Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Betty P]

my question also. everyones I suppose. The issue is SO much bigger if indeed others were there and Rebecca was being asked to lie. That alone would be a game changer. imo. I'm-friggin-o.

I dunno, I thought Keith said it was just Rebecca and her sister. Will have to listen again.

Also very interesting when he says the defense will have to back off their claim that it was suicide and instead say "if it wasn't suicide, it wasn't Adam". JMO, it will be difficult for the defense to make that claim, given the evidence.

ETA for correct wording of Keith Greer's quote.

 

[Waitaminute]

I dunno, I thought Keith said it was just Rebecca and her sister. Will have to listen again.

I thought he did also, but it sounded like he had something else he couldn't say, so he stammered, spoke around it,--it may have been as simple as 'we talked to XZ, and she said...." or "there was a search done' or we checked the flight logs of JS's other kids" or any number of things, but he was speaking carefully so it left some gray area in my mind. maybe not hugely significant, but there was something going on.

What a wonderful kind and generous man he is. You can feel it in everything he does and says. I hope the account gets a lot of support.

 

[Imp]

That’s a good point, I certainly agree with your comment on the quality of the investigation...although the blood I mention was described as dried and smeared on the underside of the feet at the autopsy, and there were no wounds or trauma indentified in this particular area.

( if someone can help me by explaining how to post a picture I would be very grateful!)

Couldn't blood from vaginal/genital trauma and menstrual blood wind up in the same place?

 

[Imp]

This article describes the cross examination of the handwriting expert as :"laborious" and describes the judge as "frustrated".
http://www.cbs8.com/story/37663557/mansion-death-lawsuit-defense-questions-zahau-handwriting-expert

There is also a video clip on which you can hear the judge's frustration as she addresses the witness.

Defense attorney is asking if handrwriting expert looked at other letters and expert says "No". If you're hired as an expert in handwriting, why in the world would you fail to look all the entire alphabet? I don't get that he only looked at certain letters.

Can't answer your question, except to say that not every witness and/or their testimony is a homerun.

And I think, given the extremely common sense, not to mention compelling evidence that Rebecca was hogtied, a "laborious" cross examination and the judge's "frustration," are minor concerns.

I'll also add, because I can't resist: Nice job, SDSO "death investigators."

 

[Imp]

Even after all this time it's not clear to me who was at the mansion when Max fell? Were Jonah's older kids there or just Rebecca, her sister and Max?

Scroll back in this thread and read posts by InParadise (verified Zahau insider). He/she gives his/her opinion on this.

 

[Imp]

Wow. So much great information. Thank you Tricia & Keith Greer.

The validation of our theories on this case has been most gratifying. Anyone can go back in the archives here (I'll see if I can find a few links) where we had long discussions about whether Rebecca had been hog-tied or something similar. Long discussions about lividity, rigor, the lengths of the rope that trailed from her wrists and ankles.

WS members were sort of "gaslighted" for so long on this case, told "what you think you see isn't the reality". From the painted message to the minimal disturbance of dust on the balcony railing to the knots, Rebecca's wounds, the blood in the house to the lack of fingerprints and DNA, we were always told by LE and "others" that we were wrong, imagining things. A lot of people who followed this case dropped out from frustration over this.

I'm guessing a lot of you feel the same as me - a huge sense of relief that we were right about so many aspects of this case. I must say the frustration with this case affected for a long time how I viewed other cases here. I questioned my own judgment a lot of times. It says a lot about the ability of power, money and expert public relations to influence public perception.

I'm also excited to hear that Greer has access to all the phone records of everyone involved. I know he said there isn't much there to indicate anything, but I would still like to examine then. Also can't wait to learn more about Paul Pfingst, when he's ready to reveal that information.

Here's another question for the next time: Was there any significance to the dryer sheets found in the death room? Someone speculated ages ago that they could have been used to wipe down the crime scene, that they would be effective in removing fingerprints, etc.

So, yeah, big sigh of relief from me today. I feel so much better for all of us that we were right on the hog tying, etc. Sometimes obsessing about a problematic case is the right thing to do.

Thanks again, Tricia and Keith! I'm making another donation to the Go Fund Me effort.

Agree with every word, Betty P.

BBM: This is a huge stretch, but dryer sheets are also very effective for wiping bugs and other stuck-on stuff off cars, RVs ... possibly boats.

 

[Imp]

I dunno, I thought Keith said it was just Rebecca and her sister. Will have to listen again.

Also very interesting when he says the defense will have to back off their claim that it was suicide and instead say "if it wasn't suicide, it wasn't Adam". JMO, it will be difficult for the defense to make that claim, given the evidence.

ETA for correct wording of Keith Greer's quote.

If it wasn't suicide, and it wasn't Adam, then the case needs to be re-opened, eh?

 

[Mica]

If it wasn't suicide, and it wasn't Adam, then the case needs to be re-opened, eh?

Great point, Imp!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Agree with every word, Betty P.

BBM: This is a huge stretch, but dryer sheets are also very effective for wiping bugs and other stuck-on stuff off cars, RVs ... possibly boats.

Where could her clothes be that she was wearing earlier that day when seen by others, but has never been found? That to me is a biggie which I question.

 

[Betty P]

Where could her clothes be that she was wearing earlier that day when seen by others, but has never been found? That to me is a biggie which I question.

Probably disposed of elsewhere, away from the mansion or kept as a souvenir? Perhaps the killer feared their DNA was present?

 

[Invisible]

Yes, they are on trial too.

Can't answer your question, except to say that not every witness and/or their testimony is a homerun.

And I think, given the extremely common sense, not to mention compelling evidence that Rebecca was hogtied, a "laborious" cross examination and the judge's "frustration," are minor concerns.

I'll also add, because I can't resist: Nice job, SDSO "death investigators."

 

[Imp]

Where could her clothes be that she was wearing earlier that day when seen by others, but has never been found? That to me is a biggie which I question.

Yep. Her clothes seem to be another evidence casualty of the "investigation."

 

[Betty P]

Yes, they are on trial too.

Just for grins, here's a link to a 2011 SDSO statement answering FAQ's about evidence in the RZ case:

https://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

I have to admit, it's amazing the skill involved in avoiding discussion of evidence they didn't test while cherry-picking answers for the evidence they did test. It's really masterful. Here's a good example where they're discussing the DNA and fingerprint evidence on the knives:

Were there prints and DNA on the knives?

The small knife had Rebecca’s DNA, and only Rebecca’s DNA. No fingerprints were developed from this item. The large knife had Rebecca’s fingerprints, and only Rebecca’s fingerprints. A low level of DNA material was found on this knife as well, but it was not enough for any comparison.

They completely skirt the issue of where RZ's fingerprints were located on the big knife. They left that information out so the public would assume her prints were found on the handle

Were there prints and DNA on the rope?

Rebecca’s DNA was found on the rope, particularly in areas that would have to be manipulated to tie the knots. Only Rebecca’s DNA was found on these items other than one “artifact,” which is a fragment of material that could be DNA, but does not contain enough information to determine who, or what, it came from (animals and plants also have DNA that can be left behind). The rope could not be fingerprinted.

No mention of the fact (though it came out in follow up) that the SDSO tech only tested 10 spots on the rope located near the bindings. No testing was done on the rest of the rope, including the area near where Adam allegedly cut her loose after finding her hanging. So when they say "Adam's DNA wasn't found anywhere at the crime scene" it's because

1 Adam was probably wearing the gloves found at the crime scene

2 SDSO never tested evidence in areas where Adam's DNA might have showed up.

Comparing this FAQ answer sheet with what the evidence now shows should be enough to get a new independent criminal investigation. No wonder it took them so long to hold the PC to reveal their conclusions. They probably spent most of the time figuring out how to spin the results.

ETA: Relevant old thread for that discussion.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?183224-Evidence-not-tested

 

[Seattle1]

Where could her clothes be that she was wearing earlier that day when seen by others, but has never been found? That to me is a biggie which I question.

IMO, the question of Rebecca's missing clothes is similar to whether or not there were more than 2 people present at the mansion when Max fatally injured. I don't believe we know for certain what RZ was wearing. It's alleged she was last seen wearing a sequined, horizontal stripe tank dress (per photograph on Zena phone??). HOWEVER, later depositions and Dr Wecht's autopsy appear to describe the same as RZ burial dress! (Reference AS Defense 12/5/17 subpoena).

IMO, these two mysteries will not be asked and/or answered in this trial.

 

[M. Kay]

Regarding BBM.....listen to Tricia’s most recent podcast

https://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag/keith-greer-short-interview-3-7-18

Also, Dr. Wecht is due to testify on Monday.

Sincere thanks to this poster for bringing attention to interview link;-- and to Tricia for being well prepared to bring out updated information. Listening has inspired me about what we do together! A dedicated account matters for effective legal representation in this case, so I donated for ten of us:. the modest 5$ minimum could help bring justice to the family of Rebecca Zahau...and San Diego. Thinking how much we want truth known now!

 

[vlpate]

Just for grins, here's a link to a 2011 SDSO statement answering FAQ's about evidence in the RZ case:

https://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

I have to admit, it's amazing the skill involved in avoiding discussion of evidence they didn't test while cherry-picking answers for the evidence they did test. It's really masterful. Here's a good example where they're discussing the DNA and fingerprint evidence on the knives:



They completely skirt the issue of where RZ's fingerprints were located on the big knife. They left that information out so the public would assume her prints were found on the handle




No mention of the fact (though it came out in follow up) that the SDSO tech only tested 10 spots on the rope located near the bindings. No testing was done on the rest of the rope, including the area near where Adam allegedly cut her loose after finding her hanging. So when they say "Adam's DNA wasn't found anywhere at the crime scene" it's because

1 Adam was probably wearing the gloves found at the crime scene

2 SDSO never tested evidence in areas where Adam's DNA might have showed up.

Comparing this FAQ answer sheet with what the evidence now shows should be enough to get a new independent criminal investigation. No wonder it took them so long to hold the PC to reveal their conclusions. They probably spent most of the time figuring out how to spin the results.

ETA: Relevant old thread for that discussion.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?183224-Evidence-not-tested

Why would they test the rope where Adam admitted to touching it?

 

[*Lash*]

Day 6 of the civil trial for the wrongful death of Rebecca Zahau

San Diego Union Tribune

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180308-photogallery.html

 

[Imp]

Why would they test the rope where Adam admitted to touching it?

Interesting! My question is, why didn't they test every inch of every rope?

This was a spectacular crime scene, as crime scenes go, especially on the heels of an accident scene in the same home days before in which a 6-year-old was (as it turned out) mortally injured. Given these facts, one would think the investigators would err on the side of extreme caution and collect and test, at the very least, everything associated with the crime scene itself. I suppose someone could make a case that there was no need to test the underwear found in the trash in the guest house where Adam was staying (because *someone* told SDSO the panties belonged to a friend of one of the Shacknai children), however, to not fully test the actual items found with and on the body?

WTH?

 

[nanwv]

Finished listening to Tricia & Greer's awesome interview. Considering the strange investigation of this crime, any chance, when this trial is over, Rebecca's family could go after the SDSO for compensation? Rebecca's family could be any one of us "common folk". The emotional toll is one thing, but the financial one is just as cruel. If her family has been going through this prolonged torture, on part, because of SDSO's incompetence and/or "something else", they should pay. . . literally.

 

[Betty P]

Interesting! My question is, why didn't they test every inch of every rope?

This was a spectacular crime scene, as crime scenes go, especially on the heels of an accident scene in the same home days before in which a 6-year-old was (as it turned out) mortally injured. Given these facts, one would think the investigators would err on the side of extreme caution and collect and test, at the very least, everything associated with the crime scene itself. I suppose someone could make a case that there was no need to test the underwear found in the trash in the guest house where Adam was staying (because *someone* told SDSO the panties belonged to a friend of one of the Shacknai children), however, to not fully test the actual items found with and on the body?

WTH?

Yes, they should have at least sampled spots all along the rope, especially when they were alleging that RZ did all the measuring, cutting and tying herself.

They should have also sampled the area where Adam alleged he cut her down just to verify that he was telling the truth. That's kind of what you're supposed to do in a homicide investigation - test evidence to verify the accuracy of key witness statements. Adam was the only person with RZ when she died and was the only one alleged to be there when she was cut down. Everything he said needed to be verified.