Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #88

[Cedars]

No one should ever feel ashamed to pursue a Civil Claim [Tort] if their attorney feels they have a case.

RSBM

Unfortunately, it is always in some attorney's personal interest to urge their clients to file a claim, because of the benefit to themselves in terms of fees. These things are make-work projects for lawyers.

They also consume enormous resouces of the taxpayer-funded court system. Not just the costs of staff, but also their time. There aren't an infinite number of judges to sit over prolonged trials that involve the details of whether someone should or should not have made a phone call. There are massive numbers of cases involving awards for death and medical insurance payouts demanding attention, too.

Theoretically, the loser of a case will have to pay court costs, but when innumerable appeals are available, those can go unpaid for years, and perhaps never be paid, if the loser is driven into bankruptcy.

Florida has reformed their tort law to try to streamline the system. As a result, just before the law came into effect last year, vast numbers of filings were made, resulting in an overwhelming load of cases to now be worked through. As Lawyers Warned, Florida Courts Flooded with Suits Before Tort-Reform Bill Signed

IMO, there is 'public interest', in terms of entertainment value, but there is also 'public interest' in terms of the larger issues of how can the system keep functioning.

JMO

 

[housewife]

Can we now expect charges against the Laundries for impeding the search by withholding info?
They consumed enormous resouces of taxpayer-funded law enforcement. Not just the costs of staff, but also the time searching.
I'm quoting some of CL's depo here:

This part of CL's depo confused me. He said he knew Brian was in Jackson the last time they spoke. But the Laundrie camp didn't reveal that to police and allowed the search to continue.
__
Q. Did he ever tell you where Gabby was?
A. No.
Q. But the last place that -- strike that. The place that he was when he told you that she was gone was in Jackson?
A. That's all he said. That I know.
Q. Did you ever disclose to anyone that the last place you spoke to Brian was in Jackson?
A. I told my attorney.
__
Q. When you saw that there was a search in Grand Teton National Park did you check to see if that was anywhere near Jackson?
A. No, I didn't.
__
Q. And is Grand Teton National Park near Jackson, Wyoming, where Brian was when he contacted you?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did you say, hey, maybe you should look in the Jackson area, maybe not Grand Teton National Park?
A. I didn't say anything to anyone.

 

[NCWatcher]

Can we now expect charges against the Laundries for impeding the search by withholding info?
They consumed enormous resouces of taxpayer-funded law enforcement. Not just the costs of staff, but also the time searching.
I'm quoting some of CL's depo here:

I seriously doubt any charges will ever be brought. Citizens can't lie to LE if questioned but fortunately, there is no general requirement that we provide information to LE either. Since failure to volunteer information to the police isn't a crime, I'm not sure what the L's could be charged with concerning the search (or even where they could be charged.) And if they were going to be charged with anything, I'd think it would have happened years ago.

Many months ago there was lots of discussion here about aiding & abetting. But for a defendant to be convicted of aiding and abetting in Florida (leaving aside the issue of the L's being B's parents & what that means legally in FL) the state prosecutor must prove ALL of the following beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. The principal committed the offense.
2. The defendant assisted the principal (before or after).
3. The defendant knew the principal committed the crime (after the fact).
4. The defendant helped the principal avoid or escape detection, arrest, trial, or punishment.

Aiding and Abetting in Florida - Golden Key Law Group, PLLC

Need to learn more about aiding and abetting in Florida? Read this article to learn about Florida law on aiding and abetting and what defense you may have.

www.goldenkeylawgroup.com

In my opinion that charge could never have been proven BARD.
MOO

 

[al66pine]

Finding "asap." Who “Robbed?” GP’s Parents of Cradling/Kissing Goodbye? CL, RL, Atty?

Bbm, they all did. If they had called LE, called the Petito and Schmidts, etc etc LE may have found her asap. Jmo

@DFWNF
Did CL, RL, or Atty's silence or stmts (or non-disclosures, or allegedly misleading stmts, however characterized, even if actually big fat lies) preclude JP & NS from a cradling/kissing goodbye w GP? No, imo, it was BL & only BL, whose action of killing Gabby precluded that (or “robbed” JP & NS of that chance).

Once LE is aware of remains found in in a circumstance like this, the site is treated a CRIME SCENE with a SUSPICIOUS DEATH & remains are transported for an AUTOPSY. Not a bedside scene w loving family gathered round in home or hospital like in a Hallmark movie.

@NCWatcher noted yesterday, if BL told his parents about GP’s death & location of remains, & if his parents relayed info to GP’s parents; & if they immed'ly rushed to WY, GP’s parents would not have had an opportunity for a cradling/kissing goodbye, not w condition of remains after PASSAGE OF TWO OR THREE DAYS post death. <----My paraphrasing of post by @NCWatcher, hoping I did not bungle up intended meaning.

But it’s not just days passing that precluded the cradling/kissing goodbye. Here’s a waaay far out HYPOTHETICAL to illustrate that finding remains “asap” would not have allowed G0’s parents a cradling/kissing goodbye, even, say an hour after discovery of remains.

HYPO. A Teton County deputy sheriff, a St. of WY. AG - Division of Criminal Investigation employee, a Spec.Ag. of FBI's local field office, and an area physician are friends having a picnic on day off.
After the get together ends, one of them walking the 100 ft. from table to his car, sees a body on ground & draws closer. It’s still a bit warm but has no respiration and bears strangulation marks on neck & signs of blunt force trauma on head. He summons the others, "calls it in;" and the doctor verifies death; They take preliminary steps to preserve the scene.
10 min. or one hour (or pick a time) after discovery of remains, GP's parents also in park/forest are driving along (maybe they were magically teleported? IDK), and their car as well as other traffic is blocked by the cordon of emergency vehicles. They learn that Gabby's remains are there & ask LEOs for permission to say goodbye.

Would LEOs already on scene or others assigned to case allow JP & NS a cradling/kissing "goodbye" then & there? It's a CRIME SCENE w. a SUSPICIOUS DEATH; remains are transported for an AUTOPSY. No CONTAMINATING the remains, not even on SAME DAY, not even parents to say goodbye. Imo. End Hypothetical.

Return to Real Life.
After killing GP, NO calls that BL could have made to anyone, and no calls that CL, RL, or Bertolino could have made to JP, NS, Bertolino, or to LE anywhere could prevented GP's parents from being "robbed" of that kind of goodbye. CL, RL, & Bertolino's silence or stmts had no effect. ALL BL's fault. Imo.

 

[NCWatcher]

Finding "asap." Who “Robbed?” GP’s Parents of Cradling/Kissing Goodbye? CL, RL, Atty?

@DFWNF
Did CL, RL, or Atty's silence or stmts (or non-disclosures, or allegedly misleading stmts, however characterized, even if actually big fat lies) preclude JP & NS from a cradling/kissing goodbye w GP? No, imo, it was BL & only BL, whose action of killing Gabby precluded that (or “robbed” JP & NS of that chance).

Once LE is aware of remains found in in a circumstance like this, the site is treated a CRIME SCENE with a SUSPICIOUS DEATH & remains are transported for an AUTOPSY. Not a bedside scene w loving family gathered round in home or hospital like in a Hallmark movie.

@NCWatcher noted yesterday, if BL told his parents about GP’s death & location of remains, & if his parents relayed info to GP’s parents; & if they immed'ly rushed to WY, GP’s parents would not have had an opportunity for a cradling/kissing goodbye, not w condition of remains after PASSAGE OF TWO OR THREE DAYS post death. <----My paraphrasing of post by @NCWatcher, hoping I did not bungle up intended meaning.

But it’s not just days passing that precluded the cradling/kissing goodbye. Here’s a waaay far out HYPOTHETICAL to illustrate that finding remains “asap” would not have allowed G0’s parents a cradling/kissing goodbye, even, say an hour after discovery of remains.

HYPO. A Teton County deputy sheriff, a St. of WY. AG - Division of Criminal Investigation employee, a Spec.Ag. of FBI's local field office, and an area physician are friends having a picnic on day off.
After the get together ends, one of them walking the 100 ft. from table to his car, sees a body on ground & draws closer. It’s still a bit warm but has no respiration and bears strangulation marks on neck & signs of blunt force trauma on head. He summons the others, "calls it in;" and the doctor verifies death; They take preliminary steps to preserve the scene.
10 min. or one hour (or pick a time) after discovery of remains, GP's parents also in park/forest are driving along (maybe they were magically teleported? IDK), and their car as well as other traffic is blocked by the cordon of emergency vehicles. They learn that Gabby's remains are there & ask LEOs for permission to say goodbye.

Would LEOs already on scene or others assigned to case allow JP & NS a cradling/kissing "goodbye" then & there? It's a CRIME SCENE w. a SUSPICIOUS DEATH; remains are transported for an AUTOPSY. No CONTAMINATING the remains, not even on SAME DAY, not even parents to say goodbye. Imo.
End Hypothetical.

Return to Real Life.
After killing GP, NO calls that BL could have made to anyone, and no calls that CL, RL, or Bertolino could have made to JP, NS, Bertolino, or to LE anywhere could prevented GP's parents from being "robbed" of that kind of goodbye. Imo.

Excellent points. I had focused only on the time issue as that seemed to be what was being raised in the post I replied to. The Laundries didn't talk to BL (it's believed) until 2 days after he killed GP. So even IF the L's had known from the call he had killed her (I don't think they did) her body had already deteriorated outdoors. It was summer, after all. And her body was all the way across the country from her relatives.

But you are quite right an even bigger issue is that it was a crime scene. Contamination of that scene (and GP's body) by allowing relatives to cradle and kiss GP wouldn't have been permitted, no matter what the Laundries did or didn't do.
MOO

 

[GRT]

Can we now expect charges against the Laundries for impeding the search by withholding info?
They consumed enormous resouces of taxpayer-funded law enforcement. Not just the costs of staff, but also the time searching.
I'm quoting some of CL's depo here:

Only time will tell, but my guess is that no charges will be forthcoming.

Generally, individuals are not legally required to report suspicions or beliefs about a crime unless they are under specific legal obligations to do so, such as mandatory reporting laws for certain crimes like child abuse.

I could see charging the L's if they hid Brian in a room under the floor or something--but by the time LE started searching for him--he was dead, and his parents kept pointing LE to the swamp where he was eventually found--thanks to them. It was kind of odd that LE didn't find his body right away. That wasn't really the Laundrie's fault.

I think one of the toughest things for us to accept is that no one really *paid* for Gabby's murder, but to my mind, the only one responsible was Brian.

I feel equally bad for both sets of parents.

I'm just glad it's over for both of them. Finally. Life will never go back to normal for the Ps or the Ls.

 

[DFWNF]

Finding "asap." Who “Robbed?” GP’s Parents of Cradling/Kissing Goodbye? CL, RL, Atty?

@DFWNF
Did CL, RL, or Atty's silence or stmts (or non-disclosures, or allegedly misleading stmts, however characterized, even if actually big fat lies) preclude JP & NS from a cradling/kissing goodbye w GP? No, imo, it was BL & only BL, whose action of killing Gabby precluded that (or “robbed” JP & NS of that chance).

Once LE is aware of remains found in in a circumstance like this, the site is treated a CRIME SCENE with a SUSPICIOUS DEATH & remains are transported for an AUTOPSY. Not a bedside scene w loving family gathered round in home or hospital like in a Hallmark movie.

@NCWatcher noted yesterday, if BL told his parents about GP’s death & location of remains, & if his parents relayed info to GP’s parents; & if they immed'ly rushed to WY, GP’s parents would not have had an opportunity for a cradling/kissing goodbye, not w condition of remains after PASSAGE OF TWO OR THREE DAYS post death. <----My paraphrasing of post by @NCWatcher, hoping I did not bungle up intended meaning.

But it’s not just days passing that precluded the cradling/kissing goodbye. Here’s a waaay far out HYPOTHETICAL to illustrate that finding remains “asap” would not have allowed G0’s parents a cradling/kissing goodbye, even, say an hour after discovery of remains.

HYPO. A Teton County deputy sheriff, a St. of WY. AG - Division of Criminal Investigation employee, a Spec.Ag. of FBI's local field office, and an area physician are friends having a picnic on day off.
After the get together ends, one of them walking the 100 ft. from table to his car, sees a body on ground & draws closer. It’s still a bit warm but has no respiration and bears strangulation marks on neck & signs of blunt force trauma on head. He summons the others, "calls it in;" and the doctor verifies death; They take preliminary steps to preserve the scene.
10 min. or one hour (or pick a time) after discovery of remains, GP's parents also in park/forest are driving along (maybe they were magically teleported? IDK), and their car as well as other traffic is blocked by the cordon of emergency vehicles. They learn that Gabby's remains are there & ask LEOs for permission to say goodbye.

Would LEOs already on scene or others assigned to case allow JP & NS a cradling/kissing "goodbye" then & there? It's a CRIME SCENE w. a SUSPICIOUS DEATH; remains are transported for an AUTOPSY. No CONTAMINATING the remains, not even on SAME DAY, not even parents to say goodbye. Imo. End Hypothetical.

Return to Real Life.
After killing GP, NO calls that BL could have made to anyone, and no calls that CL, RL, or Bertolino could have made to JP, NS, Bertolino, or to LE anywhere could prevented GP's parents from being "robbed" of that kind of goodbye. CL, RL, & Bertolino's silence or stmts had no effect. ALL BL's fault. Imo.

All four robbed them of it.. As I said, agree to disagree. I will not respond to this again.

 

[Gardenista]

I'm happy the Petitos and Schmidts got some answers from the Laundries. It's a shame it took a lawsuit, but ultimately it worked. My guess is they didn't get that apology they were looking for, hopefully I'm wrong. RIP Gabby

 

[arielilane]

JUST IN: #GabbyPetito's family says they have obtained answers through depositions and their focus now shifts to spending time with their families and fostering @gabbsfoundation. They will not be doing any interviews, they add.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760733591162769460

 

[al66pine]

Finding Remains "asap." Autopsy.

.... If they had called LE, called the Petito and Schmidts, etc etc LE may have found her asap. Jmo

Snipped
Did CL, RL, or Bertolino have specific FACTUAL info (which could have come only from BL) about location of GP's remains?
IDK & am not guessing about whether they did or did not.
IF they did, and if they had notified LE, it's possible or likely discovery would have been sooner.

As to a potentially earlier discovery, it might have provided Med. Examiner w more data for conclusions in AUTOPSY report.
But even w delayed discovery, conditions of remains were sufficient for ME to make ID & to determine:
- CoD = blunt-force injuries to head & neck, w manual strangulation, and
- MoD = homicide.

Sad, sad, sad, esp'ly since there was no crim prosecution of BL, an outcome he brought about by his suicide.

 

[housewife]

JUST IN: #GabbyPetito's family says they have obtained answers through depositions and

So the only info the Petitos received was from the depositions alone. IMHO Sounds like the mediation wasn't helpful at all for Gabby's family! The additional info of how and when their daughter was murdered will forever be withheld from them.

 

[RANCH]

So the only info the Petitos received was from the depositions alone. IMHO Sounds like the mediation wasn't helpful at all for Gabby's family! The additional info of how and when their daughter was murdered will forever be withheld from them.

We don't know what Gabby's family learned through the mediation since it's confidential.

One thing learned from the depositions is that Laundries said they didn't know Gabby was dead or where her body was.

That probably was a factor in why there was a settlement in this case. The "gone" equals "dead" argument was just too weak. JMO.

 

[ch_13]

Snipped
Did CL, RL, or Bertolino have specific FACTUAL info (which could have come only from BL) about location of GP's remains?
IDK & am not guessing about whether they did or did not.

I think there's some proof that at least Bertolino did.

In addition to hiring lawyers for BL out of Laramie (in the southern part of the state), Bertolino also spoke with a public defender out of Teton County. Of course, Gabby was killed in Teton County, which is very large in land mass but sparsely populated. Mostly it contains federal parkland as well as the tourist town and ski resort of Jackson, WY.

Why Teton when it was so remote, and why a public defender when the Laundries had the money for private legal representation? I've always thought it was because Wyoming is such a large state. So, if Brian was arrested, someone would need to handle the initial arraignment and other local matters until the high-priced attorneys could take over. It just seems like an awful big coincidence to speak with a Teton County lawyer if Bertolino had no specific knowledge.

Maybe that's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think it may meet the civil standard of "preponderance of the evidence".

Edit - There's also an email chain between Bertolino and the lawyers from Wyoming. We'll never see it, but the fact that it was going to be a prosecution exhibit suggests that it could further implicate Bertolino.

 

[tlcya]

very happy to see this resolved. Hoping both sets of parents can now move forward and let one another do so in peace.

 

[RANCH]

I think there's some proof that at least Bertolino did.

In addition to hiring lawyers for BL out of Laramie (in the southern part of the state), Bertolino also spoke with a public defender out of Teton County. Of course, Gabby was killed in Teton County, which is very large in land mass but sparsely populated. Mostly it contains federal parkland as well as the tourist town and ski resort of Jackson, WY.

Why Teton when it was so remote, and why a public defender when the Laundries had the money for private legal representation? I've always thought it was because Wyoming is such a large state. So, if Brian was arrested, someone would need to handle the initial arraignment and other local matters until the high-priced attorneys could take over. It just seems like an awful big coincidence to speak with a Teton County lawyer if Bertolino had no specific knowledge.

Maybe that's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think it may meet the civil standard of "preponderance of the evidence".

Edit - There's also an email chain between Bertolino and the lawyers from Wyoming. We'll never see it, but the fact that it was going to be a prosecution exhibit suggests that it could further implicate Bertolino.

Never heard about a public defender or this email chain before. What is the source for this information?

 

[DFWNF]

I think there's some proof that at least Bertolino did.

In addition to hiring lawyers for BL out of Laramie (in the southern part of the state), Bertolino also spoke with a public defender out of Teton County. Of course, Gabby was killed in Teton County, which is very large in land mass but sparsely populated. Mostly it contains federal parkland as well as the tourist town and ski resort of Jackson, WY.

Why Teton when it was so remote, and why a public defender when the Laundries had the money for private legal representation? I've always thought it was because Wyoming is such a large state. So, if Brian was arrested, someone would need to handle the initial arraignment and other local matters until the high-priced attorneys could take over. It just seems like an awful big coincidence to speak with a Teton County lawyer if Bertolino had no specific knowledge.

Maybe that's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think it may meet the civil standard of "preponderance of the evidence".

Edit - There's also an email chain between Bertolino and the lawyers from Wyoming. We'll never see it, but the fact that it was going to be a prosecution exhibit suggests that it could further implicate Bertolino.

I believe they all knew, always will. The depos make it clear, as did the Fact Bertolino knew they needed a Wyoming crime lawyer, and all the dead talk, it can't be more clear than that for me imo.

 

[ch_13]

Never heard about a public defender or this email chain before. What is the source for this information?

<modsnip - snarky>

The information about the public defender comes from a court filing which is discussed in this December 2023 NYPost article:

Brian Laundrie retained high-powered defense team 9 days before Gabby Petito reported missing: lawsuit

Brian Laundrie retained a high-powered defense team in Wyoming with his parents’ money more than a week before his fiancée Gabby Petito was reported missing

nypost.com

Bertolino also contacted other firms in the state, including a public defender in Teton County, where Petito’s remains were recovered Sept. 19, 2021, according to the filing.

The email chain is listed in a filing which @arielilane linked to just two weeks ago. It's item #19.

#NEW: The attorney representing #GabbyPetito's parents in their civil lawsuit against the Laundries and attorney Steven Bertolino have field their list of exhibits (45 in total) intended for use during the upcoming trial in May.

View attachment 482092View attachment 482093View attachment 482094

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755365944489107678

Just Now: Court documents reveal what exhibits Steven Bertolino intends to show in his defense at the upcoming #GabbyPetito trial.

PDF Link: https://wfla.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/71/2024/02/DEFENDANT-STEVEN-BERTOLINOS-EXHIBIT-LIST.pdf

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755714839802945601

 

[RANCH]

Details of the resolution of the emotional distress case were not disclosed. It came “after a long day of mediation,” the parents of Petito said in a statement released by their attorney Wednesday night.

The Petitos alleged in the suit that Laundrie’s parents and Bertolino knew Petito was dead but lied to them and the public by issuing messages of hope that she’d be found.

I was somewhat surprised that a settlement was reached after a single day of mediation.

The strongest evidence that came out of the depositions IMO was the phone call from BL that said Gabby was "gone". The problem is that it's not a solid piece of evidence saying the Laundries knew Gabby was dead.

You have to believe that the word "gone" can only mean "dead" in this situation and I feel that's just not the case. That's why I think it was a big factor in why this case has been settled at this point. JMO.

Settlement reached between Gabby Petito and Laundrie families

Gabby Petito was a killed as she and her boyfriend Brian Laundrie were on a cross-country road trip in 2021. Laundrie later died by suicide and left a note saying he was responsible.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[NCWatcher]

I was somewhat surprised that a settlement was reached after a single day of mediation.

The strongest evidence that came out of the depositions IMO was the phone call from BL that said Gabby was "gone". The problem is that it's not a solid piece of evidence saying the Laundries knew Gabby was dead.

You have to believe that the word "gone" can only mean "dead" in this situation and I feel that's just not the case. That's why I think it was a big factor in why this case has been settled at this point. JMO.

Settlement reached between Gabby Petito and Laundrie families

Gabby Petito was a killed as she and her boyfriend Brian Laundrie were on a cross-country road trip in 2021. Laundrie later died by suicide and left a note saying he was responsible.

www.nbcnews.com

I agree. And I'm glad mediation was successful so quickly. I honestly didn't think it would be.

I also agree about the word "gone." In hindsight the word seems to mean dead but I'm not convinced that's the way most people would have interpreted the word if they were in the Laundries' position.

Context is important. If one receives a call from a relative saying "Grandma's gone" and Grandma is 89, gone probably does mean dead & doesn't mean Grandma pulled up stakes and moved to Miami. But if a younger friend in a tumultuous relationship tells us her spouse is gone, I daresay most of us don't think he must be dead. And if the friend seems upset, it's not likely IMO we'd conclude she must have killed her husband.

It certainly seems like, from many accounts, Gabby and Brian had a "volatile" relationship. Apparently that was true even when they dated in high school according to classmates. But no one among all the relatives, including the Petito parents and their spouses, has said he/she suspected there was physical violence. The only person who has talked about physical fights was GP's friend Rose Davis who related that during one fight G had slapped B and he shoved her back. (Link is below)

We don't know if Rose's account is true. But Rose also talked about GP staying overnight at Rose's house "a bunch of times" when she didn't want to go home. Sometimes she'd decide just not to go home for dinner & according to Rose, that bothered BL too. Given that G&B always lived with his family or lived in his parents' condo, if Rose's account is accurate, it's quite possible the parents heard about or directly observed these other times GP was "gone."

Gabby Petito's friend claims her fiancé was jealous and controlling

MOO

 

[al66pine]

Additional Info "Withheld?" Mediation, Not Helpful to JP & NS?

So the only info the Petitos received was from the depositions alone. IMHO Sounds like the mediation wasn't helpful at all for Gabby's family! The additional info of how and when their daughter was murdered will forever be withheld from them.

@housewife
Seems ^ post (& some others) contains unstated assumptions.
1. Info “Withheld”
- Assumes BL gave INFO to CL, RL, and/or Bertolino about how & when he killed Gabby, and
- Assumes during depo’s when testifying under oath, CL, RL, and Bertolino all LIED, and
- Assumes Bertolino could have WAIVED atty-client privilege w whatever info BL gave.

Are all three assumptions CORRECT? IIRC, the court issued a ruling that Bertolino could not waive atty-client privilege re communications w BL. Assumptions 1 & 2 possibly true, IDK.
IF all three assumptions are true, then yes, additional info of the “how and when” of dau’s murder was WITHHELD from Gabby’s parents.

OTOH, IF BL did not tell CL, RL, and Bertolino about the death or killing, then those three simply had NO INFO to provide, so there was NO WITHHOLDING.

2. Other issue in ^ post, about sounding like MEDIATION was NOT HELPFUL to GP’s parents. I’m curious, so posing the Q. Why conclude that the mediation procedure was not helpful for GP’s parents? Was it because -
1. CL, BL, and Bertolino provided no “how and when” info about Gabby’s death, that is, assuming they did not give additional info at mediation session?
2. The defendants did not extend an offer to pay more MONEY, again, assuming they did not at mediation session.
3. ___ Other?___
Or stated another way, what could have happened in mediation that would have been helpful to Gabby’s parents?