17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Kimberlyd125]

His family is speaking now live on HLN

 

[tlcya]

I find that hard to believe.

Perhaps the witnesses are jumping on the bandwagon.

or, equally possible, witnesses did feel "led" in their statements. Only time will tell.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

or, equally possible, witnesses did feel "led" in their statements. Only time will tell.

Exactly.

That's why I feel it's important to let the investigators do their jobs.

All these protests and rallies demanding arrest are doing no good.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

The law is a good one, I agree with what you were posting. I would want to know that if I hit an armed intruder in my home over the head with an iron frying pan and killed them that I would have some protection under the law. Most people disagree in this case because they see GZ as the aggressor because he pursued TM when he did not have to. I see the potential for the law either to be rewritten and if not, I fear it will be gone. Public pressure will do that. jmo

I just can't fathom how they'd change the law. I don't think most people understand what the law actually does, and just assume it's evil because it's playing a role in this case.

 

[LambChop]

“It’s raining. He’s just walking around, looking about,” Zimmerman told the dispatcher. “He’s just staring looking at all the houses.”


Some inyterpreted that to mean he was casing houses. Probably he was just lost.

He was on the phone talking so I doubt TM was even aware of how he appeared. Once GZ started to follow him I'm sure he was looking towards the homes to see if there was someone who he could go to for help. LE would take time to get there but a person standing on their porch, walking their dog, jogging could have helped him immediately. I know that is what I would be doing if I felt someone were following me. jmo

 

[tlcya]

“It’s raining. He’s just walking around, looking about,” Zimmerman told the dispatcher. “He’s just staring looking at all the houses.”


Some inyterpreted that to mean he was casing houses. Probably he was just lost.

I am thinking he was trying to find his way back to dad's fiance's house. He was simply staying there temporarily, and so, in the dark, and the rain, was probably checking address or building numbers to reassure himself he was indeed headed the right direction. All those condos seem to look alike.

 

[katydid23]

I think the truth of this tragedy is somewhere in between both sides. All of these protestors saying how unfair it is to racially profile black teens wearing hoodies are ignoring the fact that there are a lot of hoodie wearing black teens who are stealing and assaulting and scaring the public. That is what is behind much of the profiling. And those behind GZ have to admit that he was way out of line and should have never stepped foot out of his car. He should be on trial so they can sort this out.

But it is unfair the way both sides are trying to paint their version of reality. That angelic picture of TM in his football uniform is way outdated. I don't think he could pass the drug test to play on his team, and being suspended 3 times and punching a bus driver is very troubling, imo.

 

[rotterdam]

And I would think GZ would have been in fairly close proximity to Trayvon to fire the gun into Trayvon's chest. I would think this esp in the case of self defense and witnesses saying they saw Trayvon on top of GZ, while there was screaming for help that suddenly stopped when the shot was sounded. He had to have Trayvon's blood on him, we just don't have that information.

It depends. Was GZ standing up when he fired at Tray or in prone position under Tray. All we know is that he fired at Tray at very close range
We just do not know.

 

[tlcya]

Exactly.

That's why I feel it's important to let the investigators do their jobs.

All these protests and rallies demanding arrest are doing no good.

JMO

I think the rallies and protests were initially necessary to garner the needed attention to get the investigation the Martin family wanted into the circumstances of TM's death. Now that THAT has been achieved and that investigation is being done (by someone besides SPD who the AA community does not seem to have much confidence in because of past issues) the need for protests and rallies is past IMO.

On that we can agree.

 

[vlpate]

I think John was within his rights because he was not engaging these men, did not seek them out, did not follow them in any way. Not the case with GZ having been told to let LE handle it he alone made the decision to pursue.

This case will hurt the stand your ground law because those who are innocent victims could lose the power of this law. The same outrage that pressured this law to be passed will now cause it to be removed. It was meant for someone who is going about their business, minding their business, on their property, getting into their property or just standing outside a restaurant and being threatened. Basically it's 'I was minding my own business and someone threatened my life'. GZ was not doing that. He pursued TM when he did not have to. No one asked him to give chase, he was told to stand down and wait for LE to get there. He did not do that. The minute he started after TM he became the aggressor because TM did not know who he was. The only one who could have controlled the event was GZ. LE could not stop it from happening, although they tried. jmo

BEM: Have the police stated this, that GZ "gave chase"?

BEM2: Without seeing this question as my taking a side, would you agree that TM could have gone home instead of hanging around? Any thoughts on what he may have been doing while GZ lost sight of him?

 

[mikeysmommom]

I think it was pictures of the jewelry were sent to Miami-Dade. The school kept the jewelry. I doubt they still have it and it could be the owner claimed it. I can't imagine the school keepting the jewelry if it were never claimed. What if it belonged to TM's mother? The school would have no right to keep it and not tell her. I don't think we have to full story on this one other than he was never charged regarding the jewelry which tells me it belonged to someone else and they eventually got the name. jmo

If you read the article it states he was asked if it was his mothers or a family members and TM said no it is a friends but refused to give name.Police should say what happened to it IMO.If a friend owned said jewelry he would have claimed it.

 

[LambChop]

I just can't fathom how they'd change the law. I don't think most people understand what the law actually does, and just assume it's evil because it's playing a role in this case.

This is a case of mistaken identity, followed by a pursuit by an individual not required to do so that ended up in an altercation that left one person dead. It's one thing to report to LE and be mistaken, it's entirely different when you take the law into your own hands. Not GZ's job to pursue, his job was to stay with his car until LE arrived. Had he listened TM would still be alive and would have made it home by the time LE finally arrived. This is why people are outraged that he wasn't at least charged with manslaughter. Plus missing a couple of days of work seems a small price to pay when someone you shot died. jmo

 

[claudicici]

I just don't think it matters how "bad" Trayvon was.....TRAYVON IS DEAD TRAYVON IS CLEARLY THE VICTIM How many teens do we know that smoke dope or do petty crime?It's common.I don't care whether or not Trayvon was suspended no matter how many times,I don't care whether or not he stole or smoked dope.
Trayvon CLEARLY did not go after Zimmerman.IF Trayvon really punched GZ,broke his nose,went for his gun or whatever it is CLEARLY Trayvon that would have acted under the "Stand the ground law",I don't understand one bit why people are arguing that this law applies if a grown armed man follows an unarmed minor and kills him .

 

[vlpate]

I am thinking he was trying to find his way back to dad's fiance's house. He was simply staying there temporarily, and so, in the dark, and the rain, was probably checking address or building numbers to reassure himself he was indeed headed the right direction. All those condos seem to look alike.

He went out between a gap in the fence on the street side, IIRC. He knew where the 711 was. His house was a straight shot, by the back entrance - where he was headed when he started running. I don't buy that he was lost.

 

[LambChop]

If you read the article it states he was asked if it was his mothers or a family members and TM said no it is a friends but refused to give name.Police should say what happened to it IMO.If a friend owned said jewelry he would have claimed it.

And, IMO, that is what happened. The school does not have the right to involve another student in this case. They took no other action with TM wouldn't that be all they are obligated to release. jmo

 

[Isabelle]

I find that hard to believe.

Perhaps the witnesses are jumping on the bandwagon.

LE's encouraging a change in statements was done very early on and was reported around that time. Think about it, who could these witnesses complain to, LE??

 

[vlpate]

Today this is a hate crime and racial profiling....according to Trayvon's mother. Stores are being turned upside down. The Panthers are prowling around looking for Zimmerman.

The parents are against this though.

WTH.

 

[rotterdam]

Yes. Violence. Which GZ claims was a reaction (of self defense) to an act of violence against him. There is, at this point, no evidence to disprove GZ's account. Unfortunately, IMO, the window to obtain substantial evidence is closed. The case should have been handled better, much better. But at this point, I don't think there's enough evidence to convict GZ. Just hearsay and accounts that are weeks old (not obtained immediately) and IMO tainted by the witch hunt aftermath. IMO, JMO, MOO, etc.

GZ admitted to committing a homicide. Whether if is a criminal homicide under current Fla law, is what all the ruckus is about. Or if hate crime can be established , it would fall under Fed Law and no SYG statute there.

 

[csziggy]

Exactly.

That's why I feel it's important to let the investigators do their jobs.

All these protests and rallies demanding arrest are doing no good.

JMO

If the Sanford Police Department did not have their history of not doing their jobs, I might agree. But they have a very notorious reputation for NOT doing their jobs:

Before unarmed black teen was shot, Fla. city’s blacks complained of bias in police department

<SNIP>
Lee’s predecessor, Brian Tooley, retired early when faced with criticism that Sanford police dragged its feet in arresting Justin Collison on charges of knocking out a homeless black man.

It took a month for Collison, the son of a police lieutenant, to be arrested and charged in 2010 with battery, even though the attack was captured on video. Collison eventually pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor and was sentenced to probation late last year.

The department was also criticized for delaying the arrest of two security guards with close ties to the department who shot a 16-year-old boy to death in 2005. The guards were arrested several months after the shooting and were eventually cleared.

One of the two guards who shot Travares McGill was a police volunteer and the other was the son of a former police officer. Bryan Ansley and William Swofford claimed they feared for their lives when they shot the teen through a car window.

More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...department/2012/03/23/gIQAs5hoWS_story_1.html

Fatal bullet hit teenager in back, records reveal
They also show that 2 security guards failed to identify themselves before firing at Travares McGill at a Sanford complex.
January 29, 2006|By Rene Stutzman, Sentinel Staff Writer

SANFORD -- Security guard William Patrick Swofford told investigators he opened fire on 16-year-old Travares McGill last summer because he felt he was in imminent danger. McGill was coming at him in a car, tires squealing.

But a review of more than 600 pages of evidence shows that the bullet that killed McGill hit him in the middle of the back and that Swofford kept firing after the car was no longer headed toward him.

The fatal bullet, one of three to hit McGill, tore through his back, ripped open his aorta and penetrated his heart, according to an autopsy report. Seconds later, McGill's car slowed, began to coast, then plowed into a nearby fence.

<SNIP>

The shooting prompted complaints from the Seminole County chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which accused Sanford police of protecting rather than arresting the guards. Swofford was a department volunteer, and Ansley is the son of a former longtime Sanford officer.

More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-01-29/news/GUARDS29_1_sanford-ansley-security-guards

Warrant Out for Lieutenant's Son After Video Release

By AMANDA VANALLEN
Dec. 30, 2010

Florida police are investigating why cops did not arrest the son of a police lieutenant who allegedly punched a homeless man from behind and knocked him unconscious.

"After I saw the video I was shocked," Sanford Chief of Police Brian Tooley told ABC News. "I was very surprised after watching that video that we did not make an arrest that night."

Tooley said as of Wednesday night there is a warrant out for the arrest of Justin Collison, 21. He is being charged with aggravated battery, which is a felony. Tooley said he is disappointed in his department, especially because this case directly involved someone in the department.

"Since this involved the lieutenant's son, we should have made sure everything was [done] according to the books," Tooley said. "It wasn't handled well at all."

More: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/police-li...g-homeless-man/story?id=12507834#.T3I6ytmP_Kg

Those two are just the highest profile cases, but there have been many instances where SPD has not bothered with a proper investigation. That is why Chief Bill Lee's predecessor was replaced. Chief Lee was supposed to be cleaning up the PD.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I just don't think it matters how "bad" Trayvon was.....TRAYVON IS DEAD TRAYVON IS CLEARLY THE VICTIM How many teens do we know that smoke dope or do petty crime?It's common.I don't care whether or not Trayvon was suspended no matter how many times,I don't care whether or not he stole or smoked dope.
Trayvon CLEARLY did not go after Zimmerman.IF Trayvon really punched GZ,broke his nose,went for his gun or whatever it is CLEARLY Trayvon that would have acted under the "Stand the ground law",I don't understand one bit why people are arguing that this law applies if a grown armed man follows an unarmed minor and kills him .

There are a few things in this post that are not quite clear IMO.

IMO TM may be the victim, or may not be. If he attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman acted in self defense, TM would not be the victim. Death does not automatically make you the victim.

I also don't believe your statement that CLEARLY Trayvon didn't go after Zimmerman. We don't know that. I don't think that is clear.

I think there are a lot of assumptions that may or may not be true in this case.