17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[JeannaT]

Exactly. And if someone can explain this to me, I'd appreciate it. GZ was taken to the Police Station in handcuffs. The responding police must have found it worthy to cuff him and take him in. What changed a few hours later, and suddenly he was free to go, no booking, no nothing?

The SA met with the investigators and determined there wasn't enough evidence to prove a case in court. As I recall this occurred about 3 a.m.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Trayvon Martin Resolution Introduced By Congressional Black Caucus
Posted: 04/ 4/2012 8:49 pm
Updated: 04/ 5/2012 9:03 am

WASHINGTON -- The Congressional Black Caucus unveiled a resolution on Wednesday that honors the life of Trayvon Martin and calls for the repeal of "Stand Your Ground" gun laws in every state that has one, including Florida, where Martin was killed.

"Florida's misguided 'Stand Your Ground' law does not make our streets safer, rather it turns our streets into a showdown at the OK Corral," Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-Fla.), a sponsor of the resolution, said in a statement. "But this is not the Wild West. We are supposed to be a civilized society. Let Trayvon's death not be for naught. Let us honor his life by righting this wrong, and seeing that justice is served for Trayvon and his family. George Zimmerman must be prosecuted for his admitted shooting of Trayvon Martin and the 'Stand Your Ground' law must be repealed."



more
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ion-congressional-black-caucus_n_1404441.html

 

[JeannaT]

I want to be sure I understand something about GZ's storyline correctly. While we certainly don't have all the facts at this point, there are a few that have been established.

-From the 911 call log we know that GZ called the non emergency line at [7:09:34 pm]

-From the same 911 call we know that GZ told the operator that TM started running at 2:07 minutes into the call or [7:11:41 pm]

-We know that at some point afterwards, GZ is claiming that TM decked him with a punch that broke his nose and got on top of him and began bashing his head against the sidewalk causing GZ to fear for his life and therefore be justified in pulling out his gun and firing one shot into TM's chest and killing him. We know that shot was fired at [7:16:41 pm] because we've all heard the shot at the :41 mark of a neighbor's 911 call which began at 7:16 pm.

-We're now also getting the details of TM's girlfriend's final call to TM at 7:12 pm for a call that lasted until some point between 7:16 pm and 7:17 pm when the call was disconnected.

Here's what I want to know if I'm understanding properly. Is George Zimmerman actually saying that a 17 year old kid with a slender build, attacked a 28 year old ex bouncer and beat him so brutally that the was afraid he was going to die.....WHILE HE WAS TALKING ON THE PHONE WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND?

Have I got that right?

No. As far as I know, you've got everything right up til the last statement. I think time clocks are not accurate here. What the GF has clearly said is that the moment a physical altercation began, the phone went dead. So no, he wasn't on the phone during the scuffle. He was on the phone up until the moment the scuffle began. She heard the verbal exchange, initiated by Trayvon, and then didn't hear anything after what appeared to sound like a shove.

 

[Velouria]

No, it doesn't. Because shooting someone in self-defense isn't a crime. And the evidence we have (two eye witness accounts, GZ's account that matches the evidence on his jacket and head), and a girlfriend who acknowledged Trayvon began the altercation verbally, and other witnesses who say they heard the sounds of a fight for several minutes before the shot was fired all point to the theory that GZ is telling the truth - he shot Trayvon legally because he was in fear of great bodily harm. Which he had already sustained, IMHO.

But the law doesn't require that you have to sustain great bodily harm first, and then shoot.

And yet, the lead investigator thought there was evidence that this was NOT self-defense.

Do you have access to some exculpatory information that Officer Serino did not?

 

[Aedrys]

No, it doesn't. Because shooting someone in self-defense isn't a crime. And the evidence we have (two eye witness accounts, GZ's account that matches the evidence on his jacket and head), and a girlfriend who acknowledged Trayvon began the altercation verbally, and other witnesses who say they heard the sounds of a fight for several minutes before the shot was fired all point to the theory that GZ is telling the truth - he shot Trayvon legally because he was in fear of great bodily harm. Which he had already sustained, IMHO.

But the law doesn't require that you have to sustain great bodily harm first, and then shoot.

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

The only person afraid of great bodily harm was Trayvon, which is why he fought back to protect himself!

 

[JeannaT]

And yet, the lead investigator thought there was evidence that this was NOT self-defense.

Do you have access to some exculpatory information that Officer Serino did not?

Yes. The lead investigator believed this was a case where charges should be filed.

I think that happens a lot - LE goes to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor refuses to press charges because they can't win in court with the evidence so far.

It's common, and I don't think there's anything shady or underhanded about it. Cops believe a crime was committed, the prosecutor believes there's not enough evidence.

 

[Adrienne37]

The SA met with the investigators and determined there wasn't enough evidence to prove a case in court. As I recall this occurred about 3 a.m.

Would this be the meeting that the SA denies attending, the one that he became extremely belligerent over?



~jmo~

 

[tehcloser]

I thought he said he wasn't going to run?

That's what we have heard...but GZ said he did. So did GZ lie about him running to make his story better? Or did TM say that trying to sound brave and then take off running?

 

[Gin]

The SA met with the investigators and determined there wasn't enough evidence to prove a case in court. As I recall this occurred about 3 a.m.

I am curious as to how many individuals were involved in this highly unusual 3am decision. Will be interesting to see what the FBI and DOJ finds.

 

[JeannaT]

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

He could have been killed, actually. People die in fist fights all the time.

BTW, GZ didn't outweigh Trayvon by 100 pounds. Trayvon weighed approx. 160, and looking at the video in the police station, that man is NOT 260 pounds. I read a blog, on MSM, with the misconceptions in this case and that's a glaring one.

If I had to back one of these two in a fight, it would be Trayvon 100%

 

[cityslick]

That's not how our court system works. After an investigation is done, if there isn't the belief with the prosecutor that he can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed, there are no charges filed.

Our court system doesn't just throw up its hands at making a decision about whether a crime has occurred, and let the jury sort it out while the hapless suspect tries to prove his innocence.

Our court system works in the exact opposite way.

Actually, it does not take reasonable doubt to indict someone and when a person is indicted, the investigation does not end. As a matter of fact, I can't point to numerous cases where the interviewing of witnesses and the gathering of evidence continued right up until trial.

 

[LambChop]

I thought he said he wasn't going to run?

We don't know that he was actually running because it's GZ's accounting. And GZ was wrong about TM. TM wasn't headed for the back gate because he was staying there with family.

 

[nao]

my experiance with neighborhood watch, Christmas- sent my visiting bro to the store for groceries in my auto. Bro returned wild eyed, sister what have you been doing he asks.
When my bro returned to auto with groceries, some neighborhood watch fellow was waiting for him, and went on a rant -we have your license plate, we know where you live, we know what you've been doing. What had i been doing, driving around looking at Christmas lites with the little ones, as i have done for years. Whats worse is i'd lived in that community for 20+ years and these were new people but connected to a new store front? cop shop - its a rural area , no permanant police presence.
They are not cops, i do not think its ok for them to do that.
The law in TM-GZ basicaly says if theres a fight who ever wins is innocent, because each will be in fear of their life. I don't think its about race, social status maybe.
GZ i see basicly as a pawn in the police dept issues, That police dept has been in the news before, what has'nt made it to the news, i'd like their paper work gone thru.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

The only person afraid of great bodily harm was Trayvon, which is why he fought back to protect himself!

The BBM part is incorrect for sure.
I'll try to find the correct info. But no way was it twice or three times as much. No way.

I'm off to look.

 

[Elley Mae]

We don't know that he was actually running because it's GZ's accounting. And GZ was wrong about TM. TM wasn't headed for the back gate because he was staying there with family.

http://nation.foxnews.com/george-zimmerman/2012/04/05/zimmermans-father-speaks-out-hannity

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Which way is he running?

ZIMMERMAN: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: OK, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

ZIMMERMAN: The back entrance --

 

[cityslick]

I want to be sure I understand something about GZ's storyline correctly. While we certainly don't have all the facts at this point, there are a few that have been established.

-From the 911 call log we know that GZ called the non emergency line at [7:09:34 pm]

-From the same 911 call we know that GZ told the operator that TM started running at 2:07 minutes into the call or [7:11:41 pm]

-We know that at some point afterwards, GZ is claiming that TM decked him with a punch that broke his nose and got on top of him and began bashing his head against the sidewalk causing GZ to fear for his life and therefore be justified in pulling out his gun and firing one shot into TM's chest and killing him. We know that shot was fired at [7:16:41 pm] because we've all heard the shot at the :41 mark of a neighbor's 911 call which began at 7:16 pm.

-We're now also getting the details of TM's girlfriend's final call to TM at 7:12 pm for a call that lasted until some point between 7:16 pm and 7:17 pm when the call was disconnected.

Here's what I want to know if I'm understanding properly. Is George Zimmerman actually saying that a 17 year old kid with a slender build, attacked a 28 year old ex bouncer and beat him so brutally that the was afraid he was going to die.....WHILE HE WAS TALKING ON THE PHONE WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND?

Have I got that right?

No matter what GZ says or doesn't say, we know the call ends when the scrum starts because the GF says so (line goes dead after a push). So no, he would not be getting theoretically attacked from TM while on the phone, the GF testimony already says that didn't happen.

Also, being actually beat up brutally and perceiving that the kid was going to hurt him bad are two different things. If a person really fears someone (due to perceived stereotypes of a person, for example GZ thinks all young black males are gun toting gang bangers), then they perceive what that person could potentially do to them.

 

[Aedrys]

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

The only person afraid of great bodily harm was Trayvon, which is why he fought back to protect himself!

Quoting myself because something else just occurred to me. So GZ didn't shoot Trayvon until after Trayvon jumped him and started beating him. Why didn't he shoot him BEFORE he jumped him? Wouldn't he have been afraid of great bodily harm with Trayvon coming at him? Why wasn't he afraid until after Trayvon was beating him? I'm basing this on GZ's description of the events, btw.

It just seems odd that an armed man that weighs more than a non-violent teenage boy he was chasing was pushed down and beat on before shooting the boy. Something doesn't seem right with that. It seems to me GZ knew he wouldn't get away with it unless Trayvon beat on him a bit first. He couldn't claim self defense and stand your ground if he didn't have any wounds. Maybe this sounds all conspiracy theorist, but I think he antagonized Trayvon, let Trayvon beat him up a bit, and then shot him. The events just don't make sense to me otherwise.

 

[JeannaT]

The BBM part is incorrect for sure.
I'll try to find the correct info. But no way was it twice or three times as much. No way.

I'm off to look.

You're right. I think the info I read put them within about 30 pounds - and truthfully, GZ doesn't even look as heavy as 190 to me.

 

[cityslick]

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

The only person afraid of great bodily harm was Trayvon, which is why he fought back to protect himself!

That's not true, he only outweighed him by 10-20 pounds. He weighed more than TM, TM had I think 3-4 inches on him in height.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The BBM part is incorrect for sure.
I'll try to find the correct info. But no way was it twice or three times as much. No way.

I'm off to look.

Outweighed, yes. By 100 pounds, no. George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who says he killed Trayvon in self-defense, outweighed him by 30 or 40 pounds, according to family members. A Sanford police incident report says Trayvon was 6 feet tall and weighed 160 pounds. A spokesman for the family's lawyers gave a slightly different set of numbers: 6 feet 1 and 150 pounds. Zimmerman is 5 feet 9 inches tall, according to the police report, but it is silent about his weight. A family member says he currently weighs about 190 pounds. Zimmerman used to be far heavier. A 2005 police report put his weight at 250 pounds, but security-camera video released last week by Sanford police show him to be much trimmer.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...civil-rights-gated-community-robert-zimmerman