04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue

[Bernina]

Something else which may make life a little difficult for Jodi on Death Row .. one of her new friends there is a radical racist .. has an issue with Mexicans, doesn't care if they're second generation either ..

Murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

She was a member of the Minuteman Civil Defence Corps:



They asked her to leave however because she was too 'unstable' ..

Interesting times ahead for Jodi on Death Row.

Whoa.....My BF WAS a member of the "Minuteman Civil Defense Corps". Even got the baseball caps. They are very conscious of ANY ethnic slurs by any member and if proven, are immediately thrown out of the group, stripped of all credentials, etc. Don't even know if they're still around, the Founder of the group left to pursue politics and the treasurer misguided funds soon after, that was back in 2008 (?) Don't have a clue as to what's been going on with them, they were basically "spotters" for the BP and Sheriff's Dept. No "hands on" allowed. There was a lot of LE, retired LE, retired BP, Veterans, Lawyers, etc, in that group.

 

[kaRN]

Under case documents, JA is always party 001, since the case documents are related to the defendant(s) in the case, and the case is not against JM.

I even copied the explanation from the clerks office of Maricopa County Court for you a few days ago and I'm not doing it again. You're wrong.
The State (01) against Jodia Arias (2)

Please read the legal thread.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I understand the list of the State rebuttal witnesses was available today by the court clerk. Did anyone here get the list? Thanks.

 

[Frigga]

In my opinion JSS has been TOO lenient with the DT, almost to the exclusion of reason. I think she is more likely to grant this motion because it is one of the few areas that the DT has pursued that is pretty "black and white." If the reviewing court finds that the testimony should have been allowed, then the conviction is reversed. Period. So I fear that she will err on the side of caution.

... as she should, IMOO.

 

[AZWatcher]

This part is kind of a sticking point for me. Anyone else?

[If you determine that the defendant is guilty of either second degree murder or manslaughter but you have a reasonable doubt as to which it was, you must find the defendant guilty of manslaughter.]

http://www.azbar.org/media/292098/2011_cumulative_supplement.pdf

Absolutely, I can see it coming. I'm going to brace myself for a Murder 2 conviction so it won't hit me as hard as the Anthony verdict did. Good news is ... Jodi's not going home on verdict day... that much I will bet on.

 

[Nhic]

What if this new DT witness testifies JA does not have BPD, but rather, dissociative identity disorder. The "fog" would explain the switch to another personality.

 

[Bernina]

Whoa.....My BF WAS a member of the "Minuteman Civil Defense Corps". Even got the baseball caps. They are very conscious of ANY ethnic slurs by any member and if proven, are immediately thrown out of the group, stripped of all credentials, etc. Don't even know if they're still around, the Founder of the group left to pursue politics and the treasurer misguided funds soon after, that was back in 2008 (?) Don't have a clue as to what's been going on with them, they were basically "spotters" for the BP and Sheriff's Dept. No "hands on" allowed. There was a lot of LE, retired LE, retired BP, Veterans, Lawyers, etc, in that group.

PS. J.T. Reading killed his girlfriend/her mother and another individual and then killed himself. ULTRA NEO NAZI, glad he's out of the picture, but he had the more radical group with the same acronym.

 

[YESorNO]

You guys..I have posted this several times but am going to do so again as it is pertinent.

State v. Andriano, STATE of Arizona, Appellee, v. Wendi Elizabeth ANDRIANO, Appellant.

"We held in State v. Celaya that “where the sole defense is self-defense so that the evidence requires either conviction or acquittal, any instruction on any other grade would be impermissible.”  135 Ariz. 248, 255, 660 P.2d 849, 856 (1983);  see also State v. Wall, 212 Ariz. 1, 6, ¶ 29, 126 P.3d 148, 153 (2006) (noting that when defendant asserts an “all-or-nothing” defense, the record usually will not support the giving of a lesser-included offense instruction);  State v. Jones, 109 Ariz. 80, 81-82, 505 P.2d 251, 252-53 (1973) (holding that lesser-included offense instructions were not required where evidence at trial and defendant's self-defense theory presented an “either-or” situation requiring either first degree murder conviction or acquittal)."


Even in the unlikely situation where this Judge does allow the jury to consider lesser offences I have this unshakeable faith in JM. He will do everything to make this very smart jury understand what really happened. And the jurors have the option of felony murder as well. As JM said Travis would have considered JA to be an unwanted person in his house after the first stab wound.

Don't worry. Surrebuttal if there is one thing will not take long. JM will not let us down even if the unlikely event that lesser charges are an option.

I believe in Mr. Martinez I've never seen a person with such a passion for justice and truth. Lets all pray the jury will see this, too

 

[GoAskAllie]

The only stories I recall from TA's friends such as Clancy Talbott (about sleeping under the Christmas tree) weren't addressed in court, afaik.

Page 6 of Detective Flores' Investigation Supplement Report summarizes his interview with Marie Hall:

"She didn't know too much about Jodi, other than what she learned tonight. She learned that she was kind of obsessive and that she had manipulated Travis' facebook account. She also mentioned hearing that Jodi would get into the house through the doggie door without being invited. She described Jodi as a "stalker ex-girlfriend. Marie said she was actually kind of worried about her, because she was obsessive. She had also heard that Jodi had stolen some of his personal journals and they [sic] had recently taken some pages of his new book he was writing. She knew Travis spoke to Jodi sometime last week. Travis called Jodi, because he caught her hacking into one of his email or Facebook accounts and confronted her about it. Other than this she knew very little about Jodi Arias."

JA described the doggie door as installed in the sliding glass door, that the sliding door butted up to the doggie door but wasn't locked. Meaning she could walk in the sliding door.

Here's a photo of TA's doggie door showing the tiny 8" x 11" opening of the doggie door that it was probably impossible for her to fit through. But she could still walk in the sliding door that abutted it.

<modsnip>

Mimi testified about the doggy door (and other incidents of stalking behavior) during her redirect by Juan Martinez. Redirect begins at 1:55:38 on the Day 1 YouTube link (audio only) and the doggy door comes up at 1:56:36.

 

[Arabian Girl]

I would like to see JM really focus on the pre-meditation and deliberation aspects of the Murder 1 charge. If he can put it in a package that the jury can run with and drown out all of the background noise, then he has a home run. Right now, the DT has put on their case for so long that it is hard to remember the particularly egregious timeline/crime scene/planning aspects of this. JM will come back to it soon enough and that's where he needs to focus his attention.

FWIW, I have never agreed with the Felony Murder charge because it doesn't make any sense. This is the best explanation that I have seen as to why the charge is dead in the water:

http://www.azcriminallawsexcrimes.c...er-allegation-against-jodi-arias-is-nonsense/

Thanks for the reply! I had read that article earlier and of course that's a great argument!

I'm not a lawyer and don't have any legal experience so I'm sure my thinking is beyond simplistic. The point I didn't see addressed is I thought the AZ legislature specifically past a law/rule (?) basically claiming AZ will no longer apply common law. This seemed over the top but in a context like this, maybe not. Perhaps I read his point wrong.

I thought Judge's reasoning for allowing felony murder made sense; Jodi may have gone there with criminal intentions even if not to specifically kill TA. And I did get a kick out of JM's response as to the felony that even if he let Jodi in, it's likely TA would have revoked that permission once the attack started. Maybe stretching things a weeee bit!

Thanks again for your response.

 

[Karmady]

I understand the list of the State rebuttal witnesses was available today by the court clerk. Did anyone here get the list? Thanks.

They've been available all along. There was nothing new today that I saw and I'm saving the ones I did see for the next lull in conversation leading to a prolonged "sphincter" discussion

 

[JSR]

Omg they want surbuttal and manslaughter crime of passion?

It's called throwing everything against the wall hoping they won't convict her of 1st degree murder.

The gas cans shoot the heat of passion argument dead in the water. You can't plan a murder for weeks and then claim heat of passion.

But a heat of passion defense makes a hell of a lot realistic than what she went with- that TA was a pedophile who abused her throughout the whole relationship both physically, emotionally and sexually and he body slammed her and she HAD to kill him.

 

[Litigatrix]

A lot of DP cases are actually based on Felony Murder and not Pre-Meditated Murder from what I know just about my local area. If you kill a cop, you get Murder 1 and often the DP, but that is clearly not pre-meditated. Similar to if you commit an armed robbery and kill someone in the process. Most of the cases I've heard about that result in the DP are Felony Murder.

*snipped for space

Totally right. This is the classic example of felony murder. You killed a police officer who responded to the scene of the crime when you were breaking into a house. You killed a home owner that found you rifling through their home that you were burglarizing. You were robbing a bank and your co-conspirator shot a teller. You were raping a woman and accidentally choked her to death.

IMO felony murder is just a stretch here. But I think the evidence of pre-med is enough to carry the day.

 

[Sydni]

It means that after Juan presents his rebuttal case, the defense wants to get up there AGAIN and take another two months to whine and stomp thier feet and make up lies. We may even get to see our dear Jodi up there explaining that she DID return the gas can, but did not take it to customer service, that she met the greeter at the door and he had on a blue Wal mart apron and he noticed her new manicure and he liked the color of the nail polish and then they fell to talking and discovered that he liked the Movie The Secret too and then he noticed she had a gas can and he asked her what she was doing with it and she said she was returning it and by this time they had walked outside and there were cracks in the sidewalk right there and just as he was asking for her phone number she realized she left the reciept in the car and he said he could use a gas can but he did not have any money on him but he did have a couple of Starbucks coupons but he had to go to his car to get them and he was driving a car with a tire on it that looked like............well, YOU GET MY DRIFT. Shoot us now, PLEASE.

Gee ... you would make a GREAT defense attorney :clap: :giggle:

 

[Mellinyce]

Something else which may make life a little difficult for Jodi on Death Row .. one of her new friends there is a radical racist .. has an issue with Mexicans, doesn't care if they're second generation either ..

Murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

She was a member of the Minuteman Civil Defence Corps:



They asked her to leave however because she was too 'unstable' ..

Interesting times ahead for Jodi on Death Row.

Right she is the one that had the little girl and her dad killed and mom got shot in the leg.

 

[Sleuth5]

This part is kind of a sticking point for me. Anyone else?

[If you determine that the defendant is guilty of either second degree murder or manslaughter but you have a reasonable doubt as to which it was, you must find the defendant guilty of manslaughter.]

http://www.azbar.org/media/292098/2011_cumulative_supplement.pdf

I'm not worried. I've said it before -- no matter which twelve end up in the jury room, I'm convinced that a clear majority will be convinced of 1st degree premeditated. There is no way, in my opinion, that a minority of folks holding out for a second degree conviction would sway them into a unanimous vote based on the evidence in this case. So it's going to be all or nothing, in my view. 1st degree or hung.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I can't see anyone agreeing this crime was in a heat of passion. If that was the case, one killing would be enough. And she would have been so distraught, she would have surely turned herself in. But after she stabbed him 29 times, she then slits his throat and shoots him? Nah, that's not heat of passion after a quarrel. That is a planned execution, overkill, slaughter. That won't fly with the jury.

Jodi needs to wise up and beg the jury for mercy.

 

[Mellinyce]

So this isn't changing her plea of guilty but due to self defense? This is adding to the self defense? Im sooooo confused.

 

[aa9511]

According to my attorney brother, judges will sometimes add the lesser included offenses IF the defense has laid a foundation through witness testimony and evidence offered. I think that was what the DT was quietly doing with Samuels and ALV. They have been laying out their foundation for a battered woman that finally snapped, because of prior abuse and mistreatment. I am afraid that the judge might let these lesser includes in at the last moment.

Hmm...that makes a lot of sense. That would explain why Martinez and Wilmott both went a little too in-depth over all specific aspects of the test results, which were usually confusing to follow for both of them. It's my opinion that both could have provided a much clearer summary-type picture for the jury to understand. But if they were trying to convince JSS, then that's different and they would need to go in-depth.

 

[Karmady]

So this isn't changing her plea of guilty but due to self defense? This is adding to the self defense? Im sooooo confused.

Correct, and adding to the self-defense jury charge also.