17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #28

[grandmaj]

The Investigator said the evidence does not show that George's head was beat on the pavement or some such words as I recall.

However when the question was asked by MOM another way, he conceded that an injury like that could happen by hitting his head on concrete.

Big difference here. The evidence does not lead . Conjecture about what could, might have or is possible, is much different than the Investigator saying the evidence does not prove that story out.

And even though the information wasn't allowed in, and there appear to be from what the State Attorney was trying to get in, conflicting reports by George to the investigators.

This is only the bond hearing. The State knew that bond was going to be issued. Of course they argued against it. But they were not going to give away all the evidence in a bond hearing either.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

But relying upon circumstantial also brings up reasonable doubt. There were a lot of potential witnesses in the complex, many called 911. But none were able to say who started the physical fight.

IMO there will be a lot of reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors.

 

[Concerned Papa]

To me the meaning of what this person is telling us is that Trayvon was shot in the BACK. That is the only place this "new" witness would be able to see the GSR on Trayvon's hoodie!

Seems that way, doesn't it?

Before all the posts come sailing that the investigator said this morning that he was shot in the chest, let me ask you something. If you were told that a victim had been shot in the head, does that imply a direction of the shot? What about if shot in the leg, arm, foot, etc. Do any of those terms dictate direction of the shot?

As long as a bullet goes into the head, the victim has been shot in the head. Isn't it at least, something to consider that for whatever reason may be, the SA could be viewed as saying the bullet went into the chest cavity, albeit from behind, so therefore he was shot in the chest?

IDK, I'm just reading what the same "eyewitness" who allegedly took this newest picture has said. If TM was shot from the front, how'd this person clearly see GSR on TM as he was lying face down unless he was shot in the back?

 

[LolaMoon08]

I believe TM was clearly the aggressor as evidenced by the injuries to GZ's nose and head. He seems to have escalated the situation.

You can say that without having any knowledge of what injuries Trayvon had to his body? The injuries don't look bad to me at all? I haven't see the photographic evidence or the medical documentation about George's nose yet, so I'll wait on that. His head injuries are not consistent with his head being banged repeatedly into the cement though?

MOO

 

[jaded cat]

I don't think he believed TM was "innocent" and it doesn't look like he was. The injury to GZ's head didn't come from nowhere. TM attacked him imo.

TM may have been defending himself from an attack by GZ. TM is the victim here, don't forget that important fact.

 

[badme102]

All of the boded can be true and it still be 2nd degree murder. None of that proves what GZ's intent was.............

Thanks. Frankly, I'm getting tired of saying the same thing. I have been saying it for days. :crazy:

 

[jaded cat]

I believe TM was clearly the aggressor as evidenced by the injuries to GZ's nose and head. He seems to have escalated the situation.

You can't possibly know that unless you were there. Assuming facts NOT in evidence.

 

[SuziQ]

OMG - Zimmerman said Trayvon was circling his car?



~jmo~

IMO, this shows that GZ did not know his call was recorded. If this shooting truly went down as a SYG, then there would be no reason for the lies and various stories.

 

[gxm]

To me the meaning of what this person is telling us is that Trayvon was shot in the BACK. That is the only place this "new" witness would be able to see the GSR on Trayvon's hoodie!

Yes. I was wondering about that too. Maybe he noticed it after the TM had been turned over. I can't imagine that if TM were shot in the back we wouldn't have heard yet. That's a pretty significant factor in this case. I'm also curious how one would see GSR… on a gray hoodie… at night… in the rain. How close did this person get to TM and why was he or she allowed so close?

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[CHICANA]

You can't possibly know that unless you were there. Assuming facts NOT in evidence.

The injuries to GZ were described in the police report as well as the witness testimony. It is fact that a witness states TM was attacking GZ and it is fact that a police officer described GZ's injuries.

 

[badme102]

I believe TM was clearly the aggressor as evidenced by the injuries to GZ's nose and head. He seems to have escalated the situation.

I clearly think you have it backwards and like I said, I think AC and her office agrees with my assertion.

I respect that you have your opinion, but what you are seeing "clearly" is not clear at all. Not even close.

Again, GZ's injuries do not prove that he was attacked first, they do not show that he wasn't the aggressor, they do not show what his intentions were, they do not show that he did not approach Trayvon with his gun drawn, etc..etc...etc...:banghead:

 

[katydid23]

The Investigator said the evidence does not show that George's head was beat on the pavement or some such words as I recall.

However when the question was asked by MOM another way, he conceded that an injury like that could happen by hitting his head on concrete.

Big difference here. The evidence does not lead . Conjecture about what could, might have or is possible, is much different than the Investigator saying the evidence does not prove that story out.

And even though the information wasn't allowed in, and there appear to be from what the State Attorney was trying to get in, conflicting reports by George to the investigators.

This is only the bond hearing. The State knew that bond was going to be issued. Of course they argued against it. But they were not going to give away all the evidence in a bond hearing either.

BBM

But from what I understood from the attorneys on HLN today, the state had to answer with any evidence they had today about certain questions when asked. They cannot legally withhold any evidence when the defense asks for it. In other words, they are locked into some of their answers today.

 

[LynnM]

I would like for whoever took this picture to go on Nancy Grace tonight and tell us exactly how he was able to get so close to the suspect in a shooting, that was supposed to be handcuffed, during an investigation, to even get this photograph??

Unless -- it was taken before LE got there? Someone did say they seen someone with a flashlight and it looks like someone shone a light on the head? Or it may be the flash? It would have to be someone he knew and someone who didn't care that a kid lay dying on the ground? Since I don't think anyone tried to give Trayvon any kind of medical care.

But who was George calling right after he shot and killed Trayvon?? He has the phone in his hand? I mean, it had to have been within seconds of the shooting as police arrived very quickly right?

I have always thought there was someone out there with GZ before the police arrived based on the 911 call which reported that there was someone walking around with a flashlight just after the shot. I'd have called my husband, but according to the photographer, GZ asked HIM to do it. I would guess GZ called his father since we have now heard that he called the police only once.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

TM may have been defending himself from an attack by GZ. TM is the victim here, don't forget that important fact.

And if this was self defense, GZ is a victim.
He has not been convicted.

We can't forget about that either.

 

[Adrienne37]

IMO, this shows that GZ did not know his call was recorded. If this shooting truly went down as a SYG, then there would be no reason for the lies and various stories.

Amen SuziQ! Why all the lies and changing stories by Zimmerman in each of his different interviews? He tweaked his story after each interview. As I stated earlier, I can now see why they have charged Zimmerman with second degree murder with a depraved mind. He really is depraved and that was proven 100% at today's hearing.


~jmo~

 

[CHICANA]

IMO, this shows that GZ did not know his call was recorded. If this shooting truly went down as a SYG, then there would be no reason for the lies and various stories.

I didn't know the actual shooting was recorded in GZ's 911 call. GZ said he was reaching for his phone to call 911 when he was attacked.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

BBM

But from what I understood from the attorneys on HLN today, the state had to answer with any evidence they had today about certain questions when asked. They cannot legally withhold any evidence when the defense asks for it. In other words, they are locked into some of their answers today.

That's how I understood it too.
That was a brilliant question by O'Mara. IMO

 

[dsntslp]

How is anybody 'seeing' gunshot residue anyway?
When I go to the range I don't 'see' residue on my hands even after going through 6 boxes of ammo. I sure DO smell the GSR for a while, no matter how may times I wash my hands, but geez, I don't remember ever 'seeing' any GSR on my hands or clothes.

Anybody else?

 

[csziggy]

Finally caught up!!

The picture:

1) Why was some random person allowed inside a crimescene to take a picture of George's head? Since when are random people allowed to go up to people who are suspects in a crime and get close enough to take a picture... like right up on him and take a picture?

2) I thought SPD held George by gunpoint until they could handcuff him, but he is not handcuffed in this picture? You can see the cell phone in his hand?

3) Was this picture taken before LE arrived?? Who took it??

So weird??

Also, I could care less about George's injuries! Never cared before. Don't care now!

The story says this picture was taken 3 minutes after the shooting, but according to Officer Timothy Smith, he had arrived at 7:17 and almost immediately cuffed GZ. Officer Ayalla who arrived at 7:19 said Officer Smith had GZ in custody. TM was shot between 7:16 and 7:17 according to every timeline I've seen, certainly before Officer Smith arrived.

So the claim in the article is that the photo was taken at approximately 7:20? Shouldn't GZ be in cuffs as described ("in custody") in Officer Ayalla's report?

This photo, even if taken at face value, adds MORE questions - did the officers lie in their reports? As you said, who let some random person into the crime scene area and have access to a suspect supposedly "in custody" at that point? Why isn't the person "in custody" cuffed as indicated in the police reports? :waitasec:

Who was it that said this photo seems hinky? I've got to agree!

IMO, JMO, etc. since all I have are questions at this time!

 

[Concerned Papa]

Yes. I was wondering about that too. Maybe he noticed it after the TM had been turned over. I can't imagine that if TM were shot in the back we wouldn't have heard yet. That's a pretty significant factor in this case. I'm also curious how one would see GSR… on a gray hoodie… at night… in the rain. How close did this person get to TM and why was he or she allowed so close?

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

IIRC, according to the police narrative, TM wasn't turned over until the arrival on scene of Officer Ricardo Alaya(sp?), who turned him over and began trying to revive him. By this time, GZ was already in custody and in cuffs, which he wasn't in the picture allegedly taken by the same witness.

So it seems to me that IF he saw GSR, it would have to have been before the other officers arrived in scene and began CPR on Trayvan.