100 questions from the jury: Arias answering on her 17th day on the stand #78

[Nancy_Drew]

Another odd (straight) picture of her left ring finger...

 

[snowcat]

For all the kids I work with, there is a high need for control, no empathy, no conscience. It is a sliding scale - some have serious issues, some are more mild. The nonsense lying is constant. It is a sign that they feel the need to control - like their life literally depends on it. For days, I have seen her have the flat affect and the blank eyes. Sometimes, when she says "I don't remember," I almost see her as dissociating. It is odd. You think about how many times she has said "I don't know" about her own reasons and her own feelings. Often, with my kids, that is the way it is. They literally cannot connect to their feelings enough to know why they did what they did. So much of it is truly reactive. That does not mean there is not planning. They are highly susceptible to tremendous rage and anger at the feeling of abandonment or loss of control - even perceived abandonment or loss of control. They have a very fake exterior. I call it the "china doll." It is the smiley, happy, totally in control face you see when she does all the interviews. It is so skilled it is uncanny. It is totally a survival mechanism that they have learned very early on. Out of all kids, these kids are the most socially adept and good at being believed. Even when flat out lying.

But, today has been different. I have to say it has hit me very hard personally. I got into this field because I adopted a child who has had extreme attachment issues. Due to years of helping my child, I have come to see first hand how hard it is to raise a child with these traits of no empathy and no conscience. Like someone posted the other day, you go round and round with the lies - the endless nonsense lies - even the control on little things like the mayonnaise and mustard. The blank eyes and china doll face. You always hope you can make a difference but daily you face issues like JM has on the stand. But, then there is a point. If you can hang in there and be lovingly therapeutic and outlast the chaos, there is a point that you can get to with these children that the total look of all their bottled up shame comes up. They let down their guard for a few moments and you can see the darkness, anger, rage, and pain they carry. Almost a look of defeat.

I saw that look in Jodi today and, for me as a mom, it was the weirdest feeling. I honestly felt love. I recognized that look as the point on the children I work with when they give up the baloney and know they cannot continue - that the act and fake stuff isn't working. At that point, I know as a mom I can help. Of course, in our home and many others, it is little things like mayonnaise or mustard or lying about who hurt the family dog, not murder. But, at the end of the day, all of my families are working to help our kids get conscience and empathy so that things like this don't happen.

With my child, I wait for that look of defeat, of resignation, to know that my child is willing to trust me to help. So many times, I have had to wait patiently, through lots of stuff, to get to that point. But, the moment my child gives up the act, I know I can help. Often, those are some of our most tender moments. It takes so much for a child who has been significantly hurt (such that he or she forms no attachments) to trust with true emotion. When they will trust you, you have a chance to teach them another way. It is incredibly hard because that has been their sole survival.

Today, when I saw the deflated look, I knew JA knew the jury wasn't buying it. She can tell her way hasn't worked. The shame - not of killing TA - but of how defective and different she is from everyone else has hit her. She knows she is different, fundamentally flawed, but, if she can keep up the act and others will believe the act, she feels on top of the world. When that starts to crack, it is a tremendous fall. For a younger child, it is a point of help. For JA, it is a point of realizing it has not worked.

Sharing alot here. But, I work with families all over the world who have adopted kids with the same issues. I go to court with them to get help. I hold their hands when their child beats them up. I help them deal with the no conscience or empathy. I help protect them when their children physically harm them. I love those families because they do the hardest job in the world. JA has highlighted why we do what we do.

When I saw her deflated look, I knew she knew it was over. Today, instead of dark eyes and the smile, I could see the dark eyes and fallen countenance. I saw the "child" that was stunted many many years ago. While she tries to come across as intelligent and is very sophisticated at the act, she seems to me to be emotionally stunted at a 12 year old level. Today, in her countenance, I could see "behind the curtain" of the wizard of Oz. The grand act came crashing down.

I am not saying she will not try to regain the image. And, I am definitely not saying she will not lie. She has to lie to feel any control at all. She almost can't help it, even on stupid things.

But, today, I could see and so recognized the look. I have seen it many times before. The moment she realized it was done. That the act hadn't worked and that people could see through the fake exterior. For her, that was crushing.


Please don't bash here. It took a lot to share this. Please know that, if you have read the posts, I am huge on accountability for JA. I feel very strongly that she must be held accountable for what she did. When I describe the love and empathy I felt, it surprised even me. It is not a reflection of what I think needs to happen, but a reflection of all the young children I love that show so many traits of JA - lacking conscience, no empathy, rage, violence, non sense lying, no close attachments. Daily, I work with families that fight the good fight, with such small progress, never knowing if their patience and therapeutic parenting will make any dent in the symptoms or not. JA represents the worst outcome for us. Each day, we hope that we can help turn that around for the kids we love so much. When you talk about the mom laughing in the court room, I bet I could speak volumes as to what she has lived with. I don't know her and won't speculate, but if she is anything like the parents I work with, her emotions seem odd because parenting JA was nothing like parenting a typical child. While totally inappropriate in some of her actions, her mother heart forces her to be there until the end, even as her child testifies she is an abuser and they are not close. I bet that mom would have loved the experience of knowing her child really loved her, even once. Just a guess, but sometimes people laugh so they don't cry.

Thanks for letting me share. I hope this is understood the way it was intended. If not, let me clear it up before you jump on me - grin!

you've got a great heart, thx for sharing

 

[LadyEdith]

For all the kids I work with, there is a high need for control, no empathy, no conscience. It is a sliding scale - some have serious issues, some are more mild. The nonsense lying is constant. It is a sign that they feel the need to control - like their life literally depends on it. For days, I have seen her have the flat affect and the blank eyes. Sometimes, when she says "I don't remember," I almost see her as dissociating. It is odd. You think about how many times she has said "I don't know" about her own reasons and her own feelings. Often, with my kids, that is the way it is. They literally cannot connect to their feelings enough to know why they did what they did. So much of it is truly reactive. That does not mean there is not planning. They are highly susceptible to tremendous rage and anger at the feeling of abandonment or loss of control - even perceived abandonment or loss of control. They have a very fake exterior. I call it the "china doll." It is the smiley, happy, totally in control face you see when she does all the interviews. It is so skilled it is uncanny. It is totally a survival mechanism that they have learned very early on. Out of all kids, these kids are the most socially adept and good at being believed. Even when flat out lying.

But, today has been different. I have to say it has hit me very hard personally. I got into this field because I adopted a child who has had extreme attachment issues. Due to years of helping my child, I have come to see first hand how hard it is to raise a child with these traits of no empathy and no conscience. Like someone posted the other day, you go round and round with the lies - the endless nonsense lies - even the control on little things like the mayonnaise and mustard. The blank eyes and china doll face. You always hope you can make a difference but daily you face issues like JM has on the stand. But, then there is a point. If you can hang in there and be lovingly therapeutic and outlast the chaos, there is a point that you can get to with these children that the total look of all their bottled up shame comes up. They let down their guard for a few moments and you can see the darkness, anger, rage, and pain they carry. Almost a look of defeat.

I saw that look in Jodi today and, for me as a mom, it was the weirdest feeling. I honestly felt love. I recognized that look as the point on the children I work with when they give up the baloney and know they cannot continue - that the act and fake stuff isn't working. At that point, I know as a mom I can help. Of course, in our home and many others, it is little things like mayonnaise or mustard or lying about who hurt the family dog, not murder. But, at the end of the day, all of my families are working to help our kids get conscience and empathy so that things like this don't happen.

With my child, I wait for that look of defeat, of resignation, to know that my child is willing to trust me to help. So many times, I have had to wait patiently, through lots of stuff, to get to that point. But, the moment my child gives up the act, I know I can help. Often, those are some of our most tender moments. It takes so much for a child who has been significantly hurt (such that he or she forms no attachments) to trust with true emotion. When they will trust you, you have a chance to teach them another way. It is incredibly hard because that has been their sole survival.

Today, when I saw the deflated look, I knew JA knew the jury wasn't buying it. She can tell her way hasn't worked. The shame - not of killing TA - but of how defective and different she is from everyone else has hit her. She knows she is different, fundamentally flawed, but, if she can keep up the act and others will believe the act, she feels on top of the world. When that starts to crack, it is a tremendous fall. For a younger child, it is a point of help. For JA, it is a point of realizing it has not worked.

Sharing alot here. But, I work with families all over the world who have adopted kids with the same issues. I go to court with them to get help. I hold their hands when their child beats them up. I help them deal with the no conscience or empathy. I help protect them when their children physically harm them. I love those families because they do the hardest job in the world. JA has highlighted why we do what we do.

When I saw her deflated look, I knew she knew it was over. Today, instead of dark eyes and the smile, I could see the dark eyes and fallen countenance. I saw the "child" that was stunted many many years ago. While she tries to come across as intelligent and is very sophisticated at the act, she seems to me to be emotionally stunted at a 12 year old level. Today, in her countenance, I could see "behind the curtain" of the wizard of Oz. The grand act came crashing down.

I am not saying she will not try to regain the image. And, I am definitely not saying she will not lie. She has to lie to feel any control at all. She almost can't help it, even on stupid things.

But, today, I could see and so recognized the look. I have seen it many times before. The moment she realized it was done. That the act hadn't worked and that people could see through the fake exterior. For her, that was crushing.


Please don't bash here. It took a lot to share this. Please know that, if you have read the posts, I am huge on accountability for JA. I feel very strongly that she must be held accountable for what she did. When I describe the love and empathy I felt, it surprised even me. It is not a reflection of what I think needs to happen, but a reflection of all the young children I love that show so many traits of JA - lacking conscience, no empathy, rage, violence, non sense lying, no close attachments. Daily, I work with families that fight the good fight, with such small progress, never knowing if their patience and therapeutic parenting will make any dent in the symptoms or not. JA represents the worst outcome for us. Each day, we hope that we can help turn that around for the kids we love so much. When you talk about the mom laughing in the court room, I bet I could speak volumes as to what she has lived with. I don't know her and won't speculate, but if she is anything like the parents I work with, her emotions seem odd because parenting JA was nothing like parenting a typical child. While totally inappropriate in some of her actions, her mother heart forces her to be there until the end, even as her child testifies she is an abuser and they are not close. I bet that mom would have loved the experience of knowing her child really loved her, even once. Just a guess, but sometimes people laugh so they don't cry.

Thanks for letting me share. I hope this is understood the way it was intended. If not, let me clear it up before you jump on me - grin!

THANK YOU. For the honesty, courage and authenticity you brought to this post. These anomalous personalities all come from somewhere and leave FAMILIES behind them. They don't all become high-profile killers, but do wreak havoc on their families of origin and others.

Again, thank you for this perspective.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Thanks for sharing something so personal. Definitely gives me a different opinion about her mother. I have felt bad for both parents when Jodi continuously makes cold remarks about them, and her mother who has been there every day. I do dislike how she laughs with her twin sister though in inappropriate moments in the trial, but you're on to something with your diagnosis.

On another note - do you think people like this (JA) are born like this or do you think something happened to her as a child to stunt her growth?

And I have two other questions to add to yours for Mormon Attorney -

1) Do you think that Jodi will be back to "herself" on Wednesday as she will have had several days to get over today?

2) Would it be your opinion, dealing with the types of kids you deal with, that because Jodi knew that Travis was on to her (sociopathic text messages etc) that that possibly was a factor in her doing what she did? That she knew she couldn't fool him anymore and rather than just move on, she had to "react" instead? Hopefully this makes sense -I had a much more coherent response typed out and it didn't post

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Here is another one I posted a couple of days ago...

 

[StephanieHartPI]

(Mormon Attorney) what terrific insight into Jodi and the kids you work with. Such vast experience. I do see what you are saying.

Can you answer this maybe a little...When you see this and you work with the kids and it's recognized young, is there hope? What happens? If they get along without much intervention or with a family that cannot handle this, does this explain some "sociopathic" adults?

 

[Mormon Attorney]

Thanks for sharing something so personal. Definitely gives me a different opinion about her mother. I have felt bad for both parents when Jodi continuously makes cold remarks about them, and her mother who has been there every day. I do dislike how she laughs with her twin sister though in inappropriate moments in the trial, but you're on to something with your diagnosis.

On another note - do you think people like this (JA) are born like this or do you think something happened to her as a child to stunt her growth?

For the kids, I work with the issue started from 0-3. Neglect, abuse, abandonment did something to break the caregiver-child bond that taught the child not to trust anyone. This can be from serious sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and neglect. Or, in some cases, if the child has to be medically separated from the mother at the hospital or the child goes through painful procedures after birth. Basically, anything that disrupts the normal bonding to the extent that the child learns that it is actually harmful to bond.

For instance, a child may learn that they get hurt when they cry (for food, diaper change, etc.) So, they learn NOT to cry. They learn their own form of survival. They learn not to trust.

With my group, we are focused on attachment disorder - something that so disrupted the bond between 0-3 that NOT BONDING became the status quo, a feeling of safety for the child. If something happens after a child has a meaningful bond, the child can form a bond with another caregiver. But, if something happens to the original bond and the child learns to fear bonding, it is very difficult to undo that in later years. That first bond is so important.

I am sure that mental illness can attribute to a child's failure to bond. I know that environment can. In the cases with my adoptive families, there is often a significant history of neglect or abuse which taught a child not to bond. And, just to be clear, some of these things are not the original caregiver's fault. Maternal depression may hurt a bond, medical issues which prevent a caregiver from being available, being moved from caregiver to caregiver, etc.

 

[Steely Dan]

Before I watch the pm part of the trial did anything Bombshell happen?

 

[beeshie]

As I have pointed out previously, the mysterious 3rd charge to Tosoro in SLC for $20 does NOT mean she purchased gasoline. Tosoro is like a 7-11 - where snacks, drinks, and convenient articles can also be purchased.
I assume JA will claim she bought food at Tosoro for around $20.

She can claim that, but she can't prove it. Nor can she erase JM's assertion that the amount equaled 5 gallons of gas. It's all about what the jury will believe and right now I think JM's winning this point.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Actually he didn't prove it, but showed that, circumstantially, she probably had one.

Since circumstantial evidence is evidence as it signifies I do think he did prove it.

 

[sweetmop]

I gotta ask... Is JVM watching the same trial I am? I thought JM was an absolute rock star and the biggest moment of the trial was catching her in a bald faced lie about the third gas can! Beth Karas is my hero and the only TH I trust completely!

Sometimes JVM gets on my last nerve, honestly!!!

:greetings: Glad you've joined us, krissij!!!

 

[Kamille]

As I have pointed out previously, the mysterious 3rd charge to Tosoro in SLC for $20 does NOT mean she purchased gasoline. Tosoro is like a 7-11 - where snacks, drinks, and convenient articles can also be purchased.
I assume JA will claim she bought food at Tosoro for around $20.

Do you know if the convenience store part of the gas station is open 24hrs?

TIA

 

[Magoo72]

Nancy has a blow up of her herpes sore .... Huge ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Linda, I tried to grab a shot of it, but the TV glare was too bright for the iPad. It was hilarious. She even started laughing about how awful it was. :floorlaugh:

 

[Linda7NJ]

And I have two other questions to add to yours for Mormon Attorney -

1) Do you think that Jodi will be back to "herself" on Wednesday as she will have had several days to get over today?

2) Would it be your opinion, dealing with the types of kids you deal with, that because Jodi knew that Travis was on to her (sociopathic text messages etc) that that possibly was a factor in her doing what she did? That she knew she couldn't fool him anymore and rather than just move on, she had to "react" instead? Hopefully this makes sense -I had a much more coherent response typed out and it didn't post

I know this wasn't directed at me.... IMO she's a psychopath. I think you are right. Google narcissistic injury ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Allyne Smithe]

OK someone is going to have to listen again but JM mentioned something about there being an account of her grandparents.

If you look more closely, there are different purchases between her gas charges, the rental car, etc.

She can't be getting gas in Monterey, Pasadena, killing in Arizona and filling up in Nevada multiple times.

So I am going to say that this is her grandparents account? That's why she had to fill up using the same method of purchase that last time...she had run out of her own money and was using her "emergency" card.

That's my take anyway. \

So to me that plane ticket could be for someone else, not Jodi.

IIRC JM pointed to the address shown on the statement and asked if that was her parents' address. She corrected him that it was her grandparents' address. The account was in her name only. Doubt the airline ticket was for anyone else. Everything that chick does is for Jodi and Jodi alone.

 

[TxJan1971]

<Snipped some>
For all the kids I work with, there is a high need for control, no empathy, no conscience. It is a sliding scale - some have serious issues, some are more mild. The nonsense lying is constant. It is a sign that they feel the need to control - like their life literally depends on it. For days, I have seen her have the flat affect and the blank eyes. Sometimes, when she says "I don't remember," I almost see her as dissociating. It is odd. You think about how many times she has said "I don't know" about her own reasons and her own feelings. Often, with my kids, that is the way it is. They literally cannot connect to their feelings enough to know why they did what they did. So much of it is truly reactive. That does not mean there is not planning. They are highly susceptible to tremendous rage and anger at the feeling of abandonment or loss of control - even perceived abandonment or loss of control. They have a very fake exterior. I call it the "china doll." It is the smiley, happy, totally in control face you see when she does all the interviews. It is so skilled it is uncanny. It is totally a survival mechanism that they have learned very early on. Out of all kids, these kids are the most socially adept and good at being believed. Even when flat out lying.

But, today has been different. I have to say it has hit me very hard personally. I got into this field because I adopted a child who has had extreme attachment issues. Due to years of helping my child, I have come to see first hand how hard it is to raise a child with these traits of no empathy and no conscience. Like someone posted the other day, you go round and round with the lies - the endless nonsense lies - even the control on little things like the mayonnaise and mustard. The blank eyes and china doll face. You always hope you can make a difference but daily you face issues like JM has on the stand. But, then there is a point. If you can hang in there and be lovingly therapeutic and outlast the chaos, there is a point that you can get to with these children that the total look of all their bottled up shame comes up. They let down their guard for a few moments and you can see the darkness, anger, rage, and pain they carry. Almost a look of defeat.

When I saw her deflated look, I knew she knew it was over. Today, instead of dark eyes and the smile, I could see the dark eyes and fallen countenance. I saw the "child" that was stunted many many years ago. While she tries to come across as intelligent and is very sophisticated at the act, she seems to me to be emotionally stunted at a 12 year old level. Today, in her countenance, I could see "behind the curtain" of the wizard of Oz. The grand act came crashing down.

BBM
As an adopted mom of 3 siblings at the age of 8, 10 and 13... I could have copied your post verbatim and just signed my name. Thank you for sharing, and more importantly for all the work you do for all the troubled kids and their families.

Yes, Jodi needs to be held accountable for her actions, regardless of whatever she suffered in her childhood. It's just so tragic that whatever was "broken" inside Jodi and never addressed/resolved ultimately led to her committing a horrific and heinous murder of a charismatic young man at the prime of his life.

Even more tragic, when Jodi is locked away forever or put on death row, it will only be a matter of time before the next "Jodi," "Scott Peterson" or "unnamed broken child" emerges and history will repeat itself.

Thanks again for continuing to fight the good fight ...

 

[ttcRider]

I hope Nurmi puts her on suicide watch now. :crazy:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

She can claim that, but she can't prove it. Nor can she erase JM's assertion that the amount equaled 5 gallons of gas. It's all about what the jury will believe and right now I think JM's winning this point.

I think he has won every point he has made thus far and we still will see more CE before he is through that we didnt know existed.

I love how Juan is a master of timing. He knows exactly when to bring things forth to have the most positive impact.

IMO

 

[snowcat]

That is creepy/funny!! Lots of Mormons in my family. They use "edify" a lot. Also "magnify". If I hear JA say that I will LOL!! I Googled de-edify and got a hit on some home based business site. She probably picked up that word at PPL. (I think somebody else mentioned that last night.)

the edify and de-edify thing is so funny because like everything else she says, it sounds so fake and unnatural when she says it...doesn't sound right from her..normal people may continue to use these words, just not Frapp girl..

 

[TartLemon]

Jodi is adamant there was no blood when she shot Travis. It's obvious the casing found is AFTER there was blood. Since they don't have the gun, it's entirely possible more than one shot was fired.

I don't care what she says, Jodi still doesn't think she did anything wrong. She shoots Travis, he comes after her yelling "kill you b****" and Jodi thinks HER life was in danger?