WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

[branmuffin]

Hello, I'm new here. I've known about this case for several years. Its certainly interesting. I have some thoughts I'd like to share.
1. If John and George Jr. passed through the bedroom where the children were sleeping, why did they not grab them and carry them out. At least the younger ones. That would be my first thought, not just shaking them.
2. There are reports of a car or cars with Florida license plates seen in the area. It was Christmas but people at that time didn't take long trips during the holidays. And even though Jennie's brother lived in Florida there was no mention of him being in the area for a visit. It was cold and snowy in West Virginia so I just can't see someone from Florida going there for no reason.
3. The young man in Houston telling the woman he was Louis Sodder. When George and his son in law went to Texas and met with two young men who denied being the boys, the son in law said the oldest bore a strong resemblance to the family.
4. The photo mailed to Jennie. You could make up a string of numbers all day and what's the chance of them being the postal code of Palermo?

I live in Florida and if I can eventually travel to Cortez, where Jennie's brother lived, I would love to do some investigating. I think there's a strong chance these children were not in that fire. Another point- my son and my daughter both live in two story homes. When the kids go up or down the stairs it makes a lot of noise, even one child. Children don't move quietly and the fact that it was Christmas would mean they were very excited. I think at least one person would have woken up and heard them.

I think a lot of people's idea of what a house on fire looks like is based on movies they see. We see people waking up in a house with the drapes on fire and ceiling beams dropping on them even though the fire isn't fully engaged.

The reality is that 50 - 80 percent of fire victims have succumbed to smoke inhalation before the flames get to them. So if we understand that the Sodder home was a shotgun style where the upper 'room' where the younger children slept was really just a large open space at the top of the stairs with no door, then it's possible all those children were already dead from smoke inhalation when the mother realized the house was on fire.

Fire investigations back then probably weren't as sophisticated as they are now plus at the time the fire responders' main preoccupation was locating the children. Any attempt at locating the source and any flammables that could have accelerated the burn would have taken a back seat.

And based on anecdotal information the Sodder home had barrels of oil in the general area. If those oil barrels had ignited the smoke would have been black. If the door to the boys' bedroom was closed, the deadly smoke was probably slow in coming into the room. Just imagine the boys waking up to their mother's screams. They'd be disoriented, choking on smoke, in the dark. Opening the door to the bedroom would have had the effect of opening a flue, with a rush of hot searing gas and smoke. I think under those circumstances any of the surviving children would have been focused on saving themselves.

As for the cars with Florida plates, why would they be suspicious? Even as far back as the 20s and 30s, Florida was the destination of retirees. If people back in the 1940s were going to Florida like they do now, it would make sense for the people from Florida (usually the grandparents) to come back for the holidays rather than multiple children and their families go to Florida. Considering a large portion of the population in that part of WV were of Italian descent I don't think it is suspicious, at all.

As for the drunken guy stating he was Louis Sodder. If he was, why wouldn't he go and put an end to his parents misery instead of telling a total stranger? When his dad and brother tracked him down why didn't he fess up? It seems to me that scams and misdirection aren't just a curiosity of the computer age, it's been happening for a long time. e.g. Anastasia Romanov

 

[Ozoner]

Hello Ozoner,
I listened to the podcast interview with Jennie Henthorn today. She said that "Frankie" was Louis nickname for Maurice. On the back of the photo it said "I love brother Frankie ". Of course the family knew this. And probably kids and teachers at school. But I am very doubtful that grown ups in the area knew this. If the photo was a hoax, how would the person have this knowledge?
As for the young man not looking like young Louis, many things can change a person's looks, malnutrition, illness, being in the sun, drug and alcohol use, etc... So I just don't think the photo is a hoax.

Jennie may be falling prey to wishful thinking.

It's true that faces can change, but some things about a face don't change, like the shape of the mouth, the shape of the ears, and the spacing of the eyes.

It is a certainty that the man in the photo is not Louis.

The only possible mystery in this case is how the fire started: it may well have been arson.

As for the children, they were quite possibly all but cremated in the fire. Some partial remains were allegedly found and buried, but there probably wasn't much to find.

 

[Grammy27]

I'm a bit confused as to the layout of the upstairs rooms. If John passed through the room and shook the children was he asleep in an adjoining room? My grandparents had a house like that. You went in from the kitchen, and could go through that bedroom to another. So the only way out was through the first bedroom. If the children were asleep in an attic with no door, then I could see how smoke may have gotten to them first.

 

[ColyH]

Hello, I'm new here. I've known about this case for several years. Its certainly interesting. I have some thoughts I'd like to share.
1. If John and George Jr. passed through the bedroom where the children were sleeping, why did they not grab them and carry them out. At least the younger ones. That would be my first thought, not just shaking them.
2. There are reports of a car or cars with Florida license plates seen in the area. It was Christmas but people at that time didn't take long trips during the holidays. And even though Jennie's brother lived in Florida there was no mention of him being in the area for a visit. It was cold and snowy in West Virginia so I just can't see someone from Florida going there for no reason.
3. The young man in Houston telling the woman he was Louis Sodder. When George and his son in law went to Texas and met with two young men who denied being the boys, the son in law said the oldest bore a strong resemblance to the family.
4. The photo mailed to Jennie. You could make up a string of numbers all day and what's the chance of them being the postal code of Palermo?

I live in Florida and if I can eventually travel to Cortez, where Jennie's brother lived, I would love to do some investigating. I think there's a strong chance these children were not in that fire. Another point- my son and my daughter both live in two story homes. When the kids go up or down the stairs it makes a lot of noise, even one child. Children don't move quietly and the fact that it was Christmas would mean they were very excited. I think at least one person would have woken up and heard them.

1. Smoke inhalation can overtake you fast. Firefighters at the scene of the Cocoanut Grove fire said that some of the corpses of people who had died of smoke inhalation were still sitting at their tables like nothing had happened. John was the last to see the kids and if he thought they were still alive I am sure he would have grabbed them.
2. I went for a drive yesterday and I could not tell you what license plates I saw except for the ones from my own state. I really don't believe all the sightings of a car with Florida license plates because how would somebody even remember that.
3. That was probably just drunk talk. I am sure the guy was startled out of his mind when George showed up and asked him if he was Louis.
4. That is not a photo of Louis and doesn't even look like him. I know someone mentioned that Louis called Maurice "Frankie" but this photo showed up at the Sodder home right after a popular magazine posted an article about the fire. I wonder if that bit of information wasn't in the article.

I went to classmates.com and tried to look for a yearbooks in the Cortez area for the years 1945-1955 but couldn't find anything. If you go maybe you could look up yearbooks there and see if you find anything.

 

[Grammy27]

I live in Florida and hopefully can make a trip to Cortez to look in the library's local history room. If there are still Cipriani family in the area, might find some and see what they have to say. There was one school in Cortez until 1961. I think now all students go to school in Bradenton. I will do a search on Facebook of Bradenton high school. Not sure if it's because I live in Florida, but I think that angle is worth checking out.

 

[ColyH]

Hello Ozoner,
I listened to the podcast interview with Jennie Henthorn today. She said that "Frankie" was Louis nickname for Maurice. On the back of the photo it said "I love brother Frankie ". Of course the family knew this. And probably kids and teachers at school. But I am very doubtful that grown ups in the area knew this. If the photo was a hoax, how would the person have this knowledge?
As for the young man not looking like young Louis, many things can change a person's looks, malnutrition, illness, being in the sun, drug and alcohol use, etc... So I just don't think the photo is a hoax.

I just listened to the podcast and one thing that Jennie said that jumped out at me is that the life insurance salesman told George that he needed to buy life insurance for his kids and they found that suspicious. Every other version I have heard of this story is the salesman screaming at George about his kids paying for his remarks about Mussolini. A member of the Sodder family says otherwise.

It is a known fact that when a crime occurs the evidence and witness testimony collected early on is usually the most accurate. A lot has come out years after the fire like eyewitnesses claiming to see the children and a man following them home from school that I have a hard time believing. The other thing I have often heard connected to this case was that George had a falling out with the coal mining companies that he delivered supplies to and they may have had something to do with the fire. When I really looked into this case I found that George wasn't even doing business with the coal mining companies at the time and was only delivering to grocery stores and hardware stores.

 

[Grammy27]

One thing I'm thinking about. If John and George Jr. went to bed while the children were still in the living room playing, when they heard mom calling for them perhaps they assumed the kids were still downstairs and were already outside. It was total confusion. I've read that autistic people will think I that the last thing is still the thing. For example, if an autistic person locks the backdoor and doesn't use that door for two days, they will be surprised to find it unlocked. In their mind only what they did is what is true. Doesn't occur to the person that someone else who lives there unlocked the door. I'm not saying they were autistic, just that the last truth (the kids are downstairs) was the truth when they awoke. That's the only way I can wrap my head around why they didn't bring the kids down. Just thinking of all possibilities.

 

[Ninja Bunny]

Listened to a podcast on this case and I think they all died in the fire that night. The smoke and the poisoned and heated gases released during a fire can overwhelm a person shockingly fast. In the Station Nightclub fire 96 people went from having a great time to dead within 90 seconds (four more died at the hospital).

 

[Grammy27]

Ninja bunny, anything is possible. I'd love to know the truth.

 

[thejeangenie]

Dead in the fire.

 

[Grammy27]

I was able to look into Manatee county records and have an address for a Cipriani family member. May not be the address anymore, but I will write to see if he is willing to write back or call me. I think he is the grandson of Jennies brother. I'm curious as to whether this branch of the family knows anything.

 

[Richard]

Story and photos at link...

The Mysterious and Unknown Fate of the Sodder Children

 

[Grammy27]

Unfortunately the letter I sent to Michael Cipriani in manatee county came back. I don't have another address to try. Still planning to make a trip down to look through the local history library. Have to wait for things to open back up.

 

[Richard]

This December 2020 will mark the 75 year anniversary of this tragedy.

 

[branmuffin]

I wish the county would dig up the site of the fire and go through everything using the most up to date technology. I believe all those kids died in the fire and that evidence could be unearthed to put an end to the mystery.

 

[ColyH]

It would put an end to the mystery however I don't think the people living there now wants their property torn up.

 

[FireFox69]

What an interesting story after 70 years passed. I would also like to know the truth what really happened. Surely all children were alive after the fire.

The Sodder Children of Fayetteville: Revisiting a Local Mystery 70 Years Later

 

[Richard]

A wanted poster for the five Sodder children assumed to have perished in the fire.

LINK:
Baffling Christmas mystery: What happened to the Sodder children?

 

[FireFox69]

There are too many coincidences and strange things in the events. The five missing children were no longer in the house during the fire (when the fire broke out). The children were left up to play by the mother to sleep with the youngest child. This seems like a clear case when looking at the events as a whole before and after the fire and the disappearance of children.

If the FBI had been allowed to investigate the events, they would have found the culprits and possibly the kidnappers as well. It is much possible that the children were first in Florida with relatives (George’s brother’s family). I think the names of the children have been changed. The children have been sold or taken abroad, presumably back to Italy (far enough from America) that no children will be found.

It should be long enough since the children disappeared that no one needs to protect anyone or hide anything anymore. Soon after 75 years, it’s time for the truth to find out what really happened that night. Many executives have died. Still, some of the children are still possibly alive. They may also in due course tell (reveal) to their children and other relatives their true identities.

 

[FireFox69]

The thought of a letter with a picture of Louis came to mind. When George received the letter it was opened and sealed. The original unopened letter must have been more than just a picture. The Sodder family has continued to be followed after the tragic events. Could "Frankie" be Louis' new changed name in his new life?