17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[m00c0w]

I hope you are right, but I have heard that many a defense strategy is to trash the victim. If they bring up Trayvon's SCHOOL record does the prosecution then have the go ahead to bring up GZ's CRIMINAL record?

If Martin's school record shows that he was violent recently and can go into a possible state of mind that night, possibly. The non-violent stuff, nope. The reason Zimmerman's records weren't really allowed is because they're from ~7 years ago. It's hard to say that something from so long ago is indicative of how he behaved that night.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It was in the hearing yesterday. The SA said it was in Zimmerman's statement.

I can't wait to get my eyes and ears on these statements! I think we might all understand why he has been charged once we get them!

 

[HiHater]

Do we know if they tried to talk to him and he refused? I know those two-former-maybe-lawyers of GZ stated he tried to contact the SA himself -- but we don't know if prior to that they tried to talk with him and he refused??

No, I don't know that one way or the other. Maybe the state just evaluated his previous statements. When he was interviewed by the police it was recorded. That's another way the state could have seen his injuries, or lack thereof.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Do you have evidence that he chose not to? I believe it's been stated before that he requested medical treatment or to go to the hospital and it was declined.

It was hinted at by Zimmerman's legal adviser on tv that george wanted to go to the hospital or something. The evidence he chose not to is if he wanted to go nobody would have stopped him and I believe there are papers out there signed by him refusing further treatment like knowledgeable posters have said there would be.

 

[Donjeta]

If Martin's school record shows that he was violent recently and can go into a possible state of mind that night, possibly. The non-violent stuff, nope. The reason Zimmerman's records weren't really allowed is because they're from ~7 years ago. It's hard to say that something from so long ago is indicative of how he behaved that night.

If they get the suspicious behavior and burglary tools in it might also be used to create the impression (even if subconsciously) that GZ was right and TM was behaving suspiciously and possibly casing the place.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It was hinted at by Zimmerman's legal adviser on tv that george wanted to go to the hospital or something. The evidence he chose not to is if he wanted to go nobody would have stopped him and I believe there are papers out there signed by him refusing further treatment like knowledgeable posters have said there would be.

As much as I think George is 100% guilty in the death of Trayvon, I still think he should file a complaint with the Florida Bar on these two! That press conference they gave was disgusting and they did not do George any favors -- at all.

 

[LambChop]

The state has said a lot of things in that affidavit that aren't holding up to scrutiny. The sad thing is, no one will be held responsible on that end if it turns out the affidavit has falsities in it. The buck will just be passed to the other investigator ("I thought he typed it and I have no reason to not believe him!") and immunity passed all around.

A detective cannot testify to events he did not, himself, witness only testified to the content of the document which evidence he has seen and knows to be true. MOM was asking questions as if the detective had first hand knowledge which he testified he did not. It is not that the information is false, the detective stated he was not there when certain statements were taken by the other detectives. I believe this detective was picked for testify by defense for that reason alone to make it appear the information gathered in the documentation was incorrect. jmo

 

[HiHater]

The state has said a lot of things in that affidavit that aren't holding up to scrutiny. The sad thing is, no one will be held responsible on that end if it turns out the affidavit has falsities in it. The buck will just be passed to the other investigator ("I thought he typed it and I have no reason to not believe him!") and immunity passed all around.

How can anyone really scrutinize the state's evidence, when it remains to be seen? Right now, we are all speculating based on a bond hearing. I could see you saying this after the SYG hearing, if there is one, but until then, we only see very limited information.

I'm not willing to discount the state until I see:

-the autopsy
-GZ's statements
-GZ's phone records/emails/text messages (that were briefly brought up)
-the girlfriend's full statement
-all witness statements
-EMT reports
-surveillance videos
-pictures of GZ's injuries taken by law enforcement

That investigator has been investigating homicides for 20+ years IIRC. It's not over yet.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[m00c0w]

It was hinted at by Zimmerman's legal adviser on tv that george wanted to go to the hospital or something. The evidence he chose not to is if he wanted to go nobody would have stopped him and I believe there are papers out there signed by him refusing further treatment like knowledgeable posters have said there would be.

<mod snip>

First, we'd surely know if he declined medical treatment because there would be signed waivers. The police would have forced him to get taken in, anyway, even with a minor head injury because of how severe it could have possibly been and the possibility they would be held liable. The police wouldn't have been able to take an affidavit from someone with a head injury because of the likelihood that it would get thrown out at trial... And other similar assertions.

Now that it appears he did have a head injury, it's characterized as "minor", even though there was so much hoopla about how even a minor-looking injury can be severe, which is why police surely would have forced him to go to the hospital. It clearly wasn't severe enough to impact his ability to give sworn testimony, and he surely signed a waiver (even though it was said numerous times the police would have compelled him to go to the hospital due to the potentially severe nature of head injuries) and went on his merry way.

 

[Dr. Know?]

If you want to know if GZ is released, follow him or sign up for updates via Vinelink, FL. I'm sure with him being so high profile, possibly hated so much by some, they will be awfully careful and sloooowww about updating Vinelink but sometimes that's the first place the public gets information on a suspect. It shows him still in Seminole County Jail presently.

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/d...10000&agency=57&id=315011&searchType=offender

 

[HiHater]

We also have to remember that other agencies/detectives participated in the investigation. We have not heard from SPD. Wasn't the FBI investigating, and would one of their investigators testify as well?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I'm just seeing a lot of fence-riding from those posters.

First, we'd surely know if he declined medical treatment because there would be signed waivers. The police would have forced him to get taken in, anyway, even with a minor head injury because of how severe it could have possibly been and the possibility they would be held liable. The police wouldn't have been able to take an affidavit from someone with a head injury because of the likelihood that it would get thrown out at trial... And other similar assertions.

Now that it appears he did have a head injury, it's characterized as "minor", even though there was so much hoopla about how even a minor-looking injury can be severe, which is why police surely would have forced him to go to the hospital. It clearly wasn't severe enough to impact his ability to give sworn testimony, and he surely signed a waiver (even though it was said numerous times the police would have compelled him to go to the hospital due to the potentially severe nature of head injuries) and went on his merry way.

How could the cops force him to go to the hospital?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Are school records even allowed to be admitted into evidence? I can understand juvenile records or even if he was violent towards an adult in the school -- but a bag of weed? With no weed in it?? The whole screwdriver thing -- a lot of people made it sound normal to have flashlights, screwdrivers, etc... on you even if you are just going to Target??

 

[impatientredhead]

Why does the lack of going to the hospital say so much about what happened, but the fact that GZ was released, not taken into custody, after questioning seems to have no significance.

 

[m00c0w]

How can anyone really scrutinize the state's evidence, when it remains to be seen? Right now, we are all speculating based on a bond hearing. I could see you saying this after the SYG hearing, if there is one, but until then, we only see very limited information.

I'm not willing to discount the state until I see:

-the autopsy
-GZ's statements
-GZ's phone records/emails/text messages (that were briefly brought up)
-the girlfriend's full statement
-all witness statements
-EMT reports
-surveillance videos
-pictures of GZ's injuries taken by law enforcement

That investigator has been investigating homicides for 20+ years IIRC. It's not over yet.

JMO MOO IMO

I'm talking about the affidavit and specific questions asked of the investigator. He was under oath, and anything he said can be used to impeach the state's testimony later. He made statements about not having reviewed key evidence that was mentioned in the affidavit that he personally signed and swore to. If the other investigator plays the same card and says that he doesn't recall writing it and the other person must have done it, no one is held liable for making a false affidavit. You're right, he's been investigating homicides for 20+ years. He should know to review the evidence he's putting his career on the line for, and he admitted several times he had not.

 

[HiHater]

I'm just seeing a lot of fence-riding from those posters.

First, we'd surely know if he declined medical treatment because there would be signed waivers. The police would have forced him to get taken in, anyway, even with a minor head injury because of how severe it could have possibly been and the possibility they would be held liable. The police wouldn't have been able to take an affidavit from someone with a head injury because of the likelihood that it would get thrown out at trial... And other similar assertions.

Now that it appears he did have a head injury, it's characterized as "minor", even though there was so much hoopla about how even a minor-looking injury can be severe, which is why police surely would have forced him to go to the hospital. It clearly wasn't severe enough to impact his ability to give sworn testimony, and he surely signed a waiver (even though it was said numerous times the police would have compelled him to go to the hospital due to the potentially severe nature of head injuries) and went on his merry way.

He was bleeding from the nose/head. FACT
He was treated at the scene. FACT
He was not transported to the hospital; the second ambulance was cancelled. FACT
According to his former attorneys, he asked for medical care, but that was denied. NOT FACT

From those facts and the one non-fact, I infer that his injuries were not serious enough to require transport. Therefore, no waiver would be needed.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[Isabelle]

Not only that, but they have to attempt to track down evidence I'm sure since it appears that SPD did no investigation.


~jmo~

I think it was a closed case as soon as SPD arrived on the scene. Whatever they did during the night, was for good face only.

 

[Cher352]

While I was listening to the investigator yesterday I sensed there was a lot of pressure put on him to make a case. Just the phrasing he used in the affidavit as MOM pointed out was very telling.

Shouldn't an investigator be objective like maybe looking at GZs medical records? I just cant understand why they did not ask GZ for those.

They didn't need to ask GZ for them, SPD already had them.

Both the investigator the SA not having the records makes me believed that they didn't bother looking at the SPD's case file very well as at one of the early news conference SPD said they had a copy of GZ's hospital report.

 

[HiHater]

I'm talking about the affidavit and specific questions asked of the investigator. He was under oath, and anything he said can be used to impeach the state's testimony later. He made statements about not having reviewed key evidence that was mentioned in the affidavit that he personally signed and swore to. If the other investigator plays the same card and says that he doesn't recall writing it and the other person must have done it, no one is held liable for making a false affidavit. You're right, he's been investigating homicides for 20+ years. He should know to review the evidence he's putting his career on the line for, and he admitted several times he had not.

I don't see where he admitted that at all. I see where he said certain words were not necessarily his. Maybe you can point me to where he said that several times?

Also, how often would a probable cause affidavit be the central focus of an actual trial? Once the defense has discovery of all the evidence, do you think they will disregard the actual evidence and continue to attack what one investigator said at a bond hearing? It wouldn't really matter, because the evidence will still speak for itself.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[impatientredhead]

How could the cops force him to go to the hospital?

Short of taking him into custody, at which point they are responsible for his welfare, they can't make him go.