17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #6

[Horace Finklestein]

That would lead me to believe that the gun went off during a struggle.
The reason that GZ had the gun and was following this person with his gun, is what has most people upset, imo.
He should have left the gun in the vehicle, he should have stayed in the vehicle, these actions, to me, show that GZ was looking for an altercation and he got it. That makes it his fault, imo.

Then would you say TM's attack on GZ was permissible, because GZ had the temerity to follow Trayvon? No evidence he was looking for an altercation, either.

 

[ohiogirl]

Sadly, Trayvon may have believed *he* was a victim (given the circumstances of being followed by a total stranger in a car and backed up by Zimmerman's own cell phone call to 911) of and attacked Zimmerman in self defense.

Where is his voice to be heard? Zimmerman provoked Trayvon. Was this the outcome Zimmerman ever thought was possible? No, I doubt that sincerely. However, Zimmerman made a very conscience decision to track Trayvon. He is completely responsible for how it ended.

imvho

Exactly!

 

[rossva]

This post deserves more than just a click on "THANKS"

Excellent post.

That's not true. I am a dual board certified criminal defense attorney, and until I wrote my blog the other night, I was unsure of the in and outs of the Stand Your Ground law. Especially since there are very few articles on what exactly t means.

Honestly, listening to many people here, it seems opinions are based on pure speculation so that they can continue to paint GZ as the bad guy.

After reading the information released by Sanford PD, I think GZ was completely within his rights to react the way he did.

 

[tlcya]

GZ was going to the grocery store he was aware of crime so he was carrying his gun.When he saw TM and got suspicious so IMO he was not in his role as neighborhood watch.It would seem IMO he was a citizen who has a permit to carry and was exercising his right to have his gun on him.He was going on an errand to the store not patrolling on his watch.

I am not sure how his following of TM and decision not to disengage as suggested by dispatch after finding out LE was on their way is MORE understandable or excusable because he was not acting at the time as captain but as private citizen?

ETA it would seem to me that GZ was doing both things at once. Grocery run/neighborhood watch.

 

[m00c0w]

That would lead me to believe that the gun went off during a struggle.
The reason that GZ had the gun and was following this person with his gun, is what has most people upset, imo.
He should have left the gun in the vehicle, he should have stayed in the vehicle, these actions, to me, show that GZ was looking for an altercation and he got it. That makes it his fault, imo.

Merely carrying your gun does not imply you're looking for a confrontation. There were burglaries in the neighborhood; one included a car break-in. I never leave my weapon in an unattended vehicle when I can help it. One of the laws currently going through the GA legislature is to allow weapons in state-owned government buildings because of their locations downtown. It's not that the gun owner thinks they will have a confrontation inside the building; it's because they know that the gun is not as likely to get stolen off of their person as it is sitting in an unattended vehicle in an area with a history of break-ins.

I don't think it was unreasonable for Zimmerman to have not left his weapon in his vehicle. Keep in mind, he was allegedly on a personal errand (to get groceries) immediately prior to this. JMO

 

[mikeysmommom]

Do you honestly believe that Zimmerman was going to allow Trayvon to reach in his pocket (I think he had earbuds in his ears?) and call 911? Do you honestly believe at that moment that Zimmerman was going to allow Trayvon to do anything? He had the gun! He had the power!

TM had time before he was face to face with GZ to call 911.Why didn't he?For a time TM according to his GF thought he lost GZ he could have called 911 then.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't see the relevance of tats or teeth. Is it more OK to kill someone with tattoos than someone with none? Is it a valid defense for homicide to say that the victim had had dental work done?

 

[vlpate]

I have a feeling the "you got me man" statement (if Zimmerman really said Martin said that) could be trouble depending on where Trayvon was shot.

He was shot in the chest according to an MSM article, Miami Herald, maybe, posted somewhere up-thread around 10:30 today.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Because when he seen the gun his reaction was the pushing and struggling she heard? Do you think he had time to tell his girlfriend... Yo, he's got a gun? No, he reacted! Like every normal person would when confronted by a man with a gun who had been following them.

Someone sees a gun and their reaction is to attack that person? Is there any evidence that he saw the gun? Or that GZ pulled the gun out?

 

[m00c0w]

I wonder if it could have been Zimmerman's nose that obstructed it from going back all the way?

How is this constructive?

 

[rossva]

From the article: "Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said."

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/n...ired_once_not_twice_by_crime_watch_volunteer/

Where did you read there was abullet in the chamber?

Thank you - but that quote you posted doesn't make any sense. A full magazine and a bullet in the chamber - then where did the bullet come from that shot Trayvon?

Glad they found the casing - wonder where it was and how well documented that find was?




JMHO

 

[ohiogirl]

Then would you say TM's attack on GZ was permissible, because GZ had the temerity to follow Trayvon? No evidence he was looking for an altercation, either.

If he didn't want an altercation, he would have backed off like the 911 operator told him too. jmo

 

[SuziQ]

So my question again would be:

If you were being watched, followed, confronted and you seen that the person had a gun... what would you do?

Long story as to how I know this. Personal survey over the last couple of decades, People have told me they would fight or try to talk their way out of it because they are afraid if they run they will get shot in the back. Correct answer is to run from a gun but people are afraid to.

 

[gxm]

Have you ever been in that situation? Do you think Trayvon should have run again? He had already run away once? He should take the chance to get shot in the back? You don't think Zimmerman would have chased after him anyways? If Trayvon would have peed himself, Zimmerman would have called 911 for Trayvon urinating in public.

You asked for a "normal" reaction. I don't think there is a "normal" reaction. Everyone will react differently. But, IMO, I don't think Trayvon was aware of a gun. It just doesn't make sense to stand over a man with a gun. I don't think Trayvon was aware of the gun until it was too late. JMO, of course.

 

[tpgks]

Do you honestly believe that Zimmerman was going to allow Trayvon to reach in his pocket (I think he had earbuds in his ears?) and call 911? Do you honestly believe at that moment that Zimmerman was going to allow Trayvon to do anything? He had the gun! He had the power!

PD were en-route..a couple of minutes away. Do you really think that Zimmerman, knowing this, would have shot Trayvon in ANY other situation than in a fight?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

It's a little more difficult to outrun a bullet from a husky man's gun.

Are you implying Trayvon was shot while running away? link? It's pretty well established that the shot happened during a fight that police say was started by TM.

 

[joypath]

And if Trayvon was repeatedly slamming Zimmerman's head on the ground, you're telling me he wouldn't need to go to the hospital?

:woohoo:His "NEED" to go to the hospital was minimized by his own REFUSAL to go!

He, according to published newspaper reports, accepted SFD "first aid" at the scene............... I would LOVE to see the original run sheet, paramedic notes and specifically the signed AMA document that I lease: HOPE lease: SFD staff received from GZ THAT NIGHT!

GZ took a huge chance, IMVHO, on his own life continuing as " repeatedly slamming Zimmerman's head on the ground" (and further news reports claim that the "ground" in question was the SIDEWALK), GZ was, again IMHO, at high risk of a coup and contracoup closed head injury (and depending where the impacts occurred, epidural hematoma). :truce: Any how, bet he had one "dizzy" of a headache, maybe even a little blurred vision & nausea! :what:

 

[LolaMoon08]

TM had time before he was face to face with GZ to call 911.Why didn't he?For a time TM according to his GF thought he lost GZ he could have called 911 then.

Yes, he could have, but he thought he had lost him and was safe. Unfortunately, he wasn't and it was too late by the time he realized this guy wasn't going to stop following him. It was over the moment Zimmerman caught back up with him. He wasn't going to get away!

 

[Salem]

That's not true. I am a dual board certified criminal defense attorney, and until I wrote my blog the other night, I was unsure of the in and outs of the Stand Your Ground law. Especially since there are very few articles on what exactly t means.

Honestly, listening to many people here, it seems opinions are based on pure speculation so that they can continue to paint GZ as the bad guy.

After reading the information released by Sanford PD, I think GZ was completely within his rights to react the way he did.

This is good stuff Richard. From your blog, I quote:

[/quote]Did George Zimmerman Provoke the Fight?
As I explained previously, Florida Statute 776.041, states that a person cannot raise self defense if they provoked the fight.
And that begs the question, what would be considered provoking the fight. While most people (including myself) focus on the fact George Zimmerman:
1.Disobeyed the 911 Dispatcher, left his car, and followed Trayvon Martin; and
2.Brought his firearm with him, although lawfully concealed.
neither of these acts are illegal and would not be considered legally provocative acts.
So unless George Zimmerman told police that he went up either waiving his gun around or went up and started a fight with Trayvon Martin, his acts of getting out of his car with his firearm concealed and following Trayvon would not make him the aggressor. Thus 776.041 would not apply.
[/quote]

I think important parts left out of the above discussion include that GZ was informed that units were on their way. GZ made statements indicating "these guys always get away." So it is necessary to look at GZ's intent in approaching TM. The intent, as shown my GZ's words, is definitely provocative, in my opinion.

Salem

 

[vlpate]

I don't see the relevance of tats or teeth. Is it more OK to kill someone with tattoos than someone with none? Is it a valid defense for homicide to say that the victim had had dental work done?

No relevance in my mind, but I think we both know that the tattooed TM would not have garnered nearly the public outrage as the 12 and 14 yr. old TM. We might not find tats sketchy, but trust me, many people still associate them with criminals..