17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[highflyer]

I'm not totally convinced it was TM screaming.

Do you think that it was GZ then, or someone else entirely?

 

[ThoughtFox]

BEM: According to his girlfriend, he said he wasn't going to run.

If you believe he was afraid, which he may well have been, why would he not call 911, why wouldn't his girlfriend? Interested in your take.

They are both kids and this was a strange situation. My own kids are really smart but I can only imagine the adrenaline that was flowing when TM realized a strange guy was following him for no apparent reason.

Also, not everyone has 911 on speed-dial like George. :twocents: I don't judge Trayvon and his girlfriend based on Zimmerman's over-the-top behavior.

 

[HiHater]

I've been wondering where Zimmerman's wife was at...like did she hear the commotion and come out? That could be how George's family was able to come to the scene/police department...:moo::twocents:

 

[Sensei]

How would she know exactly where he was to call 911?

I will have to try and find that link, when the story of the GF first came out, I read an article that claimed that she did call, but she got the Sheriffs Office in Seminole County instead of SPD, and no one knew what she was talking about. Later after they found out what happened, and she was hospitalized, her parents called SPD to tell them that she was on the phone with TM, at the time of the incident, and no one called them back.

I don't have that link immediatly at hand so IMO JMHO and stuff, and I will go searching.

 

[TonyGatto]

The experts stated that it was not GZ screaming and since there was only one other person there we can deduce that it was TM. But, why did to independent eyewitnesses say that GZ was screaming for help?

That's why I'm not totally convinced. A lot of people have said that since the screaming stopped once the shot went off that it must be TM screaming. But if it was GZ screaming, once the shot was fired he would also stop screaming because all physical force would have ceased. I'm also trying to get into the screaming and what was happening to make the person produce those sounds. It's not TM screaming because GZ simply has him at gunpoint.There is clearly physical force being applied that is causing the person to scream. When does the gun come out? When does TM realize GZ has a gun, if eve?. And then there's the possibility of more than one voice calling for help and/or screaming.

 

[vlpate]

When I listen to the tape it's as if Zimmerman is a narrator setting the scene.

To believe George orchestrated this, one would have to believe Trayvon was in on the act...IMO


This was true, there had been an average of one per month since August. He was letting him know why he was on alert to people walking around, looking at houses - Trayvon wasn't walking briskly in the rain to get home for the All Star game, or he'd have kept walking.

...break-ins in neighborhood

This line goes with, 'he just walking around, looking about, looking at houses'. Why would Trayvon be doing that in the rain, in the dark?

...looks like he's up to no good

This tells me Trayvon may have been walking slowly, staggering maybe? JMO

...or he's on drugs or something

Dispatcher asked him, "white, black or hispanic", to which Zimmerman replied....

...he looks black

Staring at him, George...coming toward him - he's running.

...he was just staring

Here he was acknowledging Trayvon was a black male because he wasn't sure at first. Hoodie, rain, dark - understandable...IMO

...he's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

 

[Steft50]

Just an interesting note about this.
My daughter is majoring in Criminal Justice and this has been a huge topic of discussion in all her classes not just the CJ ones. She says everyone has the same view on this and that is the second Zimmerman followed Trayvon, got out of his car to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman became the aggressor, stalker of a teenaged kid and that he should be charged and tried for manslaughter at the very least. She says the biggest (and really only) area of disagreement is whether Zimmerman "accidently" shot Trayvon or if it was a delibrate human hunt with the intention of killing him.

 

[TonyGatto]

Do you think that it was GZ then, or someone else entirely?

Well if it's not GZ, then it's TM, there are no other possibilities. I just don't know. Perhaps they're both on the tape, but one is clearly uttering blood curdling screams just before shot.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Wonder if Zimmerman carries his phone on his belt? Is that why he said he was reaching for his phone. Was his jacket unzipped when the cops got there?

If it was raining and the cop unzipped Zimmerman's coat to get his gun wouldn't he have zipped it back up for him?

 

[LambChop]

BEM: According to his girlfriend, he said he wasn't going to run.

If you believe he was afraid, which he may well have been, why would he not call 911, why wouldn't his girlfriend? Interested in your take.

You know that is a good question and I really had to think about it. If he were afraid you would think TM would call.....so was he planning on hiding and jumping out (from those open spaces almost nowhere to hide area) thinking he could catch GZ off guard and attack him. To what end??? He was visiting right there and it's not as if LE would not have found him. Maybe TM did not call because he never dreamed this man would physically come after him. We know he did because TM was on the phone asking a question to which GZ answered by asked TM a question. And then there was a scuffle. If he planned on attacking GZ why would he have stayed on the phone talking. He would have hung up to give himself a better advantage to "jump" on this guy. I don't think TM ever saw it coming, or did he ever dream someone like GZ would come after him as he did. It could have happened that way, I can see how and why he did not call 911 because he never got the chance and was taken by surprise. jmo

 

[katydid23]

It is MY OPINION (based on GZ's words and the almost sing-song crazy tone he was using) that GZ intended to gun this kid down on the spot, and while on the phone with LE. Further, I believe it is possible that Trayvon saw something of this menace in GZ's body language or expression and that this is what caused him to run.

THIS is what GZ was talking about when he said that they always get away.

IN MY OPINION ONLY!

So you think that while he was talking to the dispatcher he was actually planning to kill this kid in cold blood? That is what 'they always get away' means to you?
Because I would think 'they always get away means that they have not been able to catch all of the burglars that had been hitting the complex.

I think it might be a bit of a stretch to say it means he was intending to kill this kid in cold blood all along.

Have any of the other people he called LE about ever been shot at by him?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That's why I'm not totally convinced. A lot of people have said that since the screaming stopped once the shot went off that it must be TM screaming. But if it was GZ screaming, once the shot was fired he would also stop screaming because all physical force would have ceased. I'm also trying to get into the screaming and what was happening to make the person produce those sounds. It's not TM screaming because GZ simply has him at gunpoint.There is clearly physical force being applied that is causing the person to scream. When does the gun come out? When does TM realize GZ has a gun, if eve?. And then there's the possibility of more than one voice calling for help and/or screaming.

I keep thinking Zimmerman had Martin in a headlock or had him by the hoodie, he only had one hand to control him because I think he had the gun out.

 

[mercuriod]

I haven't heard anything about the Prosecutor calling the Grand Jury - it would be unusual for her. Please, where is this information coming from?

When someone is called to testify, it does not mean they have been telling the truth, just saying.

Did I say that???

Well since the entire conversation about the Grand Jury came about because of the article stating Trayvon's 15 year old girl friend had been subpoenaed to testify before the Grand Jury who else are you "just saying" would not be telling the truth (ie. lying)?

 

[m00c0w]

As far as it goes it is factually correct,it only says that children are more suseptible, not that it does not happen to adults only that children have a higher incidence, due to a variety of factors. In the immediate case that we are currently discussing. We have trained EMT's, who see a better view of the state of GZ's head whether contusions or gashes, and they have further evidence of a story that he has had his head hit against either concrete or the ground, and they did not take him anywhere....they didn't transport at all, there are no bandages, and no steri strips to be seen, IOW they took the chance that there was damage, and let him go with LE, knowing that there was a possibility that he was suffering from concussion, or had a bleeding, or swelling injury inside his skull....

This makes NO SENSE to me, in fact it is simply not plausible IMO JMHO and stuff.

BBM

Children are much more susceptible to traumatic brain injuries that result in disability or death. While I am terribly sorry that happened to your daughter, respectfully, I don't feel that's quite the same.

What exactly are you contesting, then? I never claimed it doesn't happen to adults. It's just more likely to happen to children, which the facts support.

 

[LambChop]

Wonder if Zimmerman carries his phone on his belt? Is that why he said he was reaching for his phone. Was his jacket unzipped when the cops got there?

If it was raining and the cop unzipped Zimmerman's coat to get his gun wouldn't he have zipped it back up for him?

Funny how we see LE going through his pockets of his jacket (did they removed something, not sure) and there is no phone. LE reported they collected his gun and holster but nothing about his phone. jmo

 

[vlpate]

They are both kids and this was a strange situation. My own kids are really smart but I can only imagine the adrenaline that was flowing when TM realized a strange guy was following him for no apparent reason.

Also, not everyone has 911 on speed-dial like George. :twocents: I don't judge Trayvon and his girlfriend based on Zimmerman's over-the-top behavior.

My daughter knew how to dial 911 in the first grade - I don't find this an excuse - they are not children, they are teenagers.

 

[TonyGatto]

You know that is a good question and I really had to think about it. If he were afraid you would think TM would call.....so was he planning on hiding and jumping out (from those open spaces almost nowhere to hide area) thinking he could catch GZ off guard and attack him. To what end??? He was visiting right there and it's not as if LE would not have found him. Maybe TM did not call because he never dreamed this man would physically come after him. We know he did because TM was on the phone asking a question to which GZ answered by asked TM a question. And then there was a scuffle. If he planned on attacking GZ why would he have stayed on the phone talking. He would have hung up to give himself a better advantage to "jump" on this guy. I don't think TM ever saw it coming, or did he ever dream someone like GZ would come after him as he did. It could have happened that way, I can see how and why he did not call 911 because he never got the chance and was taken by surprise. jmo

17 year old boys do not have the mindset of calling 911. Especially if they are people of color. There is a culture thing going on here that people just don't get.

 

[Sensei]

So you think that while he was talking to the dispatcher he was actually planning to kill this kid in cold blood? That is what 'they always get away' means to you?
Because I would think 'they always get away means that they have not been able to catch all of the burglars that had been hitting the complex.

I think it might be a bit of a stretch to say it means he was intending to kill this kid in cold blood all along.

Have any of the other people he called LE about ever been shot at by him?

I don't think he was planning to kill him, but I do think he was planning to stop him and hold him until LE arrived. I believe that he attempted to do just that, whether he caught his arm or his clothes or showed his gun, I don't think TM was truly afraid until them, he may have been apprehensive but I don't think he was afraid until GZ tried to stop him and the scuffle broke out. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[lauriej]

I'm pretty sure they will call GZ, all the LE involved and whatever witnesses they want the GJ to hear.

--the purpose of the GJ is to determine if they will indict zimmerman. he won't be called to testify.

 

[LambChop]

To believe George orchestrated this, one would have to believe Trayvon was in on the act...IMO


This was true, there had been an average of one per month since August. He was letting him know why he was on alert to people walking around, looking at houses - Trayvon wasn't walking briskly in the rain to get home for the All Star game, or he'd have kept walking.


This line goes with, 'he just walking around, looking about, looking at houses'. Why would Trayvon be doing that in the rain, in the dark?


This tells me Trayvon may have been walking slowly, staggering maybe? JMO


Dispatcher asked him, "white, black or hispanic", to which Zimmerman replied....


Staring at him, George...coming toward him - he's running.


Here he was acknowledging Trayvon was a black male because he wasn't sure at first. Hoodie, rain, dark - understandable...IMO

This is coming from George only. Do you suppose LE would have show up if he described TM as a young black male with a hoodie walking in the rain?