17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #6

[m00c0w]

GZ sounded pretty calm on the 911 tape, and he gives them specific directions to get to where he is at. I don't even know why he would need the additional street name, especially in a very small complex---and after he had given officers his cell phone to track him down.

That part about finding the street name doesn't make sense. A little bit of a lie mixed in with the truth makes the whole thing hinky IMO...and for the record, I feel the same way about the marijuana possession and the suspension.

I can agree with that. It also doesn't make sense why he'd lie about something like that if he was clearly somewhere that wouldn't seem plausible.

Then again, why would the father lie about something that's easily verifiable? I guess he could have assumed the school/police wouldn't release that information. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

Can you quote where you pulled this from? TIA

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3C2SHZWAYY

If Trayvon tried to "grab the gun" he would have had to seen it. I believe Zimmerman pulled that gun out and that is when the altercation started. I have always believed that is what happened.

 

[m00c0w]

I hope the cops got Zimmerman locked into a story on videotape early on so he can't wiggle out of it later and say "i didn't really say that" or "they wrote my statement down wrong"

they should've also got his reinactment of the altercation on video.

It could be compared later to the 911 call.

I noticed the cops are not talking about Trayvon's injuries, if any. that's odd.

He would have made the written statement himself. I believe the news report even stated "In his written statement." JMO

 

[tlcya]

I don't think he chased TM and shot him because he didn't like the way he looked. I think he was concerned TM was casing houses and trying to keep an eye on him until LE arrived.

I think TM's reactions and behavior were normal. I don't place blame on TM. I think this was the textbook definition of an incident spiraling out of control. Neither GZ nor TM read the other correctly. But it didn't need to end with the taking of a 17-year old's life. If GZ had not had a gun, this would not have happened. I blame the bad legislation of "stand your ground."

:goodpost:

Bless you, this is how I feel as well. I feel this so easily could have ended without a dead teen and a national furor with racial overtones. Except there was a gun there and a law which seems to allow for too much latitude.

Thank you.

ETA I believe this is why the Official neighborhood watch program instructs their members NOT to follow and NOT to engage. I am pretty sure they discourage watchers from carrying weapons as well. Why? IMO so that situations exactly like this one can be avoided at all costs.

 

[m00c0w]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3C2SHZWAYY

If Trayvon tried to "grab the gun" he would have had to seen it. I believe Zimmerman pulled that gun out and that is when the altercation started. I have always believed that is what happened.

He could have just as easily felt it when he was straddling Zimmerman, or seen it if Zimmerman's shirt rode up. He could have tried to grab it when Zimmerman drew it as he was being pounded on. Martin seeing the gun doesn't mean anything; he was obviously shot, so it would make sense that he saw it.

 

[vlpate]

If so inclined, this article takes a break from bashing Zimmerman

Trayvon Martin: New photo, details of George Zimmerman's employment

"In hiding since the shooting, little is publicly known about him. However, new details have emerged, shedding light on Zimmerman's religious upbringing and his employment before the shooting.

Two sources have confirmed to the Orlando Sentinel that Zimmerman is, or until recently was, an employee at the Maitland office of Digital Risk, LLC, a mortgage risk-management firm."

 

[LolaMoon08]

So my question again would be:

If you were being watched, followed, confronted and you seen that the person had a gun... what would you do?

 

[Isabelle]

The photo of George Zimmerman in the reddish-orange shirt is a booking photo from 2005. Is there a current booking photo, or was one taken?

 

[fromageball]

If Zimmerman really had wanted to defend himself, he would have done as the 911 operator said and not pursued Trayvon Martin. It doesn't really matter if GZ thought TM was carrying a gun - as the 911 operator said, that was not his problem. GZ wanted to play hero so he went against what 911 said, pursued TM, and ultimately shot and killed him.

It doesn't really matter what Trayvon did here, fighting back, etc, because he would have been defending himself. What would any of us do if we were followed and confronted in our own neighborhood by someone in a car with a gun? Hopefully not "cooperate" - what would it even mean to cooperate in this situation? Allow the gunman to do whatever he wanted?

From what Treyvon's friends have said about his normal behavior, it seems more likely that Zimmerman was acting threatening when he approached TM, leading to a scuffle and ultimately to shooting Trayvon. That wouldn't surprise me at all - anyone who would blatantly disobey the 911 operator and pursue someone in a car with a gun doesn't seem to be looking to end things peacefully.

 

[Juliet10]

Zimmerman also aggressively attacked a police officer and put his hands on him unprovoked. He also sounded very aggressive and angry on the 911 call. he does not go back to his truck the entire 911 call.

 

[RoseRed]

Well if they show a mugshot of GZ, shouldn't they have shown the pics of TM with the tats, grill, sagging pants and flipping off the camera? Seems like that would be fair.

Look at he difference in his neck and shoulder muscles. Big muscular kid not a baby face 12 yr. old like he has been portrayed.

 

[beach]

No Doc, I do not, it's been a few days since I found the picture and saved it - it should still be on google images. If I have to link to the obvious, that the picture of CZ is much more recent than the one we're accustomed to seeing from a documented five years ago, we're all in trouble.

My point was, posting this picture is really bothering people and I'm terribly curious as to why. What difference does it make, both are obviously pictures of TM and CZ. Does it diminish or increase our perception of who they are? Should it?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-job-20120323,0,7163107.story
ETA: Took all of two seconds to find the link, sorry:

Thanks for the eta adding the link.

While we are on this subject, just an FYI -

Sorry, but every photo has to be linked to its original source for a few reasons. The most important one is to give credit to the original source. Additionally, we have been made aware of certain photos making their way via the web that are being presented as TM but have since been proven to not be TM.

So, please....if you want to post a photo, have the link handy.

:tyou:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I have a theory about him and his need for attention He called 911 46 times so he could garner attention and praise from it something like a person who maligns medical problems for attention He just took too far this time IMO

There is such a disconnect between that recent picture of Zimmerman and his professional status and the whiny, tattle tailing busy body I hear on the 911 tape and from reading the previous 911 calls.

I really think there is something wrong with him.

 

[m00c0w]

So my question again would be:

If you were being watched, followed, confronted and you seen that the person had a gun... what would you do?

Certainly not approach him, punch him in the face, and then straddle him. It would make more sense that the gun was not seen until after the altercation started. There is nothing to point to Zimmerman having had the weapon out before the fight. I'm pretty sure it would have been mentioned in the phone call with the girlfriend if that was the case.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Zimmerman also aggressively attacked a police officer and put his hands on him unprovoked. He also sounded very aggressive and angry on the 911 call. he does not go back to his truck the entire 911 call.

He also has a domestic violence history?

 

[gxm]

If SYG did not exist, why do you think Zimmerman would still not be able to claim self defense and be in the exact same position? He'd have just been formally arrested and charged; none of this implies guilt.

Yes. ITA. But, as I understand it (and IANAL), self defense requires retreat. IMO, GZ used unreasonable force but as I understand it (and IANAL) stand your ground allows unreasonable force. JMO, of course.

ETA: FWIW, I have heard lawyers, one was GZ's I believe, say that his case is more of a self defense case than a stand your ground case.

 

[m00c0w]

Zimmerman also aggressively attacked a police officer and put his hands on him unprovoked. He also sounded very aggressive and angry on the 911 call. he does not go back to his truck the entire 911 call.

He was never convicted of this. The record was also expunged, so I'm not sure where you got these "facts" surrounding the arrest. JMO

 

[LinasK]

If so inclined, this article takes a break from bashing Zimmerman

Trayvon Martin: New photo, details of George Zimmerman's employment

"In hiding since the shooting, little is publicly known about him. However, new details have emerged, shedding light on Zimmerman's religious upbringing and his employment before the shooting.

Two sources have confirmed to the Orlando Sentinel that Zimmerman is, or until recently was, an employee at the Maitland office of Digital Risk, LLC, a mortgage risk-management firm."

I guess the Catholic comes from the Hispanic side of the family. I'm really surprised because the surname Zimmerman is German/Jewish!

 

[mikeysmommom]

You're kidding, right?

He did a bit more than just "lay a hand" on him.

Until privy to all the details of the autopsy report, we don't know for certain what other, if any, injuries TM may have sustained.

No I was serious, we know TM was shot but we do not know GZ laid his hands on TM first.

 

[Footwarrior]

This is where we disagree. If there was a scuffle between the two, IMO Travyon was DEFENDING himself. Afterall, GZ was the one stalking Trayvon in the dark with a gun. According to Trayvon's girlfriend he tried to give the slip to the creepy guy stalking him. I believe GZ cut off Trayvon thru a shortcut. At that point Trayvon had to defend himself, he couldn's escape his stalker with the gun.

jmo

The 911 dispatcher told GZ not to go after the suspect. GZ had convinced himself he was following a criminal and wasn't going to let this one get away.

The fact that he hadn't actually witnessed a crime didn't seem to matter to GZ. George believed that all young black men were criminals. He had even called the police on on a 9 year old black kid that was walking through the neighborhood.