17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[AngelWings444]

JMO - GZ doesn't look like he is afraid of anything (maybe now, since it's been reported he is crying in jail). :jail: But, on that night and the prior calls, he seems to have a want to be LE attitude, and quite a few other things. I will not say right now. He certainly didn't act scared or afraid, when he was on the 911 call, following Trayvon etc.. I also try to look at his surrounding "friends" and family speaking out. Nope, fear is something I'm just not feeling from GZ.

I think the charging document might be correct. :twocents:

JMO, MOO

 

[JeannaT]

Need a lawyer here...

Is what she says he said admissible in court or is that considered hearsay?

I don't think all the girlfriend's testimony is "hearsay". "Hearsay" refers to someone explaining what happened, and you repeating it. Her testimony - what she heard coming over the phone - would be the same as any witness who was listening from their condo.

His DESCRIPTIONS of what was going on are hearsay, but when she heard him address GZ and heard GZ talk back and then she heard a scuffle, that's direct witness testimony. She heard it herself as it was happening.

I do kind of hesitate to believe her testimony, because she had days with lawyers before she encountered LE, and she has every reason to protect Trayvon's reputation and legacy.

But what she heard over the phone wouldn't be ruled "hearsay".

 

[LinasK]

I don't think all the girlfriend's testimony is "hearsay". "Hearsay" refers to someone explaining what happened, and you repeating it. Her testimony - what she heard coming over the phone - would be the same as any witness who was listening from their condo.

His DESCRIPTIONS of what was going on are hearsay, but when she heard him address GZ and heard GZ talk back and then she heard a scuffle, that's direct witness testimony. She heard it herself as it was happening.

I do kind of hesitate to believe her testimony, because she had days with lawyers before she encountered LE, and she has every reason to protect Trayvon's reputation and legacy.

But what she heard over the phone wouldn't be ruled "hearsay".

True, but anything his father or Frank Taffe are putting out there is hearsay!

 

[JeannaT]

True, but anything his father or Frank Taffe are putting out there is hearsay!

That's true.

 

[suspicious1]

Sorry but I'm still trying to catch up and watch JVM at the same time.

I had a conversation with a friend earlier about GZ. She can't see how the prosecution will be able to prove that GZ confronted Tray AND that GZ had no other options but to kill Tray. Here were my thoughts.....

I have faith in this prosecutor and truly believe that she has the evidence to back up the claims made in the report. I think that they have heard bits and pieces of the confrontation between Tray and GZ. I think they have enhanced all of the background audio from the 911 calls. Does anyone remember the witness that said she put her phone up to the window while Tray and GZ were arguing? I think that call in particular will help the prosecution. What if Tray was heard trying to diffuse the situation? IMO that exchange would tell me who started the confrontation and who didn't want no part of it. If I heard that type of exchange and then heard screams for help there would be no question as to WHO was screaming and WHY. Does that make sense?

IMO those calls are going to play a major roll in this case not necessarily because of the witnesses themselves but the background audio during the calls.

JMO as always.

 

[Ada]

Wow, again...incredulous that folks are still continuing to essentially criticize TM for not being polite enough to suit some people's expected level of manners?

Yeah, next time I feel threatened by someone following me in the dark, I'm just gonna turn around and say, "Well, hello there! Can I offer you some tea?"

:what:

Once upon a time, many many moons ago, when I was a college girl, I found myself out walking alone at night, after having spent time in the park reading a book. A man jumped from the bushes with his pants around his ankles. He grabbed me and tried to pull me into the bushes. I yelled at him "get your f'ing hands off of me" and then I smashed him in the face with my book. He let go of me and ran away.

I guess I'm lucky that he didn't invoke SYG and kill me for smashing him in the face with my book. That must have been quite scary for him.

 

[Lovejac]

Would you turn around and challenge them verbally if it's highly reasonable you could outrun them and safety was 70 yards away?

I certainly wouldn't want someone who was following me to see where I lived.

 

[beach]

No, on the prosecution (legally). They have to prove otherwise. He does not have to take the stand.

Here is a link. Because he is using the Stand Your Ground law as his defense he will have to take the stand at a hearing and testify. I know it is strange but in this law the burden at this hearing is on the defense.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...n-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite

I am going to try to explain this the best way I know how.

Zimmerman will most certainly claim that he was within his rights citing the SYG law. In the legal world, that is considered an affirmative defense.

Think of it this way, insanity is also an affirmative defense. If a defendant claims they are innocent by reason of insanity, the burden shifts to the defendant to PROVE that they are insane.


Same thing with SYG. The defendant has to put on evidence (in this case it will have to be testimony) that supports GZ's claim that he felt his life was in imminent danger, so therefore he had a right to shoot.

 

[songline]

I didn't save the link, but a few days ago the Martin's attorney, Crumb, used the term "connects the dots" in describing the girlfriend's testimony. If her story is even remotely close to what's been reported, and if her's and Trayvon's phone records line up to within seconds of his being shot, she's going to be a very important part of the prosecution's case.

You may be right and I hope you are wrong.
3 weeks later is when she came up with the report.
Lots could have happend in between.
I actually think it has.

And I have been saying "connecting the dots" since the very early threads and on many posts.
I do think they read here LOL

 

[AngelWings444]

Doesn't the hearsay rule change if the person is dead? I think Trayvon's statements to his girlfriend might be able to come in. These were things he said before he was shot to death.

Where's a lawyer when you need one?

 

[ThoughtFox]

By claiming he was within his rights citing the SYG law, it will be an affirmative defense. The burden of proof switches. He is going to have to testify and present his case that his actions fall under the SYG law.

Thanks to all the many people who have explained this tonight! I understand the whole process so much better now.

It's just common sense that George would have to explain in his own words what happened because the Jury has to prove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. How can they decide that without hearing George's story in his own words?

 

[Adrienne37]

So if the claims against GZ are dismissed at the prelminary hearing level, or if he prevails at trial on SYG grounds, he should be immune from civil liability as well. And bearing on the HOA issue, it seems to me that if GZ was acting on their behalf or with their agency at the time of the shooting, the HOA also would be immune, or at least should prevail for that reason. I don't know whether a claim for an independent act of negligence on the part of the HOA could still prevail, though. I do know it won't stop someone from trying, though!

According to many articles published over the last few days, Trayvon's family certainly has the right to sue the HOA irregardless of what happens in Zimmerman's case.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-lawsuit-neighborhood-watch-article-1.1058522

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...tion-possible-target-for-trayvon-martin-suit/


~jmo~

 

[ThoughtFox]

Doesn't the hearsay rule change if the person is dead? I think Trayvon's statements to his girlfriend might be able to come in. These were things he said before he was shot to death.

Where's a lawyer when you need one?

The defense will probably fight having the girlfriend included, and they will argue about the timeline of events (as posters here have done as well). But I think she will make a good witness for the State because after all, most of the other witnesses, including the 911 operator, merely "heard" what was happening instead of seeing it. They aren't going to throw out all the witnesses based on hearsay. This is just my opinion - I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Karmady]

That's a good question. Last night I saw different talking head lawyers go either way.

Hearsay is an out-of-court statement by a declarant offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted. So, for example, if the GF says Trayvon told me he was going to walk fast, it is not hearsay unless her testimony is offered to prove that Trayvon did, in fact, walk fast. If it is offered for some other reason, and is otherwise found to be relevant, it is not hearsay.

Also, there are many exceptions to the hearsay rule that could and probably will apply under the circumstances of this case. jmoo

 

[elementary]

Nancy Grace has some guy from a radio station in FL saying Zimmerman wants to apologize to the family of Trayvon's.

Pure nonsense spin put out by Zimmerman and his lawyer.

He can't apologize to them unless he is going to admit to the guilt.

Otherwise all he can say is I am sorry for your son making me kill him.

He had 45 days to apologise. He shows no remorse. IMO he feels justified.

This is image rehabilitation. I also hear he wants to do it face to face. He could do it over the phone, but no, it seems that Trayvon's parents would have to come to him. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[songline]

Once upon a time, many many moons ago, when I was a college girl, I found myself out walking alone at night, after having spent time in the park ready a book. A man jumped from the bushes with his pants around his ankles. He grabbed me and tried to pull me into the bushes. I yelled at him "get your f'ing hands off of me" and then I smashed him in the face with my book. He let go of me and ran away.

I guess I'm lucky that he didn't invoke SYG and kill me for smashing him in the face with my book. That must have been quite scary for him.

:what::what::what:


I was thinking poor thing she must have been horrified
and here you go saying it must have been quite a scare for him.:floorlaugh:

 

[Lovejac]

I watched one of the PC by the city of Sanford where they did state they had a copy of the hospital report where GZ went after he was released from custody.

Would loved to know what was on that report!!
And...Why couldn't that have been one of the items leaked?

That's the first I've heard of GZ actually going to the hospital. Interesting.

 

[JeannaT]

Once upon a time, many many moons ago, when I was a college girl, I found myself out walking alone at night, after having spent time in the park reading a book. A man jumped from the bushes with his pants around his ankles. He grabbed me and tried to pull me into the bushes. I yelled at him "get your f'ing hands off of me" and then I smashed him in the face with my book. He let go of me and ran away.

I guess I'm lucky that he didn't invoke SYG and kill me for smashing him in the face with my book. That must have been quite scary for him.

How horrible for you, and great that you got through this and were able to defend yourself. That's wonderful.

<modsnip> Can we all envision ourselves sitting across a kitchen table sipping coffee and discussing this civilly?

<modsnip>

 

[JeannaT]

That's the first I've heard of GZ actually going to the hospital. Interesting.

I heard it early on.

 

[rbrnmw2]

I understand what you're saying, but truth is we're all quite different. And we definitely don't know what Trayvon thought was about to happen...

Trayvon could have thought the stranger was trying to get sex from him. It happens more than you probably know, especially for nice looking boys like Trayvon. Most straight guys are VERY angered by being approached for gay sex.

I don't know, I'm just saying that we don't have a clue what Trayvon thought GZ was after. Except we can assume he felt harassed or threatened. At some point, it's illegal to make a person feel either of these ways. This is why they have the SYG law; you don't have to run or act submissive.

A strange guy was following me once, while I walked alone in my neighborhood early one evening. He had originally walked past me, then U-turned and I could hear his sneakers lightly hitting the sidewalk, coming too quickly behind me.

I sensed he was either about to rape me or rob me.

Maybe I should have been polite and asked him sweetly if I could help him. Maybe I should have run like the dickens. But I'm cut from a different cloth from you... I went into an angry, aggressive mode...

I turn around like a mad woman and started rambling through my purse, as if I was about to pull out a gun. (I had a tube of lipstick and my apt. keys, that was about it!!)

I started moving fast toward the guy while fishing in my purse, hollering "I will KILL you. I will KILL YOUUUUU!!!"

The guy started running away from ME! :woohoo:

I actually started chasing after HIM for a few feet... and then I came to my senses and stopped chasing him. lol

Maybe he thought I shouldn't be in my own neighborhood. Maybe I should have respectfully waited to learn why this creep was following me, coming up behind me fast in the dark on a lonely street.

But all I could think to do is try to shock the guy with some "reverse psychology."

Trayvon may have felt he was in a dangerous situation similar to mine. If Trayvon suspected a racist bully or whatever was following him and about to attack him, that guy deserves the same treatment as a rapist or robber, IMO. It is equally illegal to pose all of these types of threats.

I hate guns but an ex gave me a lighter that looks like a derringer I pulled out one night when some guy was following me I was scared because he was gaining on me he ran from me


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