17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

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  • #81
By that same token, I think it's rather odd to release bits and pieces of info that are very favorable to Zimmerman...JMO Release everything, or just say you cannot due to an active investigation.

It's JMHO but I don't find that given "what" they chose to release that it's odd at all. I agree with what Mark NeJame said on JVM last night. They're in CYA propaganda mode. ( paraphrasing)

And I've always found this extremely disturbing;

Reports have also emerged that the patrol sergeant, Anthony Raimondo, in charge of the scene the night of Martin's shooting, was involved in another controversial case.

Justin Collinson, the son of a police officer, attacked a homeless man in 2010, but was not immediately arrested, even when a video emerged, according to WFTV. The station reported that Raimondo was the officer in charge the night of the attack.

When contacted by the Guardian about this report, the Sanford police department were unavailable for comment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/22/trayvon-martin-sanford-police-chief-steps-down


It's great that the FBI, Justice Dept and new investigators have taken over, I just hope that it's not too late.

JMHO
 
  • #82
I'm not implying that the dad didn't care about anything. I'm saying that it's weird that they know all of these details, like why Martin went to the 7-11 or that he even went to the 7-11, but the dad claims he thought Martin was with his cousin. It seems to me that if he knew he never came back from a trip to the 7-11 at the time, he would have not assumed he was with his cousin. Which makes me wonder where this information came from that describes what Martin was doing.

TM had his phone with him and could have called the cousin and asked if he wanted to go to the movies. The decision to go could have been a spur of the moment thing such as the cousin asking where he was and he'd pick him up because he was right down the street. TM didn't have to tell the 13 year old he wasn't coming back, he was 13 old enough to be alone in the house. It's not weird at all if you are a 17 year old single dude with nothing to do. It happens all the time without incident. TM did not live there so it's not like the 13 year old would think it was unusual and more so if TM had done this before. They're kids, the game comes on and he's involved with watching, or he played video games (try getting their attention when they are playing......good luck with that one). jmo
 
  • #83
I just posted this a few posts ago:
Sergeant David Morgenstern, a spokesman for Sanford Police, said that an autopsy was carried out on Trayvon Martin by a Volusia county medical examiner. He said Martin was checked for drugs and alcohol, which was a "routine part of the autopsy".

He said the investigation recovered Zimmerman's clothes from the night of the shooting and that they had custody of the gun. He confirmed that one shot had been fired.

Sounds like media misinformation to me.

Yes, but the 13 year-old son of his girlfriend remained at home.
So why did the father believe that Trayvon went out with his cousin, when the brother should have known he was making a trip to 7-11 to get him skittles?

Only the phone records, and the word of the young girl through the Martin family's attorney.

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/30718928/detail.html

I don't know why the department would refrain from acknowledging that they had contacted a crucial witness.

However, if you have a link that states the police were prevented by attorneys from speaking to the girlfriend, please share.
I believe it wound up being that the family did not release Trayvon's phone records until after the girl talked to ABC.

Both these women have stated that they saw GZ over TM with his knees pinning Trayvon's arms to the ground. One made numerous attempts to contact police to clear up discrepancies in the written report, but her calls were never returned. Both women stated that what they saw and heard led them to believe there was no way this was a case of self-defense.

And you still don't think there was probable cause to at least arrest GZ?
Yes, and I'm referring to their accounts in the media. They only saw what happened after the gunshot, and what they heard occurring before the gunshot is not in alignment with what the rest of the neighbors apparently heard. This is further backed up by 911 recordings with audible screams in the background almost immediately before the gunshot.
 
  • #84
That's normally how it happens isn't it? Bits and pieces come out. Never the whole investigation file.

I'm sure they feel pressured to arrest Zimmerman (as your siggy says) just due to the public outcry. Many of those who are doing the protests have little or no knowledge of the facts of the case. They just want an arrest.

Perhaps LE has information that we don't have that tells them an arrest would not be right.

I'm sure the details will come out.

Not bits and pieces favorable to one side...if the PD has no dog in this fight--I surely can't tell...
 
  • #85
Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

When I first read this, yesterday, I had a problem believing this fresh-faced, innocent looking teenager was the kind who would say or do such a thing.

Martin5-1.png


But after seeing what greeted me on my AOL home page this morning:

TMAOL.png


I'm not so sure anymore, especially after reading this:

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager
 
  • #86
TM had his phone with him and could have called the cousin and asked if he wanted to go to the movies. The decision to go could have been a spur of the moment thing such as the cousin asking where he was and he'd pick him up because he was right down the street. TM didn't have to tell the 13 year old he wasn't coming back, he was 13 old enough to be alone in the house. It's not weird at all if you are a 17 year old single dude with nothing to do. It happens all the time without incident. TM did not live there so it's not like the 13 year old would think it was unusual and more so if TM had done this before. They're kids, the game comes on and he's involved with watching, or he played video games (try getting their attention when they are playing......good luck with that one). jmo
The father said that he figured Martin was out with his cousin. Not that the brother said he had gone to the 7-11, and hadn't returned. I know, having a younger brother, that if I went to the store to get him something and didn't return that night, he would be very confused and upset about why I was not back when I said that I was getting him something and never even let him know that I was doing something else. It the entire characterization of Martin as having walked to the 7-11 to score some goodies for his brother that strikes me as odd. It doesn't fit in with the story; it sounds like something made up to win hearts and minds. JMO
 
  • #87
I am saying that if that was indeed the case, then Zimmerman should not have been taken to a police station for questioning without a thorough medical exam, and if they had to arrest him to make that happen that is what they should have done, because if he had had a subdural hematoma or bleeding on the brain, he could have keeled over dead with no particular warning, and the Sanford Police department would have been responsible and could NOT have avoided a law suit....

He was treated in the back of the squad car, by someone, an EMT, who if the injuries were as described not only dropped the ball but set himself up to be sued out of existance for malpractice, and brought up on criminal charges, because he is NOT covered by the "good samaritan law" When you are a trained health care professional you have specific responsibilites, and once you initiate the care of any person you are responsible...the EMT should and would if he was doing his job have told the LE on the scene that GZ, in spite of any waiver, was not fit to be taken to the Police Department for questioning without medical care unless they were willing to take the chance and ignore that he may have serious and even life threatening injuries.

This leads me to the logical conclusion that whatever injuries he claims and was treated for, they were not of a level that would support his head being smacked on the pavement, or a broken nose....IMO JMHO and stuff

Would the EMT have required GZ to sign a release if the injuries were so minor they only required an ice pack, or there was no gash and no longer blood from the nose or his head once he was cleaned up?
 
  • #88
  • #89
Not bits and pieces favorable to one side...if the PD has no dog in this fight--I surely can't tell...
With the DOJ involved, and with a new prosecutor... If it's such an open-and-shut case, why has an arrest not been made? Especially with the insane amounts of public pressure?
 
  • #90
  • #91
Would the EMT have required GZ to sign a release if the injuries were so minor they only required an ice pack, or there was no gash and no longer blood from the nose or his head once he was cleaned up?

For a head injury, probably.
 
  • #92
Would the EMT have required GZ to sign a release if the injuries were so minor they only required an ice pack, or there was no gash and no longer blood from the nose or his head once he was cleaned up?

If It were me, I would make him sign, I would have made the police sign a statment saying that they were aware that my suggestion was that he get medical treatment and that I had advised them all of the dangerous nature of head injuries.....If the completely refused transport after medical advice then he would be really dumb not to get a release, because he is responsible if something happens once he has initiated care.

The only way that I would NOT have them sign that relase would be if the injuries were of a superficial nature and I had no suspcion that anyone had had head trauma My own personal feeling is that the injuries could not have been much more than superficial if he went to the Police Station rather than to the hospital....a good thump on the head is usually preseaged by severe nausea, and a whopper of a headache, let alone how hard it is to talk with your face all swollen from a broken nose, a lot of times your eyes swell shut, and usually you can only breathe through your mouth till some swelling goes down, yet in this condition he wanted to go to the Police station instead of the Hospital....I am less than convinced..
 
  • #93
The father said that he figured Martin was out with his cousin. Not that the brother said he had gone to the 7-11, and hadn't returned. I know, having a younger brother, that if I went to the store to get him something and didn't return that night, he would be very confused and upset about why I was not back when I said that I was getting him something and never even let him know that I was doing something else. It the entire characterization of Martin as having walked to the 7-11 to score some goodies for his brother that strikes me as odd. It doesn't fit in with the story; it sounds like something made up to win hearts and minds. JMO

It was not his brother. They never lived together. IMO this child has been alone in the house many times without TM ever being there. He may have been disappointed that he never got the candy but it's possible on other visits TM may have gone off with the cousin before and not let this child know where he was going. I really do not think we are suppose to be sleuthing an innocent 13 year old as it has nothing to do with why TM was shot. jmo
 
  • #94
Not bits and pieces favorable to one side...if the PD has no dog in this fight--I surely can't tell...

They are under extreme pressure.

Perhaps they are trying to give us a snippet of what they have that is preventing arrest.

Perhaps they KNOW an arrest is not what needs to happen and they are trying to give us a glimpse of that.

JMO
 
  • #95
It was not his brother. They never lived together. IMO this child has been alone in the house many times without TM ever being there. He may have been disappointed that he never got the candy but it's possible on other visits TM may have gone off with the cousin before and not let this child know where he was going. I really do not think we are suppose to be sleuthing an innocent 13 year old as it has nothing to do with why TM was shot. jmo
He's certainly been characterized in the media as his brother. Why do you think that is, if not to gain an emotional advantage?

I'm not "sleuthing" the brother. I really couldn't care less about him. It's the entire story line I have fault with. I have asked numerous times where we got the story that he was going to 7-11 to get his "brother" candy, and have gotten no valid answers. It's just weird.
 
  • #96
If Zimmerman was beat up like he was, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that the police would have allowed him to decline medical treatment. That's the most ridiculous thing in this whole case particularly if he had head injuries. Do you honestly believe that the police department is going to assume ANY LIABILITY whatsoever if Zimmerman was beat up this badly and risk taking him to the station for questioning without ensuring that he was stable. I refuse to believe it. I refuse to believe that Trayvon punched a 250 lb man so hard that he knocked him on the ground. You can spin these two issues anyway you want to but there's no way it happened like this. Of course SDP is going to cover and justify their a$$es off and when the full truth of the matter is known, there's going to be a lot of heads spinning.

Unbelievable. I guess when you have a corrupt police department like that of SPD, you aren't surprised that black men are treated like they are in that town. So those that scream from the rooftops that this case isn't racial, sadly it is. There is too much proof of that starting all the way back to when the police lieutenant's son beat up the black man on the sidewalk. Disgusting is what it is.

Last but not least, Zimmerman has no one else to blame but himself for this. He should have stayed in his vehicle like he was told. He is such a liar and I hope he rots in hell the rest of his sorry life.


~jmo~
 
  • #97
If It were me, I would make him sign, I would have made the police sign a statment saying that they were aware that my suggestion was that he get medical treatment and that I had advised them all of the dangerous nature of head injuries.....If the completely refused transport after medical advice then he would be really dumb not to get a release, because he is responsible if something happens once he has initiated care.

The only way that I would NOT have them sign that relase would be if the injuries were of a superficial nature and I had no suspcion that anyone had had head trauma My own personal feeling is that the injuries could not have been much more than superficial if he went to the Police Station rather than to the hospital....a good thump on the head is usually preseaged by severe nausea, and a whopper of a headache, let alone how hard it is to talk with your face all swollen from a broken nose, a lot of times your eyes swell shut, and usually you can only breathe through your mouth till some swelling goes down, yet in this condition he wanted to go to the Police station instead of the Hospital....I am less than convinced..

I would also think that LE would have checked with the EMT to make sure he did not have to go to the hospital as they were about to question him. Had he had a concussion and made a statement of guilt it could cause LE problems. So I'm thinking LE knew he suffered no signs of anything serious enough that would affect his statement. jmo
 
  • #98
Why did the police "correct" a witness's statement? If they had all of their ducks in a row, that would be unnecessary. Why did they lead another witness? Again, if your case is solid, that's unnecessary. Why did police ignore witnesses? Same thing. Why are police responding to a witness in the media? Aren't witnesses usually tore down like that at a trial? What interest do the police have in making a witness look less than credible?

There's something wrong (Cindy Anthony voice).

I really think the piece of the puzzle, the most crucial piece, hasn't been revealed yet. JMO

Sources...
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...s-to-arrest-zimmerman-Trayvon-Martin-shooting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-George-Zimmerman-killed-son-skin-colour.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706876/sanford-commission-votes-no-confidence.html
 
  • #99
I would also think that LE would have checked with the EMT to make sure he did not have to go to the hospital as they were about to question him. Had he had a concussion and made a statement of guilt it could cause LE problems. So I'm thinking LE knew he suffered no signs of anything serious enough that would affect his statement. jmo

That is one of the things that I find extremely troubling, with GZ claiming a severe head injury, he could probably have admitted to being the second shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas, and an expert on head trauma can testify that people who sustain severe blows to the head are often confused and have problems remembering sometimes forever what came directly before or after the blow...This is NOT the person you want to question if you want to get a firm signed statement of what happened during an incident IMO JMHO and stuff
 
  • #100
If Zimmerman was beat up like he was, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that the police would have allowed him to decline medical treatment. That's the most ridiculous thing in this whole case particularly if he had head injuries. Do you honestly believe that the police department is going to assume ANY LIABILITY whatsoever if Zimmerman was beat up this badly and risk taking him to the station for questioning without ensuring that he was stable. I refuse to believe it. I refuse to believe that Trayvon punched a 250 lb man so hard that he knocked him on the ground. You can spin these two issues anyway you want to but there's no way it happened like this. Of course SDP is going to cover and justify their a$$es off and when the full truth of the matter is known, there's going to be a lot of heads spinning.

Unbelievable. I guess when you have a corrupt police department like that of SPD, you aren't surprised that black men are treated like they are in that town. So those that scream from the rooftops that this case isn't racial, sadly it is. There is too much proof of that starting all the way back to when the police lieutenant's son beat up the black man on the sidewalk. Disgusting is what it is.

Last but not least, Zimmerman has no one else to blame but himself for this. He should have stayed in his vehicle like he was told. He is such a liar and I hope he rots in hell the rest of his sorry life.


~jmo~
You're basing all of this off of what experience and firsthand knowledge of the emergency medical system and how police departments function? He was not under arrest; he could have left any any time. He was not being forcibly detained. He was voluntarily at the department to help investigators out. It is very likely that he signed a waiver that would have keep the city from being held liable as a result of untreated injuries. The police cannot compel someone to seek medial treatment; a paramedic cannot obligate someone to receive treatment. These are a lot of specious allegations that are grounded in little fact.

People ask why pictures aren't released. I would venture to say that it wouldn't do any good, because of people like you that already know 1000% that he's guilty. The pictures would just be used as a way to further crucify him, "Oh, those don't look too bad!" or people with their expert knowledge of such matters claiming he inflicted the injuries himself. He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing any more information than he has to.
 
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