04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue

[seguek9]

(oh carp...tell me I didnt blow a margin whilst sucking up to a mod....)
:facepalm:

 

[Negative green]

Have you all seen this? Not sure I strictly believe in hard writing analysis but it is interesting.
Jodi Arias Murder Suspect - Handwriting Analysis - YouTube

 

[Arabian Girl]

I hope Juan asks him if he considers himself an "expert" in abuse. LOL

The Institute on Violence, Abuse, and Trauma - What's that? Some kind of Vo-tech Center? Oh brother.....

Sounds like a money maker to me...just sayin'! :twocents::twocents:

 

[Karmady]

That's just prolonging our agony!!! Does this include JM's 16th supplemental to the rebuttal witness list? I have yet to find the actual document anywhere! And live 3 hours away from Phoenix and it's not worth the drive:truce:

I kid, I kid I've already posted what's in the last couple. The computer dude from mesa pd, tesoro and wal-mart. Today I went back as far as the list that appears to have been produced by the State in response to the defense's request for a "good faith" witness list. It's very comprehensive and I think it was intended/required to be a list of every possible State witness known at the time (i.e., other than the rebuttal witness lists I already posted about).

Most of the people on the good faith list are LE/Forensics and custodians of records. The only custodian I didn't recognize was Don's Sporting Goods, but I may have missed posts/testimony about that. The rest were all places that we've seen receipts for, etc. before -- like McD's, Star Bucks.

I focused on the "civilian" witnesses. They were Raphael/Janie Columbo; Lisa; Deanna; Michael Bertot; Ryan; Mimi; David Prusha; Clancy; Mark & Leslie Udy; Steven Taylor; Heather Shafer; and all of Travis' sibs. I didn't see McCartney on the list.

Last, the defense has supplemented its own sentencing phase witness list to include Patricia Womack. I assume this is Jodi's friend who's been on TV recently.

So, there you have it.

 

[rose222]

I believe in Mr. Martinez I've never seen a person with such a passion for justice and truth. Lets all pray the jury will see this, too

Me too. I have this inexplicable 'throw whatever you want at JM. He'll handle it and get us the murder one conviction' feeling.

 

[Arabian Girl]

Me too. I have this inexplicable 'throw whatever you want at JM. He'll handle it and get us the murder one conviction' feeling.

One can only imagine how bad he'll need a vacation after this!

 

[SunnyinMO]

I wonder what the Casey jurors think now ... they must know that their verdict damaged everyone's faith in the system to the point where now there's never confidence in a conviction, if anyone says anything that sounds assured someone else instantly pops in with the ever helpful 'Remember the Casey verdict .. we were all sure about that one'.

Do they sit at home and think .. 'Doh!'?

I hope Caylee's spirit visits them every night asking them, 'why did you fail me'

 

[aa9511]

This is why JSS (I hope and pray) will not allow this surrebuttal. It does not make sense to me that this could be an issue on appeal because .... oh carp ..... I just don't know what to think anymore.

I agree with one poster here that the DT is trying to exhaust this jury and and attempting to get a mistrial. Ooooo big surprise!!

I, myself, am exhausted and almost totally intellectually depleted. I can hardly wrap my brain around all of the shenanigans that have been going on in the past ... and currently. I'm almost ready to check out. I have been so invested in this trial and achieving justice for Travis, but I can barely keep up. I think about the family and then I think ... well, if they can stay strong ... maybe I should too ... but it really is affecting my life. My daily life is falling apart. I don't answer the phone ... the door .... I get annoyed if anyone talks to me while I'm listening to something on HLN or reading Websleuths. I am a hot mess!!

I think I wanna quit .... but I have an addictive personality. Do I have any support out there? HEEEELLLLLPPP !!

I TOTALLY understand and it's affecting me the same way. Because of the time zone and my schedule, I can only watch the first section before lunch break, then I have to wait and watch parts 2 and 3 once everyone's asleep, that combined with checking on here means I don't go to sleep until 1 at the earliest. I also have an "addictive personality", so I completely understand. Not to mention in between parts 1 and 2 I'm going crazy wanting to get back to the trial and wondering what's going on. I thought I was the only one, that's why I love this site so much! Oh, and I forgot sometimes watching NG and Dr. Drew, I record those, but still takes another hour or so for those.

 

[Softail]

I wonder what the Casey jurors think now ... they must know that their verdict damaged everyone's faith in the system to the point where now there's never confidence in a conviction, if anyone says anything that sounds assured someone else instantly pops in with the ever helpful 'Remember the Casey verdict .. we were all sure about that one'.

Do they sit at home and think .. 'Doh!'?

Sadly, they probably still think they were right. :doh:

:sigh:

 

[Tipstaff]

According to my attorney brother, judges will sometimes add the lesser included offenses IF the defense has laid a foundation through witness testimony and evidence offered. I think that was what the DT was quietly doing with Samuels and ALV. They have been laying out their foundation for a battered woman that finally snapped, because of prior abuse and mistreatment. I am afraid that the judge might let these lesser includes in at the last moment.

It did appear from the jury questions both with ALV and Samuels and then with Dr. D that the jury was NOT buying the battered woman defense the DT was tossing out there.

Don't the the DT was at all successful.

 

[seguek9]

Defense #8 might actually fly: Jodi's mother is a twin, and twins often beget twins. :floorlaugh: Skeery to even think about that possibility.

***picturing Nurmi's minions furiously writing down this possibility***

:floorlaugh: but...ya never know in this case...:facepalm:

 

[TexMex]

Speaking of "gas cans" -- I posted this earlier today here :

But did anyone see Mike Galanos' on HLN demonstration of the three 5-gallon cans ?

OMG -- those gas cans are much bigger than I thought ...

Seriously, I wish Mr. Martinez would bring in THREE 5-gallon cans to show the jury ... it really surprised me how big they are, and when you see 3 of them, it will clearly prove that she did NOT want to stop for gas in Arizona !

:moo:

The gas cans prove premed. Lets say her car got 30mpg (2008 ford focus claims 35). With 15 gallons in the trunk that gives her 450 miles. From Mesa to Mesquite, NV where she filled up is 391miles. Two gas cans would only get her a little over 300 miles away from Mesa.

She asked Darryl at least twice to borrow his two cans
She picked them up then bought an additional can

But then she lies about it. After regaling the courtroom about how she had lied in the past and lied about only the murder but would never lie in the courtroom, she testified to only two gas cans. Testified she returned the third one. Testified to that on direct and again on redirect then (worst of all for her) lied to the juror who asked about this via jury questions. Juan Martinez then revealed she filled up three cans in Utah and never returned the third can as she claimed. He will nail this down in his rebuttal with the Walmart and Tesoro witnesses.

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

Okay, so now the DT wants a surrebuttal, and all the lesser charges included...My mood here has TANKED, seriously. I could NOT be any unhappier about even a hair of a chance of the lesser charges. Really? Now, it could have been crime in the heat of passion? Save me. If this goes the way my gut is telling me it's going to go, I will not do this again. I swore I wouldn't after that debacle in FL. Who can reasonably talk me down.....

 

[Wendy101]

Oh.. i see.. Alice wasnt professional enough so now they call Robert??? i say no way! They wanted Alice, they got Alice!

 

[nic2200]

Totally right. This is the classic example of felony murder. You killed a police officer who responded to the scene of the crime when you were breaking into a house. You killed a home owner that found you rifling through their home that you were burglarizing. You were robbing a bank and your co-conspirator shot a teller. You were raping a woman and accidentally choked her to death.

IMO felony murder is just a stretch here. But I think the evidence of pre-med is enough to carry the day.

Well I think "pre-meditation" and Murder 1 gets misconstrued sometimes too. It doesn't necessarily mean that you've sat around and plotted someone's demise for months. It just means that you thought about it and committed the act with the intention to kill someone.

For example, I could be sitting on my couch and I look down and see my husband's socks on the floor. This angers me because I've asked him not to leave his socks on the floor and I just can't take it anymore. So I sit here for 3 minutes and decide that I no longer think he should be allowed to live because he is a dirty sock leaver. I go upstairs, grab the gun out of the closet, and shoot him when he's in the shower.

AFAIK.... that's still Murder 1. It doesn't matter that I only thought about it for 3 minutes. I made the decision, got a weapon, and acted accordingly. I intended to kill him when I went upstairs. I really think this is the extent of what pre-meditation means and someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

In this case, because there is the element of self-defense/scuffle there is the question out there whether or not Jodi really walked into that bathroom with the intention of killing Travis. I think absolutely yes, whether she started planning it back in May or not. However, because of the question as to whether there may have been some sort of scuffle that led to Travis's death, they threw Felony Murder in as a safety net.

That is just my understanding of the way things work. Like I said, if I'm wrong, just slap me.

 

[AngelWings444]

I wonder if they site each other as sources in their books. Of if they quote each there. I'll never know because I'll never read their books, or articles, or anything.

Yes, they do! They seem to attend the same conferences too. Some listed below..just googled Alyce and Geffner and there are pages, where both names are referenced together.

They probably tag team in custody cases. :furious:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMILYCOURTREFORM/message/4033

http://www.inpea.net/images/IVAT2010_ConferenceBooklet.pdf

http://www.cvent.com/events/17th-in...stom-18-b1da4c68dd834500b75c020e5be82ba8.aspx

http://ivatcenters.org/conferences/17thIC/IVAT 17th Conference Booklet-FINAL VERSION.pdf

http://www.davidprescott.net/2007_09IVAT.pdf

http://www.biscmi.org/documents/R2W_brochure.pdf

http://www.biscmi.org/other_resources/cabipflr2003.pdf

 

[SusieD]

So far, I see solid and enough evidences(everything she did to cover herself up before the murder) against JA of premeditated murder, if say one juror does not agree with the others then I assume he/she needs to give some convincing reasons to back him/her up, if he/she can't, then the rest of the jurors can report this to the court and let the judge decides if an alternative juror should be brought in to replace him/her.

I am not sure if that's how it works but any thought?

Im not a lawyer but...

jurors don't get dismissed and replaced because the other jurors don't like how they think.

If there is true juror misconduct then the other jurors can report it to the judge but the result is mistrial, mulligan, do-over, not a new juror.

I may be the only one who doesn't think the jury wants a mistrial. They have nothing new to add to the next go-round, other than try to get experts that aren't so worthless. I can't find any statistics but I think the prosecution wins almost all the re-trials in a hung jury case.

 

[Sydni]

I wonder what the Casey jurors think now ... they must know that their verdict damaged everyone's faith in the system to the point where now there's never confidence in a conviction, if anyone says anything that sounds assured someone else instantly pops in with the ever helpful 'Remember the Casey verdict .. we were all sure about that one'.

Do they sit at home and think .. 'Doh!'?

OT: I wonder that too. I honestly think there was one dumba$$ juror (maybe the foremen - PE teacher?) who was so convincing in saying that there is no proof. Anything that we heard from the jurors was that "they couldn't prove what happened" ... "how did Caylee die" .... "was it an accident" ... "was it intentional" ... there was no proof .. so we had to acquit her. Dumba$$ jury. It is no wonder we haven't head from any of them. I would be ashamed of myself if I rendered that verdict. So very ashamed. Just makes me want to throw up every time I think about it.

Sorry peeps. I'm venting today. I'm so exhausted by this trial (JA/TA) that I am just hating the justice system right now. All of the false info and innuendos submitted by defense attorneys ... it just doesn't seem right and I am so disappointed with it all ... starting with OJ Simpson - another killer that was acquitted by another dumba$$ jury. What is going on?

 

[seguek9]

iirc Dons is where she bought the 9mm...

I kid, I kid I've already posted what's in the last couple. The computer dude from mesa pd, tesoro and wal-mart. Today I went back as far as the list that appears to have been produced by the State in response to the defense's request for a "good faith" witness list. It's very comprehensive and I think it was intended/required to be a list of every possible State witness known at the time (i.e., other than the rebuttal witness lists I already posted about).

Most of the people on the good faith list are LE/Forensics and custodians of records. The only custodian I didn't recognize was Don's Sporting Goods, but I may have missed posts/testimony about that. The rest were all places that we've seen receipts for, etc. before -- like McD's, Star Bucks.

I focused on the "civilian" witnesses. They were Raphael/Janie Columbo; Lisa; Deanna; Michael Bertot; Ryan; Mimi; David Prusha; Clancy; Mark & Leslie Udy; Steven Taylor; Heather Shafer; and all of Travis' sibs. I didn't see McCartney on the list.

Last, the defense has supplemented its own sentencing phase witness list to include Patricia Womack. I assume this is Jodi's friend who's been on TV recently.

So, there you have it.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I kid, I kid I've already posted what's in the last couple. The computer dude from mesa pd, tesoro and wal-mart. Today I went back as far as the list that appears to have been produced by the State in response to the defense's request for a "good faith" witness list. It's very comprehensive and I think it was intended/required to be a list of every possible State witness known at the time (i.e., other than the rebuttal witness lists I already posted about).

Most of the people on the good faith list are LE/Forensics and custodians of records. The only custodian I didn't recognize was Don's Sporting Goods, but I may have missed posts/testimony about that. The rest were all places that we've seen receipts for, etc. before -- like McD's, Star Bucks.

I focused on the "civilian" witnesses. They were Raphael/Janie Columbo; Lisa; Deanna; Michael Bertot; Ryan; Mimi; David Prusha; Clancy; Mark & Leslie Udy; Steven Taylor; Heather Shafer; and all of Travis' sibs. I didn't see McCartney on the list.

Last, the defense has supplemented its own sentencing phase witness list to include Patricia Womack. I assume this is Jodi's friend who's been on TV recently.

So, there you have it.

Karmady,
Have I told you lately that I love you? Thank you!!
Now.....do you or anyone out there know who the following folks are?
Raphael and Janie Columbo
Michael Bertrot
David Prusha
Heather Shafer

Is Steven Taylor the friend of Travis who has been on HLN several times?
Do you know what the Udy's have to say?
Can the defense use Patricia Womack if she is talking on TV?