17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Dr.Fessel]

I just watched the clip of Zimmerman's lawyer on JVM and he says Zimmerman might have a broken nose. Does not say he does.

 

[vlpate]

I hadnt read this before, about going a back way to 711. Do you have a link? Tia

I didn't say he went the back way to the 711, just to clarify, but through a gap in the fence - here's what I must have read, this was posted by someone else a while back - and contained within, yet more timeline discrepancies. :banghead:

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

There is a video of his dad on this. I find it odd that the first line of this article is "Trayvon may have cut through an opening in the wall that surrounds the gated community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes, where there are only bushes separating the back swale from the street."

Why the conjecture here? Was there no video of Trayvon walking out the gates? I mean, why pose this scenario?

 

[rotterdam]

What would keep them from doing this with self-defense as merely an affirmative defense?

SYG only makes it so that you don't get arrested or go to trial without probable cause to believe it was unlawful, which is how it should be. Police could just as easily look the other way before SYG. That's what I think a lot of people are missing.

But it also expanded the castle doctrine to the rest of the world.

 

[vlpate]

I just watched the clip of Zimmerman's lawyer on JVM and he says Zimmerman might have a broken nose. Does not say he does.

His lawyer is a real spark plug, isn't he! So monotone.

 

[Sensei]

The Special Prosecutor just said on JVM that the investigators believe that there might be an eyewitness who saw the entire incident and they are attempting to track all the witnesses down. That would be a good thing.

 

[m00c0w]

I dislike the law because it is abused to justify vigilante behavior.If Trayvon would have ended up killing Zimmerman I feel he could have used this law as justification as well....and that still doesn't make it right in my opinion.It is not free will that constitutes probable cause
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/probable+cause

I can't discuss the case you mention because you did not link to an article and I am not familiar with it

Probable cause is a belief. It's a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed that is based on articulable facts. Whether probable cause exists or not is a fairly nebulous, because what may be considered PC to one person may only be reasonable suspicion to another. There are a few things that are always definitely probable cause, but as a general idea it's much more vague. This is why grand juries are sometimes held to determine if there's probable cause enough to indict someone.

Any law, for that matter, can be abused. Even before the SYG law, the police and prosecutor could determine there was not enough probable cause to charge Zimmerman. The necessity of probable cause was not created with the stand your ground law. It simply prevents arrest due to the mere use of force. If the police already weren't going to arrest someone when there was probable enough cause, it wouldn't matter if the law existed or not.

 

[jjenny]

The Special Prosecutor just said on JVM that the investigators believe that there might be an eyewitness who saw the entire incident and they are attempting to track all the witnesses down. That would be a good thing.

They believe there might be? I'd think they should already know who eyewitnesses are and what they claim to have seen.

 

[vlpate]

Did Trayvon actually have a bag of skittles on him, or did he tell his brother-to-be he was going to get skittles? Anyone know for sure?

 

[oh_gal]

I'm sorry, but you referred to "facts, which if true". If you claim that facts exist, than you need to be able to link to them. If they don't exist at all they aren't facts and their truth cannot be upheld or disproved.

It is a FACT that I read an article that stated that TM had gotten into fights. As I stated, I cannot find the story online anymore, which leads me to believe that it must have been speculation or a wild rumor, which is why it was removed.

Let's not split hairs, or argue just for arguments' sake. I stated, "if true," because we all know things are said, and are passed off as fact, when they are not.

Peace. Love. Joy, and all that jazz.

 

[HiHater]

They believe there might be? I'd think they should already know who eyewitnesses are and what they claim to have seen.

I agree, the police should have already had this information...I'm not surprised that they don't.

 

[m00c0w]

But it also expanded the castle doctrine to the rest of the world.

Which means what, exactly?

A person is no longer obligated to actively try to retreat when they fear for their lives. They can stand their ground. That has very little to do with this case. The part of the law that people are most up in arms about is the clause that prohibits arrest in a self-defense shooting unless probable cause exists to determine it was unlawful.

 

[Sensei]

They believe there might be? I'd think they should already know who eyewitnesses are and what they claim to have seen.

They have been on the case less than a week, even though they did work through the weekend, and the way it was stated makes it sound as if this is someone heretofore not discovered...hard to tell, but I hope it is true, no matter which way things go, certainty is to be desired when you are attempting to explain why a 17 yr old teen is dead by gunshot.

 

[rotterdam]

he isn't that fat, and Trayvon was NOT a football player, nor is there any evidence that he was a karate expert or in any way trained in the art of hand to hand combat...The question would be how did Martin get the upper hand?

I have seen a lot of fights, and scuffles, I have seen a lot more of the results of those fights and scuffles, since it is often that BOTH parties come in for treatment in handcuffs, and I have to say that it is a lot harder to kill someone with your bare hands than someone might think, and the idea that the an untrained kid could knock someone off their feet with one blow I find improbable as the idea that he would attack without warning ...IMO JMHO and stuff

Tray was a football player in middle school I believe. Kind of skinny for a football player anyway. But he surely packed a heck of a punch without any apparent training.

 

[Sensei]

Did Trayvon actually have a bag of skittles on him, or did he tell his brother-to-be he was going to get skittles? Anyone know for sure?

Yes, the items that the police found on him at the scene were a bag of skittles a can of Arizona iced tea, $22.00 and a cellphone.

 

[jjenny]

They have been on the case less than a week, even though they did work through the weekend, and the way it was stated makes it sound as if this is someone heretofore not discovered...hard to tell, but I hope it is true, no matter which way things go, certainty is to be desired when you are attempting to explain why a 17 yr old teen is dead by gunshot.

I don't know that I would trust a witness showing up a month later claiming to have seen the whole thing. Where was he or she before?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If what is being leaked is true, Trayvon is a pretty frigging strong individual to be able to punch a fat guy hard enough to get him countdown prone.

What does being fat have to do with how hard he would have to be punched?

I don't understand that.

 

[Sensei]

Tray was a football player in middle school I believe. Kind of skinny for a football player anyway. But he surely packed a heck of a punch without any apparent training.

I'm tellin ya, I have a neighbor who has a 22 yr old kid who wants to be an MMA fighter, and fights in some local events who said he really wishes he could pack that kind of punch. ( and he has training)

 

[rossva]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I REC'D TODAY

THE ABC Chicago Reporter DID make a MISTAKE. As far as they know, Martin DID NOT CALL 911

I can forward the email to a MOD if needed for verification.

RE: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting
WLS - TV News ([email protected]

To: REDACTED

Reporter Paul Meincke misspoke at the end of his Friday live report. He was doing a story about marchers in Chicago. At the end of his story while explaining that the FBI hopes to enhance audio from 911 recordings he misspoke when he said Trayvon Martin made a 911 call. Zimmerman and a number of witnesses made calls to 911. There are reports that Martin was on the phone with a friend at the time, but we do not have any information that Martin made a 911 call. We regret the error.

Thank you for watching and for taking the time to email us.



----Original Message-----
From: REDACTED
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:38 PM
To: WLS-TV News
Subject: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting

From: REDACTED
name: REDACTED
City: REDACTED
State: Florida
Zip: REDACTED
Phone: 321 REDACTED

Comments: Hello. In a report about the Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting in Sanford Fl, your reporter said that Trayvon Martin had made a call to 911. This has not been reported anywhere else; did Paul Meincke mean to say George Zimmerman had made the call to 911? Thanks

 

[Sensei]

I don't know that I would trust a witness showing up a month later claiming to have seen the whole thing. Where was he or she before?

You have all the information that was given, JVM will run again later tonight, if you wish to see the segment personally.

 

[kimpage]

So to all who think SYG applies to GZ.. Let me ask this why doesnt SYG apply to TM?????? No one has attempted to answer and it has been asked a few times on this thread...TM could have cliamed a SYG defense but he was murdered....

IMO,JMHO AND ALL THAT!!!!!!!!!!!