17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[Horace Finklestein]

So you find nothing wrong with grown men following and stalking youth that they do not know?

jmo, imo and all that jazz

I don't define it as "stalking". And no, under the circumstances, it made sense. GZ thought TM was up to no good. If someone suspects something untoward is going on, what is wrong with following them to ask them what's up?

In fact, TM spoke to GZ first and asked why he was following him. Evidently GZ didn't have the chance to say "Hello young man, my name is George Zimmerman, may I ask the purpose of your evening constitutional?" or whatever people think GZ should have asked in order to be polite.

 

[rossva]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I REC'D TODAY (3/27/2012)

THE ABC Chicago Reporter DID make a MISTAKE. As far as they know, Martin DID NOT CALL 911

I can forward the email to a MOD if needed for verification.

RE: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting
WLS - TV News ([email protected]

To: REDACTED

Reporter Paul Meincke misspoke at t/he end of his Friday live report. He was doing a story about marchers in Chicago. At the end of his story while explaining that the FBI hopes /to enhance audio from 911 recordings he misspoke when he said Trayvon Martin made a 911 call. Zimmerman and a number of witnesses made calls to 911. There are reports that Martin was on the phone with a friend at the time, but we do not have any information that Martin made a 911 call. We regret the error.

Thank you for watching and for taking the time to email us.



----Original Message-----
From: REDACTED
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:38 PM
To: WLS-TV News
Subject: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting

From: REDACTED
name: REDACTED
City: REDACTED
State: Florida
Zip: REDACTED
Phone: 321 REDACTED

Comments: Hello. In a report about the Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting in Sanford Fl, your reporter said that Trayvon Martin had made a call to 911. This has not been reported anywhere else; did Paul Meincke mean to say George Zimmerman had made the call to 911? Thanks
__________________

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7727582#post7727582"]17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7 - Page 22 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

HUH?



Has anyone heard or read anything about THIS?

 

[suzihawk]

Yep, as usual Taaffe isn't helping Zimmerman's case at all....

Taffe says, “We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot. It would have been nine - there would have been nine, but George Zimmerman through his efforts of being a neighborhood watch captain helped stop one in progress, documented in the 911 calls February 2. My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house. And it's documented the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop.”

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...g-black-males-if-you-plant-corn-you-get-corn/

Again, according to Wendy Dorival, SFP liaison between Neighborhood watch groups and LE specifically instructed Zimmerman's group that they were not to even make rounds so why was Zimmerman out doing "his rounds." It seems to me that Zimmerman had a problem listening and following very simple instructions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T3xtVKs1_TC

In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”


~jmo~

I believe his statistics have been proven to be incorrect. As well as whether his own home was broken into or not.

MOO since I'm unable to chase down links at the moment.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

There is just as much evidence that he DID, you do not have to verbally or physically attack someone to threaten them and make them afraid, and by following TM with his truck, and then pursuing him on foot when TM ran in an obvious attempt to get away from him he did in fact do something wrong. When you follow someone around and intimidate them and make them afraid, even in the face of them attempting to get away from you it's called stalking and it's illegal.

IMO JMHO and stuff

How does GZ have the power to intimidate TM and "make" him be afraid? He can't control TM's reaction. Was TM afraid and intimidated when he was pummeling GZ?

 

[marlame]

GZ didn't do anything illegal either. Gun was legal. He wasn't trespassing. Both statements are red herrings because both people had a right to do what they did UNTIL the physical fight started...that is where we need answers imo. If GZ was attacked by TM and acted in self defense, he did NOTHING wrong.

Possibly one of our verified Lawyer's could weigh in here?
Is self-defense applicable when you are stalking someone? Is this in accordance with any applicable law?

:truce:

 

[Sensei]

I don't define it as "stalking". And no, under the circumstances, it made sense. GZ thought TM was up to no good. If someone suspects something untoward is going on, what is wrong with following them to ask them what's up?

In fact, TM spoke to GZ first and asked why he was following him. Evidently GZ didn't have the chance to say "Hello young man, my name is George Zimmerman, may I ask the purpose of your evening constitutional?" or whatever people think GZ should have asked in order to be polite.

And after the way that GZ spoke about TM on the 911 call, and then having to chase him, do you really think that GZ was going to approach TM politely and ask him questions in a mild manner?

There is NOTHING implicitly or even kind of threatening about someone asking "Why are you following me," when they are being followed by someone unknown to them. I also do not doubt that Zimmerman asked "what are you doing around here" and I doubt if it was in his most polite mild cocktail party voice either. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Possibly one of our verified Lawyer's could weigh in here?
Is self-defense applicable when you are stalking someone? Is this in accordance with any applicable law?

:truce:

Mr. Hornsby did weigh in and he said he believed SYG applied IF in fact TM was on top of GZ pummeling him. He said that based on the info police released, it was justifiable. NOTE: I do not know if he has changed his view since then, that's just the latest I have heard.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Thanks rossva for getting to the bottom of that, I have no clue how I missed this before. Bout fell out of my chair at the office when I read it.

Sorry to all for the confusion.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Trayvon-Martins-Parents-to-Lead-March-in-Miami-146111815.html

"All police reports from all law enforcement agencies require a 'Uniform Crime Code' to qualify an incident and for statistical purposes for tracking types of incidents," the statement said. "This code does not indicate a formal charge that will be lodged against an alleged offender. It is used for internal processing and to type cases."

 

[i.b.nora]

I thought it was 14 hours, LC. However, I totally agree with the rest of your post. < mod snip >

MOO :banghead:

You are mostly correct, a once a week for 14 weeks course.

"We meet each Wednesday evening for 14 weeks from 6:30 to 10:00 p.m."

So, 3.5 hours a week for 14 weeks.

Community Law Enforcement Academy: http://www.seminolesheriff.org/external/InfoSitepage.aspx?pageID=166

 

[Gin]

I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:

They don't have anything to sue for, yet.

GZ didn't do anything illegal either. Gun was legal. He wasn't trespassing. Both statements are red herrings because both people had a right to do what they did UNTIL the physical fight started...that is where we need answers imo. If GZ was attacked by TM and acted in self defense, he did NOTHING wrong.

Illegal? Leaving Criminal aside, here's my take on just Civil--Z was out and about armed, knowingly and deliberately violating neighborhood watch guidelines which were spelled out in the meeting he himself arranged.
A death has occurred due to his actions that night. The condo-owners and Board are at grave risk, financially thanks to Z's actions. They unfortunately endorsed him as their point guy for "watch". IMO, there is 0% change they have insurance that will protect them from knowing, deliberate, willfully negligent acts.
Of course, Z is also at risk personally for his, deliberate, willfully negligent acts in this situation. When Z walked out the door, started following/stalking Trayvon, and then shot him with his 9mm Z wasn't a watch person. IMO he was a vigilante. To have the "cover" of neighborhood watch, he would have had to follow their simple, easy to understand neighborhood watch guidelines.

 

[vlpate]

I don't have the link right now but his mother said it was a pin in honor of a mentor of his that died recently....very scary, right?

This was in an interview, I don't remember which one, but IIRC SB said the pin was for a relative that had died - the interviewer didn't push her to elaborate. I have wondered about this but haven't been able to find anything about it.

 

[JeannaT]

The mere act of following someone that does not know you, and continuing to follow them when they give every evidence of wanting to get away from you is in fact enough to be considered intimidating, and could and possibly would make any number of people fearful, it's against the law and you are not allowed to do it. If you doubt me, go find someone that you do not know who is walking alone at night, and follow them in your vehicle for a while, then get out and follow them on foot....You may find that you will break out in handcuffs... IMO JMHO and stuff.

It's not illegal to follow someone. You ARE allowed to follow people if you suspect them of having criminal intent.

Or even, if you are curious about where they're going.

 

[marlame]

How does GZ have the power to intimidate TM and "make" him be afraid? He can't control TM's reaction. Was TM afraid and intimidated when he was pummeling GZ?

YES!!! GZ DID have the power to intimidate TM and "make" Trayvon be afraid. FYI...Intimidation is a very powerful psychological tool!

Was TM afraid and intimidated when he was pummeling GZ? If in fact Trayvon "pummeled" GZ my opinion is YES he was being followed/stalked and felt threatened and reacted out of fear. Fight or flight kicked in...

 

[Donjeta]

It's not illegal to follow someone. You ARE allowed to follow people if you suspect them of having criminal intent.

Or even, if you are curious about where they're going.

Very well but then it's very likely that YOU will be suspected of having criminal intent.

 

[csziggy]

HLN has confirmed that Sanford Police records show that Zimmerman did call police on February 2.

Zimmerman's complaint on the city's website from February 2 says, "Black male (leather jacket, black hat, printed PJ pants) keeps going to the residence which is owned by a white male. Black male subject in question was gone upon police arrival." The complaint also lists an address that matches Taaffee's residence.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04/03/zimmermans-neighbor-perfect-storm-caused-shooting

Has it been confirmed that there really was a robbery in progress there?
Any signs of forced entry? Anything stolen?

Someone could be playing the hero stopping non-existent burglaries in progress.

There is a burglary on 2/2/2012 listed in GZ's list of previous 911 calls:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf
But the address for it does not match Taaffe's, though that could be a typo, since it's a 9 instead of a 4 as the difference.

Oddly, that one is NOT included in the file of burglaries in The Retreat at Twin Lakes Sanford has put on their site: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf

 

[cityslick]

The mere act of following someone that does not know you, and continuing to follow them when they give every evidence of wanting to get away from you is in fact enough to be considered intimidating, and could and possibly would make any number of people fearful, it's against the law and you are not allowed to do it. If you doubt me, go find someone that you do not know who is walking alone at night, and follow them in your vehicle for a while, then get out and follow them on foot....You may find that you will break out in handcuffs... IMO JMHO and stuff.

Does the law allow someone to physically assault someone if they believe they are being stalked by someone?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

The mere act of following someone that does not know you, and continuing to follow them when they give every evidence of wanting to get away from you is in fact enough to be considered intimidating, and could and possibly would make any number of people fearful, it's against the law and you are not allowed to do it. If you doubt me, go find someone that you do not know who is walking alone at night, and follow them in your vehicle for a while, then get out and follow them on foot....You may find that you will break out in handcuffs... IMO JMHO and stuff.

Of course you are allowed to follow people! There is nothing unlawful about following a person. Furthermore, if TM wanted to get away from GZ he easily could have imo. This is from Richard Hornsby's blog, which I think is ok to link to: http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

"As I explained previously, Florida Statute 776.041, states that a person cannot raise self defense if they provoked the fight.

And that begs the question, what would be considered provoking the fight? Most people (including myself) focus on the facts that George Zimmerman:

1.Disobeyed the 911 Dispatcher, left his car, and followed Trayvon Martin; and
2.Brought his firearm with him, although lawfully concealed.

But neither of these acts are unlawful, nor would they be considered legally provocative acts."

 

[Sensei]

It's not illegal to follow someone. You ARE allowed to follow people if you suspect them of having criminal intent.

Or even, if you are curious about where they're going.

2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows or harasses another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

http://www.esia.net/State_Stalking_Laws.htm

The Florida law say that you are wrong.

 

[JeannaT]

Very well but then it's very likely that YOU will be suspected of having criminal intent.

That may well be true. But it still is legal, even if there might be an appearance of being suspicious.