17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[Etilema]

Irregardless of the merits of criminal profiling, one way or the other, George Zimmerman is not qualified to make rhe determination of profile assesment. He has no training. He has demonstrated no proficiency.

His lack of qualification to evaluate a threat was demonstrated throughout the duration of the 911 call. His statements of "he's up to no good" and "he's just looking around at the houses" prove, not only, the inability to make a correct assesment of a situation, but additionally shows a propensity to lie in order to bolster his prejudicial, ego fueled, assertions. The calculation of time and distance established in the 911 call clearly shows a direct, purposeful path of movement on the part of Trayvon Martin. There was NO wandering "around looking at houses" as described by Zimmerman to bolster his representations of nefarious intent on TM's part.

I see nothing to make me see anything beyond a man with an ego and a gun who killed an innocent child.

He should pay for that crime.

I agree with you. Whether we are right or not should be the subject of investigation by justice system. The outrage is that it would *appear* there was not going to be an investigation. Do we know for sure that there was no plan to continue looking into the circumstances of TM's death? Is it a fact that police considered this event to be over with (other than identifying the body)?

If I found out that even though they allowed GZ to return home that night, they were continuing to investigate whether a crime had been committed by him, it would make a huge difference in my degree of outrage. Because one guy can always do something stupid, but when it's an institutionalized, protected attitude, I have a big problem with that.

All JMO.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

This is what I don't understand about the SYG law and perhaps someone can it explain it to me.

GZ starts walking after TM and then approaches and asks TM 'what are you doing here'. Words are exchanged and TM attacks GZ. Is the SYG law void because GZ actually got out and approached TM with a question?

I'm not saying this is how it went down, but if it did go down like that, how does the SYG law apply?

I too have been trying to wrap my mind around that concept and it just doesn't make sense that someone can start this through confrontation, follow someone they were told not to, go to blows fist to fist (although the funeral director found no injuries on Trayvon to suggest he was in a fist fight) and someone pull out a gun and utter, I was in fear of my life....and walk away with no charges...

And I don't believe what's been told about <Mod Snip> Georges actions would apply with this SYG law...

 

[TonyGatto]

I can't wait til they arrest GZ.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Irregardless of the merits of criminal profiling, one way or the other, George Zimmerman is not qualified to make rhe determination of profile assesment. He has no training. He has demonstrated no proficiency.

His lack of qualification to evaluate a threat was demonstrated throughout the duration of the 911 call. His statements of "he's up to no good" and "he's just looking around at the houses" prove, not only, the inability to make a correct assesment of a situation, but additionally shows a propensity to lie in order to bolster his prejudicial, ego fueled, assertions. The calculation of time and distance established in the 911 call clearly shows a direct, purposeful path of movement on the part of Trayvon Martin. There was NO wandering around "looking at houses" as described by Zimmerman to bolster his representations of nefarious intent on TM's part.

I see nothing to make me see anything beyond a man with an ego and a gun who killed an innocent child.

He should pay for that crime.

He is not LE, so he does not need training or qualification to call 9-11. He only mentioned his race after he was asked about it by the dispatcher. Racial profiling is done by people in official positions of power such as LE. Saying that a private citizen is profiling is not really an accurate use of the term.

 

[stmarysmead]

BBM

I believe we know there was a confrontation -- and it ended with your boy shooting Trayvon to death.

"My boy?"

There may wel be reason to charge GZ. But the exaggerations, distortions, hysteria and outright lies require a few of us to try to give balance. No one is supposed to object to an elected politcian saying Whites are hunting Blacks like dogs?

No one should point out TM's REAL picture? It's relevant because, if, for whatever reason, Opie of Mayberry RFD has decided to style himself in a way, and talk in a way, and use the profanity , and degradation of women common to ...Skinheads...well, that's just the truth. We cannot just give out a picture of Opie and say that's WHO HE IS NOW. Because that's false. THE TRUTH matters in justice. Dying tragically does not alter the TRUTH.

TM's Twitter account does not show a young man who wants to talk about aviation, about football. He is not choosing a picture of himself in a football uniform. Maybe he was just "posing." But since YOU all are dealing in guesses...all to the detriment of GZ...you force others to guess...just to be fair. Maybe he wanted his girlfriend to think he was "tough"...maybe he was angry...maybe he decided to jump this weird guy?

There should be no "my guy" or "your guy." There should just be an investigation into the truth. That means considering warts on all side. Because TM is dead does not mean he could not have started the fight...been WINNING...and then lost to a bullet. That's a tragedy. Not Whites hunting Blacks like dogs in the street. Not "war on Black men." Or any of the other hysteria.

 

[TonyGatto]

Why is the media saying SA Wolfinger denied having that meeting with the police chief when he never denied having the meeting? Media inaccuracies work both ways.

 

[LambChop]

I guess LE in Sanford will now have to start telling people...."we don't need you to do this because by doing so you are putting our lives and the lives of other innocent people in danger. And by-the-way, are you carrying a weapon, because now we can tell you to stay right where you are and wait for the patrol car." It sounds like you have to read a person their rights for them to understand.

You will get never get an officer of the law to ever agree you should follow a suspect and more so if you are carrying a weapon. jmo

 

[Etilema]

There's no evidence of his father using his influence in any way, effectively or ineffectively to help GZ. How exactly would the conversation go? How does a magistrate intimidate police into covering up a supposed murder?

Interestingly, I think just as there is a certain reaction to a black teen in a hoodie, there is also a certain reaction to people perceived to be in positions of power or privilege. People in such positions are aware of this.

JMO

 

[cityslick]

I can't wait til they arrest GZ.

They are only going to arrest him if they think they have enough evidence to make a case. They will not arrest him due to public pressure. I thought they would at first but I think it would of already happened if that was the reason.

 

[Etilema]

I guess LE in Sanford will now have to start telling people...."we don't need you to do this because by doing so you are putting our lives and the lives of other innocent people in danger. And by-the-way, are you carrying a weapon, because now we can tell you to stay right where you are and wait for the patrol car." It sounds like you have to read a person their rights for them to understand.

You will get never get an officer of the law to ever agree you should follow a suspect and more so if you are carrying a weapon. jmo

Plus, I think that the 911 operator interpreted GZ's "okay" as his agreeing not to follow, so he wouldn't think it necessary to emphasize the instruction.

JMO

 

[Sensei]

If TM jumped him...if he was beating him...THAT is also a contributing factor. To just condemn a man for following...until we know if there was a confrontation, is not justice for anyone.

I'm aware that people have chosen sides, without complete information...with the easy path of deciding anything that favors GZ is a "cover-up", "police ineptitude", a huge conspiracy, or just all about race. It has become predictable to read. Any news favoring GZ...is immediately discarded. The idea that TM is anything but perfect is IMPOSSIBLE. Anything from TM's Twitter account...his own words, his attitudes, the name HE CHOSE for himself, the picture he CHOSE for himself is disrespectful. Well, you cannot disrespect anyone with their own words...their own opinions about women...teir own choices in what they want Friends to call them...and the picture THEY THINK best represents WHO THEY ARE. That's the person GZ came face to face with that night. Not the media's portrayal. TM's OWN portrayal...in his own words!

IF big ol whopping IF Trayvon jumped him, but how do you get around the fact that it is simply not logical or even reasonable to presume such a thing?

Trayvon did not know Zimmerman, and had no feelings of animus towards him at all, he did not deliberately seek out Mr. Zimmerman, he was being followed by Zimmerman, which would be enough to cause him some anxiety as to why someone was following him, but he was doing nothing wrong, he was not in fear that something illegal would be found on him, or that there was anything untoward going on except that someone who appeared to be a little weird was following him.

Not so George Zimmerman, he was invested in this chase, it is apparent because he ignored everything that he had been told in Neighborhood watch meetings and everything he had to read and sign when he got his permit to carry and anything he was told in the classes that he took. It is obvious that he KNEW that Trayvon was a criminal, and also obvious by his own words that he was not going to let this one "get away"

Which person of the two had the incentive to escalate a confrontation?

Unless you are willing to say that it must have been Trayvon because he was a teenageboy, who did the things that teenage boys sometimes do before they figure out which persona is really them, or unless you have some deep seated conviction that because he was a teenager and black that he HAD to have a hair trigger temper and would obviously be the one to strike first, then there is no reason to believe that Trayvon would have initiated a confrontation which he had no interest in, and every reason to believe that George Zimmerman would because he was completely invested in it. It is also reasonable to note that even if Zimmerman did in fact start the confrontation, once he had killed Trayvon, he was the only one left standing to tell the tale, and it is entirely in his interest to claim that Trayvon started it by attacking him, since I am reasonably sure he really doesn't want to go to jail. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

12 Things To Remember About The Trayvon Martin Case
SPOTLIGHT
BY GEORGE E. CURRY
Published Friday, March 30, 2012 4:32 PM EDT

1) Trayvon Martin was a 17-year-old Miami student visiting Sanford, Fla., near Orlando, with his father when he was killed On Feb. 26. His father, who also lives in Miami, was visiting his girlfriend in Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated townhouse community.

2) Trayvon had made a short trip to a nearby 7-Eleven store to pick up a bag of Skittles and a can of Arizona Iced tea as was returning when he was stalked by Zimmerman.

3) George Zimmerman, whose father is White and mother is of Peruvian descent, fatally shot unarmed Trayvon in chest.

4) Zimmerman was an unregistered neighborhood watch captain who was not supposed to carry a weapon while on patrol. Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs&#8217; Association, told the Orlando Sentinel that Zimmerman had broken a couple of cardinal rules. &#8220;If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job,&#8221; Tutko said. &#8220;This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he&#8217;s overzealous.&#8221; Tutko also said volunteers should never carry lethal weapons. He said &#8220;There&#8217;s no reason to carry a gun.&#8221;

5) Though Zimmerman acknowledged killing Trayvon, he was questioned and then released. Police did not follow basic guidelines of homicide investigations such as testing him for drugs and alcohol, though they performed the tests on Trayvon.

6) Trayvon was talking on his cell phone to his girlfriend shortly before his death and reported being followed by a strange man in a vehicle.

7) A police dispatcher specifically told Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon, instructions he ignored. When Zimmerman confirmed he was following Trayvon, the dispatcher said, &#8220;OK, we don&#8217;t need you to do that.&#8221; Zimmerman continued anyway.




more
http://atlantadailyworld.com/articles/2012/03/30/mobile/viewpoints/doc4f7617558bc6d363850221.txt

10) Police say Zimmerman was not arrested because of Florida&#8217;s Stand Your Ground law, a measure that gives broad protection to any citizen acting in self-defense. However, Jeb Bush, who as governor of Florida signed the Stand Your Ground bill into law, said the legislation does not cover the neighborhood watch captain who shot Trayvon Martin to death. &#8220;This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,&#8221; Bush said after an education panel discussion at the University of Texas at Arlington. &#8220;Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn&#8217;t mean chase after somebody who&#8217;s turned their back.&#8221;

 

[francie]

Wow. But could have been on the phone. And it doesn't say who the SA was -- but wondering if it was Wolfie.

True. But I think former Judge Zimmerman went in person because his son had just KILLED a black unarmed teenager & needed to throw his weight around to get George out of there pronto, imo. I think Wolfinger was probably there because of the major decision to let a judge’s killer-son go free but that's jmo.

 

[TonyGatto]

He is not LE, so he does not need training or qualification to call 9-11. He only mentioned his race after he was asked about it by the dispatcher. Racial profiling is done by people in official positions of power such as LE. Saying that a private citizen is profiling is not really an accurate use of the term.

What do you think he meant when he said "we don't need you to do that?"

 

[TonyGatto]

True. But I think former Judge Zimmerman went in person because his son had just KILLED a black unarmed teenager & needed to throw his weight around to get George out of there pronto, imo. I think Wolfinger was probably there because of the major decision to let a judge’s killer-son go free but that's jmo.

Interesting how the media reported that Wolfinger denied being there when he never actually denied being there.

 

[grammieto5]

Or transfer - remember GZ was described by at least one witness as standing or kneeling over Trayvon's body with his hands on Trayvon's back. Then GZ stood and put his hands on his head.

No links and JMO.

Now I'm confused, I thought Trayvon was shot in the front???? Why/how could Trayvon be on his stomach if he was shot in the front???

 

[Elley Mae]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...von-martin-case-begins-parallel-investigation

The call sheets show that five of seven phone calls Zimmerman had made since last August involved what he viewed as suspicious activity by young men identified as "black males."

But the call sheets do not indicate whether Zimmerman was asked about the race of the suspects or volunteered that information.


I do know from my experience that dispatch did ask me if I could tell if the suspect was white, black or hispanic early on in the call, and that is when I said I couldn't tell.

 

[suzihawk]

Any Lawyer worth his salt would cram a Law Book in Zimmerman's mouth to keep him from talking to the media at this point.

Of course they would.

It's interesting to me that Zimmerman still hasn't met face to face with either of his lawyers to date. I wonder why?

 

[TonyGatto]

Of course they would.

It's interesting to me that Zimmerman still hasn't met face to face with either of his lawyers to date. I wonder why?

I'm wondering if he left the country. Seriously. He has every right to.

 

[Etilema]

Of course they would.

It's interesting to me that Zimmerman still hasn't met face to face with either of his lawyers to date. I wonder why?

How do we know this?