17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[MaryAnn]

BBM. So if evidence hasn't been leaked at this point it means it doesn't exist?

The video of GZ being taken in was leaked so why wouldn't these pics be leaked. It appears that LE didn't do a proper investigation at the crime scene to say the least thanks to GZ and Florida's stupid law. Why was TM drug tested and GZ wasn't. It's truly unbelievable to me and so very wrong!

 

[JeannaT]

Seriously?

First and foremost, he wasn't a "watchman." A watchman is:

watch·man/ˈwäCHmən/
Noun:
A man employed to look after an empty building, esp. at night.
A member of a body of people employed to keep watch in a town at night.

Secondly, he wasn't supposed to be making "rounds."

Lastly, he was not supposed to carry his gun.

All of these issues are addressed within the article at the link. Zimmerman was nothing but a bully who thought he was a man by carrying his gun strapped on his waistband.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T4i1m6s1_TC

He wasn't making rounds, he was on his way to Target.

Does Crimewatch specifically state that they require everyone associated with their program to not hold CWP, and not carry a weapon ever?

I'm sure not.

This is a bit off topic, but interesting. I'm a crime watch captain for my neighborhood, and my brother's neighborhood is considering starting a crime watch program. The LE representative who spoke to his Neighborhood Association said when you assign your captains, don't take the first person who busts through the door anxious to be captain. Choose your captains from long standing residents who have a gift for getting along with people. This was just before this case broke. I would guess that advice would have been helpful in the Sanford case.

 

[Nova]

There was some discussion in one of these threads about who has the burden in a self defense case.

Alan Derschowitz was on one of the shows last night and said that the burden shifts to the defense. I can't recall if he specifically said SYG or just self defense.

I don't have a link so I guess TIFWIW, I just thought it was interesting.

JMHO

I know from personal experience as a juror in California that "justifiable homicide" is an affirmative defense, and so the burden shifts to the defendant. (Insanity is another example of an affirmative defense, burden on the defendant.)

I believe I read that in an SYG hearing before the beginning of trial, the defendant has the burden of showing by a preponderance of the evidence (lower standard) that he met the SYG requirements. But this is just IIRC, so don't take it as gospel.

 

[Isabelle]

I think we can be sure that if GZ had the injuries he claimed to have there would have been pictures taken by LE. On his release, GZ would have had someone take pics or would have taken his own. By now, those pics would be all over the world! No doubt.

 

[momshrink]

But... he was NOT a paid night watchman. He was only the volunteer Neighborhood Watch, which does not patrol. He however, did patrol according to his friend Frank.

Thank you for clarifying this! Neighborhood watch only watches, paid patrol, patrols. IMO GZ patrolled even though he was a neighborhood watch volunteer.

Not doing what he was supposed to do.
I wonder how much trouble he had with authority and following directions in his various jobs?

 

[MaryAnn]

He wasn't making round, he was on his way to Target.

Does Crimewatch specifically state that they require everyone associated with their program to not hold CWP, and not carry a weapon ever?

I'm sure not.

Why would you carry a loaded weapon to Target?

 

[2goldfish]

Would you turn around and challenge them verbally if it's highly reasonable you could outrun them and safety was 70 yards away?

I probably would. why? because WHY would I want this crazy stalkin' @ss person to know WHERE I LIVE!? (I dont presume to know what trayvon's thoughts were but those might be mine)

although this is presuming I have seen no firearm. in that case I'd be running my tail off zigzagging all over the place like that centipede game I used to play at the arcade in like...1986.

 

[Isabelle]

He wasn't making round, he was on his way to Target.

Does Crimewatch specifically state that they require everyone associated with their program to not hold CWP, and not carry a weapon ever?

I'm sure not.

I believe that was included in the training provided by LE at a NW meeting. Can't remember the name of LE that trained members of the area for NW, but there have been articles put out on what she specifically taught at the training sessions. Not pursuing a suspicions person and not carrying a weapon were definitely two of the points she covers.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The video of GZ being taken in was leaked so why wouldn't these pics be leaked. It appears that LE didn't do a proper investigation at the crime scene to say the least thanks to GZ and Florida's stupid law. Why was TM drug tested and GZ wasn't. It's truly unbelievable to me and so very wrong!

I'm sure that there is much more evidence that hasn't been leaked so I'm not going to say that there are no photos of GZ's alleged injuries at this point. JMO.

 

[Isabelle]

I probably would. why? because WHY would I want this crazy stalkin' @ss person to know WHERE I LIVE!? (I dont presume to know what trayvon's thoughts were but those might be mine)

although this is presuming I have seen no firearm. in that case I'd be running my tail off zigzagging all over the place like that centipede game I used to play at the arcade in like...1986.

I know I couldn't run for long, I would probably feign a heart attack and pretend to collapse.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Why would you carry a loaded weapon to Target?

That's why people get a CCW permit. So they can legally carry a gun in public.

 

[Cher352]

Apparently, Trayvon erred that night by not curtsying, addressing GZ as "sir", and failing to offer him some of his Arizona Iced Tea. It's a shame the way kids today have no manners.

I know that is sarcasm but it is sad that in this day and time no one can trust anyone, it would be nice if we could but we can't. It would also be nice if gated communities weren't even required to feel somewhat safe.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Why would you carry a loaded weapon to Target?

"Target" :floorlaugh: Thought it was a shooting range?

 

[JeannaT]

Why would you carry a loaded weapon to Target?

Because he's afraid. He's afraid for his own safety, and has a bit of a hero complex and wants to be the one in the store that saves the day if some nutjob comes into Target and starts shooting up the citizenry.

That's the type of person who has a CWP. That's how they view the world, and themselves.

(Note: there are people with CWPs who have incredibly dangerous jobs or have to work in very very dangerous areas, and they are exempt from the above characterization of urban guys with CWPs.)

 

[Velouria]

I....think you are the first person to even make me burst into laughter and tears at the same time, congrats. here is your thwartcake :cupcake:

:blowkiss: :uk: :seeya:

 

[2goldfish]

Ever since I was robbed at gunpoint, I have been on guard when walking in public. If I know or sense someone is behind me, I will suddenly turn around and look straight at them. I have heard that this will lessen you chances of being a target for attack.

:hug: I am sorry that happened to you.


it hasnt happened to me...but when people walk behind me I turn around and ask them what time it is. then they tell me and go away.

 

[beach]

I think it all started when George called 911. :coffeews:

meh...I'll give him the 911 call. :coffeews: He had that routine down pat.

I think it all started when he irresponsibly chose to defy the dispatcher's trained response to not follow Trayvon. If he would've just gone back to his car, Trayvon would still be alive, GZ would not be facing the backlash he is now.

He called 911. That should have been The End.


For me, it really is that simple. A bad, bad choice. One that cannot be undone. One that ruined so many lives.

 

[Gin]

He was NOT a watchman- paid or unpaid, nor should he have been patrolling, although he was. He was a volunteer Neighborhood Watch, who is not supposed to patrol, nor carry a weapon. GZ also had a Concealed Weapon Permit, which is in conflict with his role...

JMO/IMO, etc....

LinasK-I may be wrong, but I don't think there is a neighborhood watch group in the country that would say patrolling Zimmerman style is in any way neighborhood watch.
Neighborhood watch groups would never allow anyone to behave like Zimmerman because it would leave their homes/condos and associations at a huge financial risk of lawsuits.
I believe they would probably say he set up his own program, under his own rules. (With the endorsement of the condo...what were they thinking???)

 

[2goldfish]

Nurse, have you ever encountered that happening, or heard of it? I just can't even picture it, a man with a concealed weapon getting into a physical altercation with a man who is clearly his equal in a fist fight. Trayvon is much taller, looks stronger to me, and would not be an easy win in a fight.

In my experience, men who carry are fearful men who don't engage in fistfights. That's why they carry. They're afraid of the world in general, and they don't want to be in a situation where they might be slugged.

All we can do here is look at these two young men, the minimal evidence that we've seen, and try to reconstruct what is most likely.

In my world, it's terribly unlikely that a man with a gun would engaged in hand to hand combat.

I think the most likely thing is that GZ put his hands on trayvon to "hold" him for the cops, and trayvon might well have struggled, headbutted him, threw the first punch.....trayvon did not KNOW what he know, all he knew was someone stalking him was now putting hands on him and restraining him, I absolutely can see why he "started" it if in fact he did, in my scenario.

GZ didnt expect this to go all to hell like it did. I really pity him for how his crappy issues have ruined his own life as well as taking trayvon's completely. if his site was any indication he only feels sorry for himself too.

 

[jjenny]

I know from personal experience as a juror in California that "justifiable homicide" is an affirmative defense, and so the burden shifts to the defendant. (Insanity is another example of an affirmative defense, burden on the defendant.)

I believe I read that in an SYG hearing before the beginning of trial, the defendant has the burden of showing by a preponderance of the evidence (lower standard) that he met the SYG requirements. But this is just IIRC, so don't take it as gospel.

California is different from Florida. Because of SYG in Florida, the burden will be on the prosecution.