04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue

[rose222]

Remain calm friends. It was certain they would ask for a surrebuttal, even if just to lay a record for appeal. After their two witnesses were so thoroughly discredited, it would be nearly malpractice not to try to ask for it.

THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION

The great thing, imo, is that even though this is a dp case, the judge can find that since JM DID, unlike the defense, follow the rules of discovery, they have known all along what Dr. DeMarte was going to testify to. She prepared a written report that was given to them that held all of her opinions and what she based them on, including the fact that she diagnosed Jodi with the disorder she testified to. They have known that she was going to dispute their experts, the pair of them, and she disagreed with their findings. They had ample opportunity to depose her. Jennifer questioned her in trial , remember when we deposed you, and you gave us your CV? I thought that it was in that depo where she realized her experts were going to be no match for the very educated and articulate Dr. DeMarte. That would have been the time to seek additional help from a third expert. This is going to be what JM refers to as Johnny come lately defense, that they want a do over. This would have been the time to file a motion and say they do not believe she is qualified as an expert in this field. NOT AFTER SHE TESTIFIES.

I recall this came up with nearly every expert in the Casey Anthony trial and boy oh boy did we learn a lot about discovery rules and why it is so important for the experts to set out in detail their findings, so there will be no gotcha moments.

In this case, ALV filed NO REPORT. Dr. Samuels filed a report with conflicting findings on his own tests. Dr. DeMarte filed a report and testified to it, without changing her opinion. As far as them arguing that she is not experienced enough to have opined on the matter, that should have been handled before trial. Indeed she has been deemed an expert before by the court there, so that argument will fail, in my opinion.

The judge will be on firm ground to deny the defense request. Even if she does allow a new expert, they will be limited to the small area the defense claims she deviated from on her report.
Don't worry, Juan Martinez was expecting this and with his twenty five years he has seen it all. He will make short order of this.

The lesser charge they are asking the judge to add, also seemed obvious that they would ask for that too, by all that they were trying to build up to with all the abuse. Otherwise there was no need to even bring up all the alleged incidents, etc. if it were just a straight he jumped at me, body slammed me, I had to defend myself against the physical threat.....self defense. It was obvious they were trying to build up for the jury her state of mind was that of someone with battered woman syndrome, and that she saw Travis through that skewed lens, thus explaining the extreme overkill.

I don't think it will be any surprise to the jury that this is what gets argued in closing arguments, they have been hearing it for months. I have good faith that it wont matter what array of choices they have on the form, the state has proved premeditation, and murder one. All day long!!!

IF they do not raise issues now, the next appeal lawyers will NOT be permitted to ask for the appeal court to cure any errors the judge made in the trial. So, it is expected that they ask for many a mistrial issue, and to ask for surrebuttal and to ask to add the witness after the disaster of their two. To not ask would border on malpractice.

Judging by the jury questions, they seem to be ready to take this to verdict some time ago. I have faith in them. Even if the judge allowed two more experts for the defense, nothing they can opine will take away from the Medical Examiner and how he is going to make the sky blue again in rebuttal. Those facts and those photos!!!

I heard that JM has a ninety eight percent conviction rate. My money is on him and the ME!! :rocker::rocker::rocker: MOO

:gthanks:

 

[Really?]

I kid, I kid I've already posted what's in the last couple. The computer dude from mesa pd, tesoro and wal-mart. Today I went back as far as the list that appears to have been produced by the State in response to the defense's request for a "good faith" witness list. It's very comprehensive and I think it was intended/required to be a list of every possible State witness known at the time (i.e., other than the rebuttal witness lists I already posted about).

Most of the people on the good faith list are LE/Forensics and custodians of records. The only custodian I didn't recognize was Don's Sporting Goods, but I may have missed posts/testimony about that. The rest were all places that we've seen receipts for, etc. before -- like McD's, Star Bucks.

I focused on the "civilian" witnesses. They were Raphael/Janie Columbo; Lisa; Deanna; Michael Bertot; Ryan; Mimi; David Prusha; Clancy; Mark & Leslie Udy; Steven Taylor; Heather Shafer; and all of Travis' sibs. I didn't see McCartney on the list.

Last, the defense has supplemented its own sentencing phase witness list to include Patricia Womack. I assume this is Jodi's friend who's been on TV recently.

So, there you have it.

Don's Sporting Goods?...Did she have to buy bullets???

hhhhmmmmm.....

 

[YESorNO]

I have no words to describe what I am feeling at the moment..none!

Discusted, is a good word.

I feel the same way. I just don't understand the law and how justice is served. Seems there are so many "loopholes" . I wish the jury could see all the "hard" evidence, not all the mombo-jumbo of experts, with all the spouting of opinions. Just. the. facts. please. It would make it easier fot the jury. A lie is a lie is a lie and JA is the sum of all prevaricators (is that a word? new word, OK- if JA can make new words, I can.)
Maybe "that thing in Florida" went to the same school as JA. :banghead:

 

[Mellinyce]

Like the cop would know or care if it was cashed!
A normal person that loved TA would not have even thought about it...
Guess that was one of the reasons that Flores said Jodi"you don't act right".



I bet he did Friday or Monday.
Remember the day she was furious in her little book?
Copying something it looked like...
Bet it was a pre test or something..

That or she was researching/writing up her own sur rebuttal! lol

she had all the test questions there in front of her. I can't say I saw her copy from the tests but they were there! And she so "neatly" organized them for her BFF JW, all the time.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Jumping off this ..

Time Out Exercise - Anger Paradigm. By Alyce LaViolette

• Does your stomach churn or get in a knot, do your shoulders tighten, does your heart beat faster, do you feel hot, does your face burn, does your jaw clench?
• When you recognize your signal (fuse), you can leave the situation physically and/or mentally.
• If the energy is big, leave and do a non-aggressive physical cool down (e.g. active walking, jogging, lifting weights, isometrics, dancing, shooting baskets, riding a bike).
• As you cool down physically, begin a cognitive cool down. Practice thinking differently. Practice positive self talk. You might say, "I don't want to hurt or scare anybody. I want to solve a problem." Or "I want to cool off." I don't want to feel bad about when I do - I don't want to feel guilty. I want to handle things better."
• Go back to your perception (how you see it) and look at alternate ways of seeing the situation. This is a good time to empathize and not to blame.
• Work on problem solving - doesn't have to mean confrontation. Remember, anything you want to get good at, you have to work on improving. Practice, practice and practice. You will develop a new way of thinking.
• Go back to person (if you still feel you need to) and work on solution.

http://www.alycelaviolette.com/Time-Out-Exercise-Anger-Paradigm.htm

For some reason when I read through this I hear Tantric Bells and Whalesong...

Is it just me or does Jodi need a time out according to Alyce?

 

[katiedid2]

:christmastree::christmastree:

No, but three might. :coffeeup::coffeeup::coffeeup: (I couldn't find the margarita glass smilie, but that's OK. I'm of the opinion that my drinks should have handles anyway.)

By the way…is the goat's name Jodi? :floorlaugh:

If they get their surbuttal! It will prolong the jury and I'm sure they would like to go home and get reacquainted with their families. I hope the judge takes the jury into consideration. I just think if there was a surbuttal the DT needs a good talking to by the judge to kinda move it along. Lorded bee ! Brings a new meaning to the CHRISTMAS carol!
ILL BE HOME FOR CHRISTMAS. IF ONLY I COULD

 

[Mr.Midnight]

Sigh! I'm at my breaking point already with the defense and their tactics I'm sure this will tick off the jurors to no end..im this close to jumping ship on this case

 

[Mellinyce]

Discusted, is a good word.

I feel the same way. I just don't understand the law and how justice is served. Seems there are so many "loopholes" . I wish the jury could see all the "hard" evidence, not all the mombo-jumbo of experts, with all the spouting of opinions. Just. the. facts. please. It would make it easier fot the jury. A lie is a lie is a lie and JA is the sum of all prevaricators (is that a word? new word, OK- if JA can make new words, I can.)
Maybe "that thing in Florida" went to the same school as JA. :banghead:

BBM: :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: I AGREE!

 

[SusieD]

I kid, I kid I've already posted what's in the last couple. The computer dude from mesa pd, tesoro and wal-mart. Today I went back as far as the list that appears to have been produced by the State in response to the defense's request for a "good faith" witness list. It's very comprehensive and I think it was intended/required to be a list of every possible State witness known at the time (i.e., other than the rebuttal witness lists I already posted about).

Most of the people on the good faith list are LE/Forensics and custodians of records. The only custodian I didn't recognize was Don's Sporting Goods, but I may have missed posts/testimony about that. The rest were all places that we've seen receipts for, etc. before -- like McD's, Star Bucks.

I focused on the "civilian" witnesses. They were Raphael/Janie Columbo; Lisa; Deanna; Michael Bertot; Ryan; Mimi; David Prusha; Clancy; Mark & Leslie Udy; Steven Taylor; Heather Shafer; and all of Travis' sibs. I didn't see McCartney on the list.

Last, the defense has supplemented its own sentencing phase witness list to include Patricia Womack. I assume this is Jodi's friend who's been on TV recently.

So, there you have it.

Don's Sportng Goods - knife purchase???? I've always contended it was a hunting or tactical knife

 

[rose222]

I agree completely. That jury had themselves in mind when rendering that verdict and not Caylee at all. I hope they live with the shame the rest of their lives. They didn't even attempt to deliberate, I've always felt there was one person on the jury who convinced the other there was no need to do so. Those jurors talked to each other about the trial - I have no doubt in my mind. They are small minded and weak individuals. Every single one of them.

Yes, all weak. A few who were weak and also greedy. I bet that some of them believed that a not guilty verdict would make for a more interesting book or interview. They did not imagine the outrage at their ridiculous verdict. And their post-verdict interviews? Basically they said that though they did not find KC guilty that they do not like her as a person. That's some consolation for us, huh? :furious:

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

No, but three might. :coffeeup::coffeeup::coffeeup: (I couldn't find the margarita glass smilie, but that's OK. I'm of the opinion that my drinks should have handles anyway.)

By the way…is the goat's name Jodi? :floorlaugh:

OMG! Too funny! The criminal goat is named Nazzey...short for Nazareth...but! I am putting her on suspect watch....she is exhibiting some untoward behavior....
She absconded the female pod....surreptitiously was batting, gnawing and scooching the separation area....batted her "Clarice-like" (she looks like Clarice from the Rudolph Claymation except she's black and white) eyelashes and manipulated Madaeja (her male cohort) into engaging in forbidden behavior.
She was apprehended and returned to her pod.... she is now restricted and is not allowed pens, pencils, paper, shampoo bottles, eyeliner and mascara....
Her podmate, Lilly Belle, swears she knows nothing. I have promised her extra goatie grain if she turns 'screw or snitch' and keeps me posted....

If this goat gets over to the male pod again I will consider changing her name....
I came up with a few choice ones this morning....:floorlaugh:

 

[seguek9]

Surrebuttal really doesn't worry me. I think the truth has been presented and I doubt the DT could do anything that will affect that. I really don't like the lesser charges....too much wiggle room there to suit me.
It's been such an unbelievable day here. My last client actually asked me to call her when I got home to let her know I got here safely. One client was rushed to the ER in heart block, another fell down a flight of stairs. Before that, one of my female goats busted her way to the 'segregated' section...found herself a boyfriend...Oh my lol Now I can be on babygoat watch..... It's been one of those days. And then I hear about the latest carp from the DT. I wish I was joking about how it feels in the pit of my stomach. Makes me wish I drank. Even a little Would a margarita make it better? LOL

OT...I have helped deliver a few baby goats feel free to contact me on the blessed day if there are any complications or anic:...

 

[KPinMN]

My understanding is that surrebuttal would be very limited to something new that was brought up. Such as if they had a witness that could rebut the testimony of JA stealing the ring. I would not think they could try to rebut the BPD because they have known that for years.

Also, if they are bringing in an expert, he/she would have to have been listed by the defense previously.

I agree. I don't think the DT would want to bring up the taking of the ring again since I don't think they can really prove otherwise conclusively and further discussing it would probably do more harm than good. Furthermore, they had to have known about the ring since they had access to all the same information Dr.JD had, so I'm not sure if it qualifies as new evidence for the purposes of surrebuttal and furthermore I'm not sure they can show that the ring issue is central to their case which I believe was notes as a requirement by one of the attorney's on the thread. MOO, of course

 

[kaRN]

Okay, so now the DT wants a surrebuttal, and all the lesser charges included...My mood here has TANKED, seriously. I could NOT be any unhappier about even a hair of a chance of the lesser charges. Really? Now, it could have been crime in the heat of passion? Save me. If this goes the way my gut is telling me it's going to go, I will not do this again. I swore I wouldn't after that debacle in FL. Who can reasonably talk me down.....

I'll try. :seeya:
A sur-rebuttal can only focus on evidence brought in on rebuttal. They can't start a new CIC. They plan on bringing on another witness to dispell Dr.D's testimony meaning they're scared. At this point does it really matter what they say? I don't believe so. Unlike Cardiology or Physics, there are no constants in Psychological Science. It's all open to subjective interpretation. There are no scans, lab tests etc to quantify the science, just journals and text messages and of course JA. The jury knows she's sick and don't need a battle of the experts to diagnose it. I don't think they really care or empathize with her anyway.
The crime scene photos don't tell the story of self defense for JA nor do they suggest crime of passion. The guy was taking a shower and some jurors might believe that she invaded his personal space even being there. Lastly no matter how many head shrinks testify, it's not reasonable for anyone including a battered woman to stab to death, then stab another 29+ times, then slit the throat and shoot over the passion of a dropped camera.

If the jury sounds angry now, just wait a few more weeks IMO.:hug:

 

[Schuby]

Last night my mom and I were having an argument about the Kennedy assassination (don't ask) and she kept insisting on certain "facts" because she was alive then and remembers them from life. She kept talking about the Zapruder film but calling it "Zagruder," and arguing with me about the name. Finally I said, "So, would you say you remember these details as clearly as you remember that it's Zagruder, not Zapruder? Her eyes got wide and she said, "Okay Juan Martinez!"

 

[rose222]

Sigh! I'm at my breaking point already with the defense and their tactics..im this close to jumping ship on this case and I'm sure this will tick off the jurors to no end.

The smart Websleuthers follow this trial when it is on and rest on court-free days. People like us though? We think about this trial 24/7, always thinking, analyzing, theorising, banging heads etc. I think we're all just spent!

 

[Aliz488]

You know I have thought about JODI learning Karate, she very easily could have learned to use a knife and blows to render Travis unable to move or respond. Hope Juan brings up all her KICKING THE DOG and walls and things like that to to the expert. And then ties it into if he can guarantee this was a one time killing and that he would feel safe if JODI WERE let out in society!!

 

[seguek9]

Don's Sportng Goods - knife purchase???? I've always contended it was a hunting or tactical knife

Nope...its where she bought the 9mm for her fake gold mining trip....

 

[Negative green]

http://www.fvsai.org/contactus.asp

can they seriously not find someone in the immediate area? or is it their plan to get their witnesses as much $ as possible for travel/accommodation

Bet Nurmi and Willmont had to charge a little interview travel to see the good Doc?

 

[YESorNO]

My understanding is that surrebuttal would be very limited to something new that was brought up. Such as if they had a witness that could rebut the testimony of JA stealing the ring. I would not think they could try to rebut the BPD because they have known that for years.

Also, if they are bringing in an expert, he/she would have to have been listed by the defense previously.

BBM

or maybe the Christmas tree thing :floorlaugh: