, this could not be the case. So what was used?

It now appears to me that it was very likely that it was the PAINT TUBE that was used to paint the first letter - ‘S’

The stroke markings, and the ‘gapping’ in the paint is highly consistent with the tube being used. Imagine trying to use it like a pen. As you squeeze the tube a bit of paint comes out, it ‘blobs’ initially, then ‘thins’ through the stroke of application, the surface eventually becoming empty, here is the blank section...then you squeeze it again...and you go through the same process as you apply more paint ...and so on and so forth.

Basically, it’s difficult, and it doesn’t work. ...and I discovered this very, very early on, when first using acrylic in tube form. You use a vessel or a palette to dispense the paint and take it from there.

IMO only someone very unfamiliar with dispensing paint would assume you could use the tube to paint the message.

The layering of the paint in the remainder of the message also indicates to me that the tube was likely used to apply the paint directly to the brush. The texturing and transition / thickness of the paint would be consistent with this as opposed to the use of a palette.

I would hypothesize that whoever painted the message retrieved a tube of paint from upstairs, ( familiar with the house, knowing where to go to get the paint) they grabbed the tube and commenced trying to write the message on the door. Unfamiliar with handling the paint and unaware of the paints viscosity, it was only after painting the first letter they realized it wasn’t going to work, so the went back to the room upstairs and got a brush, in fact they got two, incase one of them did it work, they didnt want to have to go back again...

IMO I think this is key, it goes to RZ knowledge and familiarity of the paint.

She knew more about acrylic than she did about knots....

I am so glad you brought this point up! As someone who works with acrylics myself, I would never think to go directly from the tube. A palette of some kind is def required. In fact I automatically work with a wet paintbrush and work tiny bits of water from the paintbrush a little at a time into the paint to get the consistency required for the paint to be able to go on a canvas or surface smoothly. If you use paint right from the tube it will be a clumpy dry mess. I do this instinctively, especially on a clean dry surface. The paint supplies were readily available, I really think she would’ve done this process as it would make painting on the door quicker and more efficient than trying to get it directly from the tube and as a painter Rebecca would’ve know this. EXCELLENT POINT LEZAH!!!

 

[elfie]

LHK. Decidedly anti-Rebecca board from early investigation. I never joined, but comments conveyed were disheartening at best. (Sorry, forgot to quote.)

 

[Imp]

And what about when the defense (Bremmer) was not allowed to view the crime scene by Jonah unless LE was with them, and then LE refused to go there.

Ah, yes. Another lovely memory.

 

[Imp]

It's got to be obvious to the jury. The question is how much it will matter to them. I know if I were on a jury and saw one side with 9 attorneys and one side with one attorney, I would immediately think "income disparity" and it would make me suspicious of the party with 9 attorneys (whether plaintiff or dependent) from the start.

I just hope the jurors can see that this lawsuit isn't about the money. It's about getting the truth.

I'm hoping the jurors connect the dots and understand the power, influence and money seen in the courtroom during this trial has been working behind the scenes since Rebecca's death.

 

[elfie]

There is something sticking in mind about AS testimony I have not yet mentioned, I wanted to see what you guys think.

It was during cross, his attorney asked him what he was doing immediately before discovering RZ body. He masturbated, had a shower, ( but couldn’t remember in what order) and then his attorney kind of went back and asked about when he was in bed in the morning...

Web - “So you were in the guest house, Its early morning, were you just resting in bed?

AS - “ Yeah. Well, I was kind of killing time...”

Webb- “ so just in bed, kind of killing time, resting....

AS - “ Yeah, just waiting for the light to come”

So, he was Killing time....waiting for the light to come. Humm.

I thought about the times when I have personally used these phrases, and I wonder if you guys have any views on them being used right before the discovery of RZ body?

( FYI I’m paraphrazing the testimony from my recollection and my notes)

This deserves a reference in closing remarks. There is no confirmation that I know of that Adam took Ambien as he claimed. This testimony completely contradicts the original claim.

 

[Imp]

Hmmmm......this actually is not kidnapping, it is relationship drama. Doesn’t sound like she claimed to be kidnapped at all. She went to police to explain that she went back to ex husband and didn’t tell the ex boyfriend.

Thank you for clarifying, Brit.

 

[Imp]

I totally agree. Distancing language. He actually sounds to me like he is saying ‘ got a girl...’ not ‘ I got a girl...’ so he can’t even bring himself to say ‘I’...!

Plus, more information than is required. Saying ‘I just woke up’ is irrelevant, it’s too much information, added on, IMO designed to introduce an alibi.

Yep, and apparently, he didn't just wake up. Sounds like he'd been 'woke for quite awhile, pleasuring himself with some internet , showering, and waiting for the sun to come up (not necessarily in that order). He was a busy dude before discovering Becca.

 

[Imp]

Splotchiness is the perfect description! You said in one word what took me ten!

It's also possible he was trying not to touch more items than necessary, thus attempting to use of the tube as a paintbrush.

 

[Seattle1]

I am so glad you brought this point up! As someone who works with acrylics myself, I would never think to go directly from the tube. A palette of some kind is def required. In fact I automatically work with a wet paintbrush and work tiny bits of water from the paintbrush a little at a time into the paint to get the consistency required for the paint to be able to go on a canvas or surface smoothly. If you use paint right from the tube it will be a clumpy dry mess. I do this instinctively, especially on a clean dry surface. The paint supplies were readily available, I really think she would’ve done this process as it would make painting on the door quicker and more efficient than trying to get it directly from the tube and as a painter Rebecca would’ve know this. EXCELLENT POINT LEZAH!!!

Per last weeks Court ROA, a couple of RZ artwork/paintings were introduced for evidence. My theory is the Defense quickly dismissed their Handwriting Analyst last Friday because they want to use her brush stroke, etc. depicted in her painting to convince jurors that RZ painted message on door. Let's wait and see...

 

[Seattle1]

Does anyone know if today’s testimony will be live-streamed?

As of 10:30A today, there's not been an Order on Media Request to Permit Coverage filed with court.

 

[kittychi]

Huge thanks to everyone who has commented on the latest Tricia-Caitlin Rother interview. (I haven't listened yet but hopefully I'll get a chance later today.) Also huge thanks to *Lash* and her amazing archiving system!

*Lash* ~ post #785 re: Medicis stock after Rebecca's death goes up one side of me and down the other, as it has since 2011. No one will ever convince me this wasn't pivotal to the way RZ's death investigation was handled (or mishandled, to be more precise).

My 2 cents about AS's motive: I know many folks here believe he killed her as retribution for what happened to Max, however, for some reason I just can't buy that AS was so emotionally connected to his family (his dad, brother, or nephew) that it would drive him to seek revenge against RZ. I think he put on a show for the jury, probably after many rehearsals.

What I suspect is that he'd been told by someone, perhaps JS, that the relationship between RZ and JS was on the rocks, and Max's fall on her watch was the final straw. I also think it's possible that's what JS said to her in the voicemail, if he actually left one. (For the record, whatever he allegedly said in the alleged voicemail that RZ allegedly listened to, I don't think for a second it triggered her to commit suicide.)

I do think that AS's perhaps newly acquired knowledge that the relationship between JS and RZ was irretrievably broken might've been all the encouragement he needed to make a pass at her, and when she refused, thinking she was at that point expendable, he assaulted her and the assault got very sexually bizarre and ultimately ended in her death.

There's no way to know when he crossed the line from assault to murder, or even whether he intended it to go that far. Doesn't matter one way or the other, obviously.

AS admitting to LE that he masturbated to on his phone has always struck me as an entirely bizarre detail no person would offer if there was any way in the world to avoid it. Now that we have more evidence of such things as the hogtie and knife handle, imo, the only reason he admitted that was because he was concerned they'd find his semen on something. I'm guessing that while he had the presence of mind to put on gloves and perhaps wipe down surfaces with dryer sheets, he did not wear a condom.

I wonder if RZ's mouth was swabbed? Were all the potential "rape areas" (I'm trying not to name body parts for the sake of any of her friends or family who read here) of her body swabbed?

There's just nothing about the dynamics of this family that convinces me AS would deliberately set out to kill RZ to somehow "honor" his dad or brother. I think the brothers are very self-absorbed, and I think AS simply wanted to satisfy his sexual urges (in all their forms) for RZ.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on motive and I won't wait for change!

BBM: THIS ^^^^^ is a brilliant thought, Imp, IMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

For cripes sake, even Adam could have found a blanket or sheet to cover Rebecca's body. I cannot help thinking that there is a racist component to not taking care of her regarding all parties involved.

Here’s something I find odd. Spreckels is an historic mansion in a very expensive town. Anyone in that town would know that it’s ownership required great wealth. As is often pointed out, the owner was indeed a very rich man. And one assumes a powerful man, a man of influence. So this is not a body found in a homeless encampment or even a middle class subdivision. This is a death...in the mansion of a very wealthy and powerful family.

Since this was just a vacation home, how would the first responders know that this was not the beloved wife of the owner? Why wouldn’t they be extra careful and respectful in today’s litiginous society?

This was a beautiful woman hanging from a upstairs balcony...not even the guest house. I don’t see one bit of racism here...just wonder why they weren’t extra careful considering they were at the home of a powerful multi millionaire? Why did t the “special treatment”begin here? How could they know JS would not be enraged?

 

[Betty P]

Per last weeks Court ROA, a couple of RZ artwork/paintings were introduced for evidence. My theory is the Defense quickly dismissed their Handwriting Analyst last Friday because they want to use her brush stroke, etc. depicted in her painting to convince jurors that RZ painted message on door. Let's wait and see...

The defense will be out of luck when trying to describe how someone used paint smeared directly from the tube to paint the first letter. They'll also need to figure out which chair RZ would have needed to use to paint that high on the door.

The evidence is very heavily stacked against the defense on this one. Maybe they'll just resort to the "Cell Block Tango" argument.

 

[clearskies1]

I think of Rebecca's last days. Living with Jonah, who apparently was dating another woman he would later marry. Being around Jonah's daughter, who apparently rejected her. Being the only adult in charge when Max had the horrific accident, and giving him CPR. Fearing Dina's reaction. Being alone with strange Adam at the house. Bound, sexually assaulted and strangled. Beyond words. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

Makes no difference if it was his wife or the cleaner. She should have been shielded.

 

[stmarysmead]

Makes no difference if it was his wife or the cleaner. She should have been shielded.

I agree.

 

[stmarysmead]

I think of Rebecca's last days. Living with Jonah, who apparently was dating another woman he would later marry. Being around Jonah's daughter, who apparently rejected her. Being the only adult in charge when Max had the horrific accident, and giving him CPR. Fearing Dina's reaction. Being alone with strange Adam at the house. Bound, sexually assaulted and strangled. Beyond words. JMO.

If your last three sentences (phrases) are excluded, this is why the suicide theory remains plausible . I know...not here. But nevertheless, RZ had been under tremendius stress. And innocent or not, an investigation in Max’s accident seemed likely.

 

[Betty P]

If your last three sentences (phrases) are excluded, this is why the suicide theory remains plausible . I know...not here. But nevertheless, RZ had been under tremendius stress. And innocent or not, an investigation in Max’s accident seemed likely.

Really? After all the evidence that's been uncovered and presented at this trial?

Please explain why and how RZ would strip herself naked, gag herself, tightly hogtie herself, then grab the chef's knife in an attempt to cut her own bindings. Then after doing so, wipe the knife handle clean but leave her fingerprints on the blade. TIA

 

[Myvice]

In regards to Max's accident I have always wondered if maybe he hadn't watched something on the internet with his sisters that may have encouraged him to try a new stunt. Couple that with the excitement of going to the zoo once his Dad got back from the gym and you've got a rowdy 6 year old.

I did also wonder why, in light of two very strange things happening at the mansion within days of each other, why there wasn't more thought given to someone from the outside trying to harm the family. It sounds like there really wasn't even a thought to that possibility.

I find that very strange for such a wealthy and prominent family.