17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[annalia]

BBM...I just wanted to emphasize this.

Sounds like that would actually apply to Trayvon, not GZ. Trayon was not engaged in any unlawful activity.

JMHO

 

[LambChop]

Wet grass without leaving a watermark on the jacket? I know, when I clean a spot off an item of clothing, that area shows a wet spot (unless I blow dry it :what. Since it was unusually "cold" that evening, I don't believe any water spot would be dry before getting to the police station.

It's Florida and the jacket may be waterproof for all we know which means it would dry pretty fast. LE described GZ's jacket as wet with pieces of cut grass, I believe. Most of the grass was probably left in the police car. We know the back to GZ's jacket was wet and had grass on it because it's in the police report. jmo

 

[Nova]

And that's the part that is so scary, I'm afraid you may be right, GZ believed he did not need a reason, under the law. I'm saying I think he had to have a reason before he approached Trayvon. I sure hope he needed more then just thinking in his mind Trayvon looked suspicious, therefore he had every right to approach Trayvan, and say and do what ever he wanted to, under the law.

What law are you talking about that prevents anyone from approaching and speaking to anyone else in a public space?

Don't get me wrong: I wish GZ hadn't done so. But I don't see how it was against the law (at that point), not even if we don't like what GZ was thinking at the time.

 

[songline]

So now Zimmerman at age 28 is a boy?


~jmo~

when you are 65 that happens - I often think they are all boys. LOL

 

[Phoenixfla]

1. What is the point of chasing and following someone you don't intend to catch?

To contunie to monitor the situation and report to LE once they arrived.

2. If you do catch that person, what would your next course of action be?

Perhaps GZ did not intend to "catch" TM, only to continue to observe. Perhaps this continued observation angered TM to the point that he is the one that confronted GZ and started the physical altercation.

Just my opinion. Remember the SA has to prove beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT. If there is one person on that jury that believes that it is reasonably possible that it happened that way, you get a hung jury.

 

[HiHater]

No, he's saying that racial profiling isn't a crime when it is done by a private citizen such as GZ. So there was no reason for the SA to mention it in her affidavit.

Yes, some government agencies have rules against racial profiling and the Supreme Court has ruled against profiling by officers of the court (in jury selection), for example.

But a private citizen like GZ can call the police because he finds black people suspicious. And I can lock my car doors when a black person walks past my car. Etc. and so forth.

When that private citizen then assaults or murders the black person, he or she has effectively committed a hate crime. :moo:

 

[LolaMoon08]

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Breaking: Quran-burning Pastor Terry Jones says he's planning to hold a #GeorgeZimmerman rally in Sanford on Saturday. #TrayvonMartin

He has a right, however misguided it is, to have a rally to support George Zimmerman. It will be interesting to see who shows up? I hope that those who support Justice for Trayvon completely ignore it and don't even pay any attention to it.

MOO

 

[Nova]

--based on other stmts. in the affidavit, it looks to me that she's going for 'criminally profiled'.

--some references to crime/criminal in the affidavit.

http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/new...george-zimmerman-probable-cause-affadavit.pdf
--affidavit of probable cause--

--"Martin was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by GZ. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime."

--"During the recorded call, GZ made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away w/ break-ins in his neighbourhood."

--"GZ observed TM and assumed TM was a criminal".

--"TM attempted to run home but was followed by GZ who didn't want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime get away before LE arrived."

I don't think she's trying to prove "criminal profiling". It really isn't illegal for private citizens.

I think she wants to establish that GZ accosted TM (in order to detain him) rather than to allow GZ's claim that he was accosted by TM to stand.

 

[AngelWings444]

You seem very sure that there was no blood or marks. I have not seen any clear photos of GZ from the night of the incident. Perhaps you can forward them to me?

Well, I didn't see any marks, blood on his body or on his clothes. The video tape at the police station is pretty clear, not perfect. Can you please forward me pictures of GZ's injuries, blood, swollen anything, cracked head etc..?

 

[Velouria]

Uhhh....I believe in this case it refers to "great bodily harm" such as if someone jumped on you and started smashing your head into the concrete several times.

You mean like the one-step-away-from-being-spoon-fed-by-big brother-for-the-rest-of-his-life, not-so-much-as-a-Spongebob-bandaid-from-the-EMTs sort of "great bodily harm"?

 

[Nova]

Very nice summary, and I concur. It all boils down to the PHYSICAL confrontation. If GZ tried to detain, "accost", restrain, hold, assult, or anything else that require GZ to touch TM, then I say lock him up, BUT if TM started the PHYSICAL confrontation by shoving, punching, etc. GZ, then I think GZ had every right to defend himself.

You may be right about the letter of the law, but common sense should tell one that surprising somebody when he is alone and in the dark may provoke a frightened, physical response. I don't think such a reaction should be a license for murder.

But then I find it appalling that some states allow almost everyone to run around carrying concealed firearms.

 

[AngelWings444]

It's Florida and the jacket may be waterproof for all we know which means it would dry pretty fast. LE described GZ's jacket as wet with pieces of cut grass, I believe. Most of the grass was probably left in the police car. We know the back to GZ's jacket was wet and had grass on it because it's in the police report. jmo

Yes, because LE put it in the report, it must be right. 1st report, amended report? :seeya:

 

[songline]

So... you're not willing to put the the 'enthusiatic boy' out to dry until all the facts are in but you're willing to readily accept that Trayvon was up to no good without those same facts? That's fair.

I am still waiting for the facts.
I am never willing to be an enabler, did I say NEVER, OK then NEVER;
folks I know never had any screwdrivers and Jewelry in their bag.
Can I imagine casing? :waitasec: I SURE CAN. Does not mean that he was. That does not mean he deserves a bullet.
I can also see a very overzealous Zimmerman.

ALL this is much different then – being judge and jury.

 

[songline]

Good, I'm glad it's a scary place. Not that GZ will know how scary it is to look down the barrel of a gun...!

<modsnip>!:fence:

Until I know that he did anything at all with Malice.
I am going to watch for the details to come.
I don&#8217;t have any juice for vengeance&#8230;
I have a mind for accountability and to get there we need the facts.

 

[m00c0w]

When that private citizen then assaults or murders the black person, he or she has effectively committed a hate crime. :moo:

Not necessarily. If the intent was never to harm anyone from the beginning, it'd be hard to prove a hate crime. A hate crime implies the violence was committed because of the individual's race or other affiliation. If the violence was not premeditated, it becomes hard to prove that race was the motivation behind the violence. There's a difference between wrongly feeling your life is in danger and using a disproportionate amount of force and hunting someone down to kill them because they are of a certain affiliation.

 

[Isabelle]

Well, I didn't see any marks, blood on his body or on his clothes. The video tape at the police station is pretty clear, not perfect. Can you please forward me pictures of GZ's injuries, blood, swollen anything, cracked head etc..?

Legitimate medical documentation would be good too, since we all know about photoshop!

 

[Nova]

When that private citizen then assaults or murders the black person, he or she has effectively committed a hate crime. :moo:

That's true. Then the "profiling" becomes an enhancement (which may not be the correct legal term), but only after another overt illegal act.

I see your point, but I don't think that's the same thing as saying "racial profiling" by private citizens is illegal.

 

[Isabelle]

Well then I know you wont be on that Jury - Thank you GOD!!!!:fence:

Until I know that he did anything at all with Malice.
I am going to watch for the details to come.
I don’t have any juice for vengeance…
I have a mind for accountability and to get there we need the facts.

Been on criminal jury. I do have ethical standards and wouldn't be swayed by comments made on a forum such as this one.

BTW: I do know how scary it is to look down the barrel of a gun that is pointed at my face. It knocks the wind out of you!

 

[LolaMoon08]

I would really like to know if they have any probable cause, since he has been arrested for 2nd degree murder, to get his computer records? I think it would be interesting to see if he had any knowledge of the SYG laws prior to the shooting that night? What online forums did he belong to, if he belonged to any? What online activity, if any, did he have prior to going out that night?

I would like to know his frame of mind the moment he walked out of that door.

MOO

 

[rotterdam]

Under the law as it existed BEFORE Stand Your Ground, people had the right to protect themselves and their homes. Law enforcement and legal authorities went before the Florida Legislature to say that the provisions in SYG were NOT needed and that it would probably lead to abuses, exactly the kind of abuses that have been seen.

SYG is just overkill in every sense of the word. It goes too far and needs to be repealed. Getting rid of SYG will not remove the pre-existing rights to protect life and property, it will just remove the extraordinary provisions added for no rational reason.

JMO, IMO, etc.

And that SYG immunity clause, which confuses the heck out of LE plus could hurt them in the pocket book later on when they lose if they get a jury from Pinellas County:floorlaugh: