17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[HiHater]

Maybe his father and brother helped him???

Possibly. But you have the presence of mind to move, and remember the story was not even in the national media at that point.

 

[Adrienne37]

I think not carrying around a gun would be more impressive.

I would still love to know he had his gun holstered on his waistband when he went out on Sunday nights to do the grocery shopping. One of those things that mean absolutely nothing but just sort of curious.



~jmo

 

[legalmania]

May I ask how old u are and how much you weigh?
i ask because i think the metabolism of a 28 year old, 250 pound man would be very very different..

Well I'll give you this much I'm not 28 and I'm not 250 lbs. When I was 28 I was cold in Fl. never been 250 lbs so don't know. I know that when it was 50 out everyone I remember seeing was dressed for winter. From tiny babies to people who probably weighed more than 250.

 

[JBean]

When it is 55-60 here in CA we are f-r-e-e-z-i-n-g. I have to wears gloves and everything . Yet, when I am in Chicago visiting family and it is 60-it seems warm and lovely! Go figure.

I have a question/comment. In my mind I picture Trayvon talking on the phone with earbuds so that I imagine Zimmerman did not necessarily know that he was on the phone. So I see I guy walking around not with any real direction-a general direction- but not a specific one as he kind of dawdled while he walked and talked to his gf-not necessarily paying attention to what was around him until he notices Zimmerman following him.

Does anyone think that because he was on the phone but not holding the phone to his ear that Zimmerman mistook him for someone up to no good?

**disclaimer** that is my understanding of how he was on the phone. if that is inaccurate for the love of God please let me know so I don;t make a further <modsnip> of myself**

Didn't he say "there is something wrong with him"? or words to that affect?Perhaps he was gesturing with the phone call but since he was the only one that could hear the call his movements looked odd? I know when people are in the market with their Bluetooth on and I can't see their Bluetooth and they are yacking away to no one I always go through a minute of thinking they have a loose screw until I realize what is happening.The fact that he was a black youth, in my opinion, possibly confirmed Zimmerman's suspicions that he was some sort of criminal?

The real problem I have is that Zimmerman was armed and looking for criminals and sometimes we see what we want. Trayvon most likely fit Zimmerman's criminal profile,IMO, and by following him it became almost a self-fulfilling prophecy in that Trayvon questioned him and well the rest is history.

I would have more support for Zimmerman if he caught Trayvon in the act of doing something illegal-but pulling out a gun seems so disproportionate to Trayvon's possible reaction to being followed that I still think this rests squarely in Zimmermans lap. I cannot help but feel that he himself created the situation for Trayvon to be killed and if true, for himself to be harmed. I don't know that he had the intent to kill him-but do think he created a situation from nothing and I fault him for that. JMHO as always.

 

[katydid23]

I'd like to know how this went from running to Target to get milk (and where did that come from?) to he always does his grocery shopping on Sunday nights at that time.

What a huge discrepancy. How dare they try and change their story from going to Target to get milk to going to Target to get groceries. That must be the smoking gun.

 

[legalmania]

I would still love to know he had his gun holstered on his waistband when he went out on Sunday nights to do the grocery shopping. One of those things that mean absolutely nothing but just sort of curious.



~jmo

I heard on the NBC nightly news that Zimmerman was at a class for neighborhood watch and the officer who was teaching the class told everyone not to carry a gun.

 

[CHICANA]

May I ask how old u are and how much you weigh?
i ask because i think the metabolism of a 28 year old, 250 pound man would be very very different..

He doesn't weigh 250 anymore. That weight was listed when he was arrested several years ago.

 

[HiHater]

What a huge discrepancy. How dare they try and change their story from going to Target to get milk to going to Target to get groceries. That must be the smoking gun.

Obviously, the difference has to do with a routine.

Does he go to the grocery store every Sunday---if so, that backs up his claim that he was not on patrol.

Was he going for milk when he just so happened to see Trayvon? That makes it seem like getting milk is being used as a cover for patrolling.

..JMO MOO IMO

 

[vlpate]

Not really - didn't GZ follow in at least one instance?

From the file of GZ's call history (available from the City of Sanford website):

08/12/2004. GZ followed a truck for over five minutes. I'm not sure what he thought the driver had done.

10/20/2004 Followed some guy with a bag out of Blockbusters - again, he followed for about five minutes.

9/22/2009 Followed a speed bike doing wheelies, speeding and cutting in and out of traffic. Followed for a couple of minutes before he lost it.

11/03/2009 Followed a pickup cutting people off. Followed long enough to get license number, over a minute.

Seems GZ liked to follow "suspects".

IMO, JMO, etc.

What is wrong with any of these instances??? A speed bike doing wheelies, putting himself and others in danger - he shouldn't have called LE? Why?

A pickup cutting people off - was the guy drunk? I've called LE at least three or four times in my life on drunk drivers and obtained the license plates on the ones I could see.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I think they chose groceries because it is as far away as you can get from just a beer run.

 

[Steft50]

What a huge discrepancy. How dare they try and change their story from going to Target to get milk to going to Target to get groceries. That must be the smoking gun.

<modsnip>

It's a serious question that points out how some of these "little" details keep changing and/or being added to with every interview the Zimmermans do. I also asked where the original reason for being on the street when he decided to follow Trayvon which was to go to Target to get milk.....something that seemed to be very specific in light of what ended up happening.

 

[Beyond Belief]

We have discussion here at home about just how cold it is outside. Overweight hubby with high blood pressure thinks 60 is comfortable, me with my normal weight and low blood pressure is freezing my butt off when its 60. I have been an adult Floridian for 42 years.

 

[Chris_Texas]

It's been over a month now since Trayvon was killed, I can only imagine how his family must feel. Hopefully the NAACP and other organizations continue to keep pressure on this case -- in my opinion that's the ONLY way this family is going to get even a chance at justice.

How long do you think we'll have to wait before hearing that Zimmerman has a book deal?

 

[csziggy]

I was kidnapped and robbed by a black man 13 or 14 years ago. For awhile I was fearful of all black men. I worked with a guy who was attacked, disfigured and left for dead by a homeless white guy who knew he'd just cashed his check and followed him. His lip was almost cut off and no amount of plastic surgery will make him look normal again. For awhile I was fearful of any white, unkempt male that I thought might be homeless. I guess I profiled men that met those criteria. I don't consider myself a racist, but there are some neighborhoods (that are predominantly black) that I avoid and if I have to drive through them I double check my door locks. In those neighborhoods, I'm suspicious of everyone... white, black, Hispanic, Asian. I'd like to see some stats for that area, if the majority of crimes are committed be young, black males, wouldn't it be reasonable to be more suspicious of young, black males ? Especially if they weren't known to live in the area ?

It's one thing for individuals to use personal experiences to try to avoid being victimized the same way again. Personally while I have not had your experience, I have been victimized by Northern European illegal immigrants on more than one occasion and as a result I will not do business with any foreign nationals from those areas.

But when law enforcement or stand ins for law enforcement - such as neighborhood watch - are trying to watch out for crime, they need to keep their eyes open for all possible perpetrators and not allow themselves to put blinders on. If because they have caught some black men for burglaries in a specific neighborhood, they only look for black men as suspects in other burglaries in that neighborhood, there is a very good chance that they will miss other possible burglars.

In philosophy that is known as the "black swan fallacy" - called that because European philosophers used 'logic' to say that since the only swans that had ever been seen were white, so all swans had to be white. Then someone got to Australia and black swans were found, spoiling their entire premise.

I posted a long message about that last thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7758008&postcount=1139"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16[/ame]

Law enforcement and those acting in the guise of law enforcement need to be careful about this. Aside from the civil rights violations of bad arrests, bad convictions, and mistreatment of innocents, it also leads to missing actual crimes and criminals.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[deelytful1]

I think not carrying around a gun would be more impressive.

He doesn't weigh 250 anymore. That weight was listed when he was arrested several years ago.

K thanks... I have a son who is 200 lbs and he is always warm,,,
oh AND we live in FL... sigh... i do NOT think GZ was cold...

 

[CHICANA]

When it is 55-60 here in CA we are f-r-e-e-z-i-n-g. I have to wears gloves and everything . Yet, when I am in Chicago visiting family and it is 60-it seems warm and lovely! Go figure.

I have a question/comment. In my mind I picture Trayvon talking on the phone with earbuds so that I imagine Zimmerman did not necessarily know that he was on the phone. So I see I guy walking around not with any real direction-a general direction- but not a specific one as he kind of dawdled while he walked and talked to his gf-not necessarily paying attention to what was around him until he notices Zimmerman following him.

Does anyone think that because he was on the phone but not holding the phone to his ear that Zimmerman mistook him for someone up to no good?

**disclaimer** that is my understanding of how he was on the phone. if that is inaccurate for the love of God please let me know so I don;t make a further <modsnip> of myself**

Didn't he say "there is something wrong with him"? or words to that affect?Perhaps he was gesturing with the phone call but since he was the only one that could hear the call his movements looked odd? I know when people are in the market with their Bluetooth on and I can't see their Bluetooth and they are yacking away to no one I always go through a minute of thinking they have a loose screw until I realize what is happening.The fact that he was a black youth, in my opinion, possibly confirmed Zimmerman's suspicions that he was some sort of criminal?

The real problem I have is that Zimmerman was armed and looking for criminals and sometimes we see what we want. Trayvon most likely fit Zimmerman's criminal profile,IMO, and by following him it became almost a self-fulfilling prophecy in that Trayvon questioned him and well the rest is history.

I would have more support for Zimmerman if he caught Trayvon in the act of doing something illegal-but pulling out a gun seems so disproportionate to Trayvon's possible reaction to being followed that I still think this rests squarely in Zimmermans lap. I cannot help but feel that he himself created the situation for Trayvon to be killed and if true, for himself to be harmed. I don't know that he had the intent to kill him-but do think he created a situation from nothing and I fault him for that. JMHO as always.

That's a good point ! I was one of the first in my neighborhood to get a blue-tooth headset. My hair covers my ears and since I was focused on arguing with my husband, it wasn't until I hung up on him to pay that I realized everybody in Quick Trip was staring at me like I was a total psycho. Oh yeah, I was arguing with him in Spanish so they probably thought I was walking through QT yelling in tongues !!

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip>

It's a serious question that points out how some of these "little" details keep changing and/or being added to with every interview the Zimmermans do. I also asked where the original reason for being on the street when he decided to follow Trayvon which was to go to Target to get milk.....something that seemed to be very specific in light of what ended up happening.

Sorry for the snark but it is getting kind of silly, imo, the way the people are piling on. I mean if I say I am running to Target to get milk, and than later I say that I am going to Target for groceries, is that really a change in my story? I think it is pretty consistent.

And saying that one is running out for milk may sound too specific, but many many people run out for milk and a few other things on Sunday night to prepare for monday mornings. When someone says they are going out for 'milk' it usually means 'milk+somethingelse+somethingelse.' Or in other words = GROCERIES.

 

[tezi]

You know it's funny/odd .... I came into this case late. I had seen blips on the news and just ignored it. The blips that I did see pointed to GZ being innocent so I thought he was. THEN...I started reading. And the more I read the madder I became. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can think this is acceptable. This is a crime board for peter, paul and mary's sake! We know a thing or two about how a normal investigation shoud go. SPD should be ashamed.....(I have a feeling they are gonna be wishing ashamed was all they were). Trayvon did not deserve this, no one does. It has to be stopped.

RBBM: I can't understand it either teh. It just boggles my mind that anyone thinks that this is in any way acceptable, because it isn't. And after reading some of the posts here, I just want to bang my head on my desk because I don't understand how anyone can defend GZ's actions.

Hitting the "thanks" button wasn't enough for me to do about this post. You have summed up exactly what I've been thinking!

I too, came into the this case late. I saw it on the news, but basically didn't pay much attention to it. Then, for some reason, I started reading the threads here. I really didn't have an opinion about GZ's guilt or anything until I started reading the threads. I quickly realized that GZ was clearly guilty of manslaughter. This shooting was in NO WAY justified, no matter how many ways GZ supporters try to spin it. He should have been arrested that night.

I can't bring myself to listen to the 9-11 call because I will probably end up hysterical myself. This was a clearly avoidable homicide that didn't have to happen. GZ had NO right following TM after the dispatcher told him he didn't need to continue doing "that."

I feel so terrible for TM's family.

GZ family is doing him NO favors by continuing to spin the story about GZ being beat so bad that he was a step away from ending up in a diaper. If he were beaten that bad, he would have been taken to the hospital.

JMO, IMO, :moo:, and all other disclaimers.

 

[HMSHood]

Actually, the call logs document that he called in complaints on people he identified as white as well as Hispanic. I totally understand the comment that someone "looks [ethnicity here]" as sometimes at a distance it is hard to tell. I have often said that someone looks to be of one ethnic background but I'm not sure. IMO, there are many AAs who look white or Hispanic. And I myself am often mistaken for Hispanic or Middle Eastern. My own daughter who is not mixed race has been mistaken for biracial.

IMO, if GZ were sure of TM's race initially he would have said so. But he didn't. IMO, he saw a teenager cutting through the property and decided to follow him because of the recent burglaries, not because of the teenager's skin tone (which, IMO, would have been difficult to tell at night anyway).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

If it was night time, there is no way one can tell. Also, it was a rainy day, so visibility would be worse.

 

[csziggy]

What is wrong with any of these instances??? A speed bike doing wheelies, putting himself and others in danger - he shouldn't have called LE? Why?

A pickup cutting people off - was the guy drunk? I've called LE at least three or four times in my life on drunk drivers and obtained the license plates on the ones I could see.

I was responding to your comment:

One other thing - the 46 phone calls to LE, in most cases a courtesy officer for a community is a cop, and they just call their buddies to do a drive-by or they take care of it themselves. GZ is not an officer so he couldn't do anything more than call LE. ALL 46 times he did just that.

BBM

I provided examples where GZ did NOT just "do anything more than call LE" as you claimed. In the examples I gave he followed people for various reasons AFTER he called LE.

IMO, JMO, etc.