17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[rotterdam]

I'm more anxious than "giddy," but I'm not ashamed of it.

I don't like bullies. I feel that people like Casey Anthony, Josh Powell, Scott Peterson, Drew Petersen and George Zimmerman share the same slick, ugly mindset. I am eager to see the law deal with them.

Other than that, I do enjoy the "sport" of lawyer vs. lawyer. I like to observe smart people match wits. There is a bit of Ali vs. Frazier inherent in these high-profile court cases. I admittedly pick a team: the victim's.

Please forgive me. lease:

It always reminds me of a chess game where you have to think several moves ahead.

 

[LambChop]

I'd say when a lead investigator potentially perjures himself in an affidavit or on the stand, that's a big deal.

The one that stuck out the most was that he said he never personally reviewed the testimony given by the girlfriend, but swore to a good part of a paragraph that revolves around this testimony.

Signing the affidavit was his acknowledgement that the evidence existed not that he, himself, collected it. It's not perjury unless he acknowledged that he was there during testimony and he actually was not. The affidavit was drawn up by a number of detectives, not just one because they all handled different portions. MOM would know that but may not have been aware of which statements were taken by this detective and which were not. jmo

 

[Donjeta]

Unless GZ was clairvoyant, I do not see how that could make a difference.
I guess if Trayvon would have had a screw driver or better yet a Swiss army knife on his slain body, his execution would be justified ?
Trayvon was not committing any crime. GZ did not see him breaking into a town house.

Agreed but if it goes to a trial, IMO the impressions the jury get are important. If they get the notion that one or another of the parties is a criminal it may influence how they weigh the evidence, even if it really had no logical bearing in what happened.

 

[HiHater]

I saw it referenced earlier, but can someone actually verbally deny going to the hospital to an EMT, even if he has injuries that an EMT thinks warrants hospital care? Also, I've never heard of two ambulances being needed to treat one patient. Could it be the 2nd ambulance was cancelled because it was meant for TM and TM was deemed...deceased?

I would have to listen to the ambulance dispatch again, but I'm pretty sure there is a reference made to a second patient.

I think the original ambulance was sent for Trayvon, because of the 911 calls.

That's JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

Everyone please... please... please... pray for our own member here, Reality Orlando, and her daughter Danielle. They've closed the thread and we don't know what is going on. So just please pray!! lease:lease:

 

[lauriej]

Please, help me out with this. I asked before, but I think a lot of people don't see my posts (lol). Can someone please provide the source for this description that is being accepted by posters as fact --> That TM "ran around" or "circled around" GZ's truck, not just once but "three times?"

I have searched MSM; nothing. Searched Google and it only redirects me to WS. A source would be greatly appreciated. TIA

--here's the full 2 hour (plus) hearing.

--if you fast forward past all of george's family (saying how great he is ) you should then get to the SA and his 'part' ..

--( i would find it for you myself but i don't have time right now..)

http://www.wral.com/news/video/11004815/#/vid11004815
--video--full 2 hour bond hearing--

 

[HiHater]

Signing the affidavit was his acknowledgement that the evidence existed not that he, himself, collected it. It's not perjury unless he acknowledged that he was there during testimony and he actually was not. The affidavit was drawn up by a number of detectives, not just one because they all handled different portions. MOM would know that but may not have been aware of which statements were taken by this detective and which were not. jmo

Lack of personal knowledge.—Except as otherwise provided in s. 90.702, a witness may not testify to a matter unless evidence is introduced which is sufficient to support a finding that the witness has personal knowledge of the matter. Evidence to prove personal knowledge may be given by the witness’s own testimony.

I found this, and I think it applies to what you're saying, but I don't know how? lol

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0000-0099/0090/Sections/0090.604.html

 

[rotterdam]

Agreed but if it goes to a trial, IMO the impressions the jury get are important. If they get the notion that one or another of the parties is a criminal it may influence how they weigh the evidence, even if it really had no logical bearing in what happened.

Yep. And that is the reason why previous criminal history is often not disclosed to the jury ,.

 

[Cher352]

The state never talked to GZ before charging him. Obviously, it wasn't necessary based on other info/evidence they obtained.

I think they didn't really bother looking at a lot of things. It was a done deal that GZ was going to be charged as soon as Gov. Scott got involved and had Corey take over the case.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Everyone please... please... please... pray for our own member here, Reality Orlando, and her daughter Danielle. They've closed the thread and we don't know what is going on. So just please pray!! lease:lease:

The Missing person report concerning Danielle Davis is cancelled. She is safe and in good health. More »

Entered: 18 minutes ago

http://www.denvillepolice.org/home.htm

 

[joypath]

I saw it referenced earlier, but can someone actually verbally deny going to the hospital to an EMT, even if he has injuries that an EMT thinks warrants hospital care? Also, I've never heard of two ambulances being needed to treat one patient. Could it be the 2nd ambulance was cancelled because it was meant for TM and TM was deemed...deceased?

From the radio transmission: the second unit was cancelled since the "other" patient wasn't a GSW. The first unit's team assessed & pronounced patient #1 and treated & cleared for SPD transport & custody, patient #2

using my memory, so JMO

 

[Desdemona]

I don't know if this has been noticed and posted by someone else / but I would add from listening to the tape from my earlier posting at 167 that: As I was listening to some background sounds on the Zimmerman tape him fidgeting with his pistol? Because right after the operator says 'Alright, George / what is your last name?' - (then what sounds like slide of pistol cocking) @ 7:12:14:25. He then replies and says 'Zimmerman'. the very next thing (he swears a lot doesn't he?) he says is '$hi* no..' Then I hear what sounds like him hitting the bottom of the magazine three times with the palm of his hand... (this same sound is also repeated) Not sure any of this matters....it probably was just his loose magazine. This is time-stamped at @ 7:12:14:25 from the 911 tape I linked at 167. (George Zimmerman Police Call w. Time Stamps and Notes - YouTube)

I hear the dispatcher typing in the info as GZ is providing it. The times of the clicking sounds line up with the times on the call log, IMO.

 

[badme102]

I can't wait to get my eyes and ears on these statements! I think we might all understand why he has been charged once we get them!

1) TM was on top of GZ beating his head into the pavement
2) TM was on top of GZ covering his mouth and nose with 'all his weight'
3) After GZ shot TM, GZ lunged at TM and put him face down on the ground

Which one is it? It certainly can't be all of them.

**How can GZ yell for help (which I don't believe for a second), with his mouth and nose being covered with all of TM's weight?

**If GZ shot TM while TM was on top of him on the ground (smashing his head into the pavement), how is possible that he lunged at him after the shooting?

**If GZ shot TM while TM was on top of him on the ground (smashing his head into the pavement), how did GZ not have one single drop of TM's blood on him? (from being in such close proximity during said shooting)

**If TM supposedly beat GZ to a bloody pulp (so badly that he was one hit away from wearing depends ), why didn't TM have any marks, scratches, bruising or such on his hands?

 

[Desdemona]

Personally myself, I'm sick of all the SPECIAL treatment he is receiving thus far. It's ridiculous and it's disgusting. A suit to his bail hearing, his family being able to call in their testimony (in which every single one of them lied), his being allowed to leave the state of Florida while out on bail. I so can't wait for this case to get to trial where they will finally bury this self-serving and utterly disgusting man. He makes me physically ill to look at him and to have to listen to him.~jmo~

I, too feel physically ill. There is much, much more IMO surrounding this case to cause a reaction of disgust and nausea, than GZ being allowed his rights by the court system. The exploitation that has run rampant, the extreme prejudice, the dissimulation knowingly spread by media and others, and the utter hatred and disregard for objectivity which I've seen... I find it very sickening myself. JMO

<BBM> None of us is forced to look at or listen to GZ if we choose not to. For instance, I choose not to look at or listen to Crump or Taafe. Just saying. JMO

 

[Nova]

But yesterday was a bond hearing. What they are saying doesn't make sense. What is said in a hearing is not the same as what is said in trial. You can't cross examine someone for what they said in a hearing. Yesterday wasn't a deposition of the investigator, just some questions asked at a bond hearing. Hearings are separate from trials. What is said in hearing, I believe, can't be used against the same person who testifies at a trial. Hearings may affect what happens in a courtroom, but what is said in a hearing, as far as I know, can't be used to contradict someone at trial. These talking heads do not know what they are talking about.

Now, O'Mara could do a deposition of this investigator, and if he gives the same answers in that deposition, that could then be questioned at trial. Hearings are separate from the actual trial. The Casey Anthony juries had no clue about what kind and how many hearings there were before trial. The jurors in this trial aren't going have any clue either. What matters is what is said in depositions and in the trial itself.

Do we have a legal thread for this case? Because I am really confused about this and how it could come back to hurt the investigator at trial.

IANAL, but I believe you are wrong. Anything said under oath can be used later to impeach a witness.

But I think people are overreacting to an investigator's testimony as to what evidence the state has. If there is additional evidence, it can be disclosed to the defense at a later date and then presented at trial. If the defense mentions the hearing testimony, then the investigator will say he didn't know all the evidence the SA had. It won't make him look good, but it isn't necessarily fatal to the State's case.

This is NOT imo the same thing as the defendant changing his account of the shooting. He was there. Presumably he knows what occurred. Inconsistencies in his account are something very different from an investigator not knowing everything his team is doing.

 

[Donjeta]

Has it been confirmed that there was not a drop of TM's blood on GZ?

 

[SuziQ]

Yep, and the TH's aren't talking about that, are they? Oh no, one statement from the officer is making this case done for. Please. Talk about throwing out a red herring to deflect from GZ's changing stories. That's all this is.

I think Mom is very clever and good at what he does. He knows exactly how to make an answer appear pro defendant even when the answer is anything but that. It's a parlor game and many jurors will not see through that.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

BBM

That's where my mindset is different. This isn't a game to me, I'm not rooting for one side or the other. I'm rooting for justice. If justice determines one's innocence or guilt, so be it. There are plenty of innocent people in jail today who have no business being there. It's not always about who's the defendant and who's the victim, it's about what the truth is.

BBM

I agree. And the undisputed truth is that: 1) GZ created a hostile environment, 2) GZ decided to bring a loaded gun to a situation involving someone he profiled as a "kid", 3) TM was trying to avoid GZ (per GZ and the girlfriend), and 4) GZ killed TM.

 

[Desdemona]

THe jury selection might be very difficult here.

Or anywhere, JMO.

 

[SuziQ]

O'Mara claimed to have the medical record in court yesterday and waved them in the air!

And??? The state is not disputing the injuries. The state is saying that the injuries do not match the the crime scene and GZ's various versions of the event. Mom is distracting from anything that is negative towards GZ. He's saying "Look here, not there!!!"